You think YOU got issues in your country :biggrin:

[Chilloutman]

nah, why would anyone want to bother with multiculturalism if society he lives in is perfectly happy the way it is? If you dont want to belong to that community than just dont move in, its that simple

[BruceVC]

nah, why would anyone want to bother with multiculturalism if society he lives in is perfectly happy the way it is? If you dont want to belong to that community than just dont move in, its that simple

Yes but to be honest thats not what your country decided, it joined the EU and the EU is about multiculturalism

 

So eventually it will come to your country, this is a good thing by the way. Its nothing to be worried about  

[Chilloutman]

 

nah, why would anyone want to bother with multiculturalism if society he lives in is perfectly happy the way it is? If you dont want to belong to that community than just dont move in, its that simple

Yes but to be honest thats not what your country decided, it joined the EU and the EU is about multiculturalism

 

So eventually it will come to your country, this is a good thing by the way. Its nothing to be worried about

 

well maybe thats reason why EU is failing and some states want to get out. It was never been supposed to be some social engineering project which it is becoming now. So sad, it could have been really great project many Europeans hoped for

[BruceVC]

 

 

nah, why would anyone want to bother with multiculturalism if society he lives in is perfectly happy the way it is? If you dont want to belong to that community than just dont move in, its that simple

Yes but to be honest thats not what your country decided, it joined the EU and the EU is about multiculturalism

 

So eventually it will come to your country, this is a good thing by the way. Its nothing to be worried about

 

well maybe thats reason why EU is failing and some states want to get out. It was never been supposed to be some social engineering project which it is becoming now. So sad, it could have been really great project many Europeans hoped for

 

No the EU is evolving exactly the way it is suppose to, I know many of you guys feel this is not what you signed up for 

 

But funny enough in order for the EU to survive events like these Syrian refugees will occur...and this will actually make you stronger

 

Without going into too much political and economic detail you should try to see its not possible for the worlds most successful and financially strong union of countries, the EU, that is admired by millions of people who would love to immigrate there that you won't face events like the Syrian refugees

 

I know it probably seems like things are out of control but this is just an evolution around the structure of the EU and I can promise you culture will always sustain itself

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

nah, why would anyone want to bother with multiculturalism if society he lives in is perfectly happy the way it is? If you dont want to belong to that community than just dont move in, its that simple

Yes but to be honest thats not what your country decided, it joined the EU and the EU is about multiculturalism

 

So eventually it will come to your country, this is a good thing by the way. Its nothing to be worried about

 

well maybe thats reason why EU is failing and some states want to get out. It was never been supposed to be some social engineering project which it is becoming now. So sad, it could have been really great project many Europeans hoped for

 

No the EU is evolving exactly the way it is suppose to, I know many of you guys feel this is not what you signed up for 

 

But funny enough in order for the EU to survive events like these Syrian refugees will occur...and this will actually make you stronger

 

Without going into too much political and economic detail you should try to see its not possible for the worlds most successful and financially strong union of countries, the EU, that is admired by millions of people who would love to immigrate there that you won't face events like the Syrian refugees

 

I know it probably seems like things are out of control but this is just an evolution around the structure of the EU and I can promise you culture will always sustain itself

 

yeah like romans, man please keep your multi world in SA and dont force it on people who dont want it. I have better things to do than debate on radio about things i take as granted because some immigrant dont feel enough as at home

Edited January 6, 2016 by Chilloutman

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

nah, why would anyone want to bother with multiculturalism if society he lives in is perfectly happy the way it is? If you dont want to belong to that community than just dont move in, its that simple

Yes but to be honest thats not what your country decided, it joined the EU and the EU is about multiculturalism

 

So eventually it will come to your country, this is a good thing by the way. Its nothing to be worried about

 

well maybe thats reason why EU is failing and some states want to get out. It was never been supposed to be some social engineering project which it is becoming now. So sad, it could have been really great project many Europeans hoped for

 

No the EU is evolving exactly the way it is suppose to, I know many of you guys feel this is not what you signed up for 

 

But funny enough in order for the EU to survive events like these Syrian refugees will occur...and this will actually make you stronger

 

Without going into too much political and economic detail you should try to see its not possible for the worlds most successful and financially strong union of countries, the EU, that is admired by millions of people who would love to immigrate there that you won't face events like the Syrian refugees

 

I know it probably seems like things are out of control but this is just an evolution around the structure of the EU and I can promise you culture will always sustain itself

 

yeah like romans, man please keep your multi world in SA and dont force it on people who dont want it. I have better things to do than debate on radio about things i take as granted because some immigrant dont feel enough as at home

 

I'm not forcing anything on you, I am just explaining the reality of what it means to belong to the EU

 

And once again this is a good thing even if you don't see it like that now

[Chilloutman]

maybe it is reality of EU now but as I stated it was not its purpose. And even if you think its good (and I see why because of place you come from). But I guarantee you that if you live there for a year or so you would not see any need of SJW here

[Darkpriest]

EU at its core was about economic freedoms and it was an economic project because increasing overall wealth and making the economy tie together various countries was suppoused to prevent social unrests and prevent future military conflicts among European countries. In short, no more breeding ground for a second hitler. The social engineering came with left wing ideologies thinking that we should share this walefare and civilized conditions with those poor people from other parts of.the world. And this is slowly leading towards destruction of EU and will most likely.lead to major unrests and possibly military conflicts within 80-140 years on the EU mainland.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

EU at its core was about economic freedoms and it was an economic project because increasing overall wealth and making the economy tie together various countries was suppoused to prevent social unrests and prevent future military conflicts among European countries. In short, no more breeding ground for a second hitler. The social engineering came with left wing ideologies thinking that we should share this walefare and civilized conditions with those poor people from other parts of.the world. And this is slowly leading towards destruction of EU and will most likely.lead to major unrests and possibly military conflicts within 80-140 years on the EU mainland.

The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut.

 

But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard.

[Gfted1]

Maybe we can tap the brakes on the derogatory terms for other nationalities?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

But anyway I don't get involved in SJ movements on the Internet anymore, they are waste of time IMO as most of the time its about various "SJ" groups criticizing gamers and suddenly expecting gamers to support changes to games that they don't even design...so why attack the gamers, who also happen to be mostly white, males. So to me it just seemed like a underhanded way to attack white people for no reason.

 

 

 

Way to go, feed their victim complex s'more, Bruce... good job 

[Darkpriest]

 

EU at its core was about economic freedoms and it was an economic project because increasing overall wealth and making the economy tie together various countries was suppoused to prevent social unrests and prevent future military conflicts among European countries. In short, no more breeding ground for a second hitler. The social engineering came with left wing ideologies thinking that we should share this walefare and civilized conditions with those poor people from other parts of.the world. And this is slowly leading towards destruction of EU and will most likely.lead to major unrests and possibly military conflicts within 80-140 years on the EU mainland.

The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut.

 

But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard.

 

 

If greek would not lie about their statistics, and would have less governmental sector and social spending in the first place, there would not be the greek crisis as you see it.

 

There is no other than stupid people believing populist governments to run their countries. if you borrow money at some point you have to pay them back.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm talking about reality, not hypotheticals. And reality is that through austerity Greece is now in a situation where it can't pay off its debt. The future for Greece is one of declining standard of living in the short term and the migration of Greeks to low wage jobs throughout Europe and the rise of an extremist government.

[BruceVC]

 

EU at its core was about economic freedoms and it was an economic project because increasing overall wealth and making the economy tie together various countries was suppoused to prevent social unrests and prevent future military conflicts among European countries. In short, no more breeding ground for a second hitler. The social engineering came with left wing ideologies thinking that we should share this walefare and civilized conditions with those poor people from other parts of.the world. And this is slowly leading towards destruction of EU and will most likely.lead to major unrests and possibly military conflicts within 80-140 years on the EU mainland.

The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut.

 

But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard.

 

KP I don't mean to criticize you but this view you have of Greece being bullied and somehow being the victim in the whole EU austerity measures concerns me immensely because I don't understand why you can believe that, I know you and I have argued about this in the past and I was hoping someone else would engage with you because I cant seem to convince you why the EU Troika was and is correct to enforce austerity

 

But I would like  to debate this again with you if you want to? And the irony is I do want you to have a positive view of the EU  which is why I want you to get the right information so I'm not doing this to prove I know more than you 

[BruceVC]

 

 

EU at its core was about economic freedoms and it was an economic project because increasing overall wealth and making the economy tie together various countries was suppoused to prevent social unrests and prevent future military conflicts among European countries. In short, no more breeding ground for a second hitler. The social engineering came with left wing ideologies thinking that we should share this walefare and civilized conditions with those poor people from other parts of.the world. And this is slowly leading towards destruction of EU and will most likely.lead to major unrests and possibly military conflicts within 80-140 years on the EU mainland.

The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut.

 

But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard.

 

 

If greek would not lie about their statistics, and would have less governmental sector and social spending in the first place, there would not be the greek crisis as you see it.

 

There is no other than stupid people believing populist governments to run their countries. if you borrow money at some point you have to pay them back.

 

Thank God there is someone on this thread who is also prepared to support me in helping KP see a different view .....

[Darkpriest]

I'm talking about reality, not hypotheticals. And reality is that through austerity Greece is now in a situation where it can't pay off its debt. The future for Greece is one of declining standard of living in the short term and the migration of Greeks to low wage jobs throughout Europe and the rise of an extremist government.

 

Reality is, that they dug their own grave themselves. now they just have to pay off the debt. Take it as a form of punishment for being "edgy" enough to avoid paying taxes and milking public money.

 

I still remember the funny view when like almost every house had a metal pipe sticking out to prove a point that it is still under construction or some such and they did not pay the full property tax (that was Crete 14 years ago).

 

After all thieves who get caught get to prison and ruin their lives, same goes for Greeks who thought they are too smart for anyone to find out about their lies.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Darkpriest

[Chilloutman]

now I am starting to picture Bruce in real life like Angela for some twisted reason

[Orogun01]

I'm talking about reality, not hypotheticals. And reality is that through austerity Greece is now in a situation where it can't pay off its debt. The future for Greece is one of declining standard of living in the short term and the migration of Greeks to low wage jobs throughout Europe and the rise of an extremist government.

I agree on the point that austerity is a bad solution to Greece debt but OTOH they mishandled their loans more than once so that now they ****ed themselves up. A short term solution would be to engage in Communism where the state provides the populace while paying off the debt, but that would never work  because it would impossible to get that many people to share the same goal. Nope, Greece has ****ed itself up and like other European countries I wish them luck in their descent into far right politics and I'll see them in WWIII.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I'm talking about reality, not hypotheticals. And reality is that through austerity Greece is now in a situation where it can't pay off its debt. The future for Greece is one of declining standard of living in the short term and the migration of Greeks to low wage jobs throughout Europe and the rise of an extremist government.

 

 

Reality is, that they dug their own grave themselves. now they just have to pay off the debt. Take it as a form of punishment for being "edgy" enough to avoid paying taxes and milking public money.

 

I still remember the funny view when like almost every house had a metal pipe sticking out to prove a point that it is still under construction or some such and they did not pay the full property tax (that was Crete 14 years ago).

 

After all thieves who get caught get to prison and ruin their lives, same goes for Greeks who thought they are too smart for anyone to find out about their lies.

And they are now in a situation where they can't pay off the debt. As it is they are in a situation where they will be continually bailed out by the EU while their state owned utilities are bought up by private owners. If you've got an argument on how Greece is going to pay off their debt in a depressed economy, make it instead of repeating the same thing.

 

 

 

EU at its core was about economic freedoms and it was an economic project because increasing overall wealth and making the economy tie together various countries was suppoused to prevent social unrests and prevent future military conflicts among European countries. In short, no more breeding ground for a second hitler. The social engineering came with left wing ideologies thinking that we should share this walefare and civilized conditions with those poor people from other parts of.the world. And this is slowly leading towards destruction of EU and will most likely.lead to major unrests and possibly military conflicts within 80-140 years on the EU mainland.

 

The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut.

But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard.

KP I don't mean to criticize you but this view you have of Greece being bullied and somehow being the victim in the whole EU austerity measures concerns me immensely because I don't understand why you can believe that, I know you and I have argued about this in the past and I was hoping someone else would engage with you because I cant seem to convince you why the EU Troika was and is correct to enforce austerity

 

But I would like  to debate this again with you if you want to? And the irony is I do want you to have a positive view of the EU  which is why I want you to get the right information so I'm not doing this to prove I know more than you

Bruce the last time we had this argument you just said austerity is good and we should ignore unemployment or wage stagnation. When pressed you couldn't back this up and repeated yourself without providing any sort of proof or an argument. If you can make a coherent argument I'll be convinced, but judging from your track record on this forum you'll fail to convince me and convince others I'm right.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I'm talking about reality, not hypotheticals. And reality is that through austerity Greece is now in a situation where it can't pay off its debt. The future for Greece is one of declining standard of living in the short term and the migration of Greeks to low wage jobs throughout Europe and the rise of an extremist government.

 

I agree on the point that austerity is a bad solution to Greece debt but OTOH they mishandled their loans more than once so that now they ****ed themselves up. A short term solution would be to engage in Communism where the state provides the populace while paying off the debt, but that would never work  because it would impossible to get that many people to share the same goal. Nope, Greece has ****ed itself up and like other European countries I wish them luck in their descent into far right politics and I'll see them in WWIII.

The best short-term solution would have been a fiscal policy aimed at economic growth and using the later surplus(es) to pay off the debt when the Greek economy could handle austerity. In it's current form all austerity does is depress the Greek economy and actually prevents them from paying off their debt in a sustainable manner. It's funny how the EU is creating the conditions for another fascist regime(s) despite being created to prevent that.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

After all thieves who get caught get to prison and ruin their lives, same goes for Greeks who thought they are too smart for anyone to find out about their lies.

 

 

I take it you're not big on Blackstone's formulation.

[BruceVC]

 

 

But anyway I don't get involved in SJ movements on the Internet anymore, they are waste of time IMO as most of the time its about various "SJ" groups criticizing gamers and suddenly expecting gamers to support changes to games that they don't even design...so why attack the gamers, who also happen to be mostly white, males. So to me it just seemed like a underhanded way to attack white people for no reason.

 

 

 

Way to go, feed their victim complex s'more, Bruce... good job 

 

You know you are one of the very few people on this forum who somehow can make me feel guilty about somethings I post 

 

I know you and people like Baro also supported anti-GG but for me I truly believed the Anita and Leigh story about women being victimized in the gaming industry and objectified in games ....

 

But the truth is SJ is not about generalizing about whole groups of people....that cannot be right. I still support Zoe Quinn, that was wrong but end of the day I realized what GG was actually about and I realized I had been manipulated 

 

You had Anita ,who like me ,came from the real world of SJ issues and for some reason decided to focus on gaming. Now when I say " real world of SJ issues "  this is not meant to say we are superior but you learn how to do certain things to effectively raise SJ  issues in a meaningful way that most  people want to generally support. Businesses and corporations always like to support things like womens rights and to be seen to be on the good side of society

 

So Anita took this ability and really turned it on the gaming industry, with  people like Leigh and then the real abuse of Zoe  they suddenly created a " crisis "  that had disastrous and unexpected consequences. Many people like me immediately sided with them  but websites like Polygon fundamentally decided they would champion this cause and ended up not even being able to review a game without ensuring it met " SJ standards" .....I mean WTF. Then you had all those San Francisco developers who signed there loyalty to anti-GG. Now the reality of SJ in RL is gay rights  campaigners  are generally nice people who will always support other SJ causes like abuse of women. Anita knew  this so it would have been easy for her  to get people who live in a liberal area like that to assume women really were being abused by all these " legions of white, male gamers " . 

 

Now I feel embarrassed that I was conned so quickly but my excuse is I live in a country where due to our past you really can't say " I'm a white male and I feel victimized " and expect anyone to take it seriously. So I just didn't see that outside of South Africa white, males could really feel victims of unfair discrimination...but of course why can't they?

 

So now you had this organised movement with proper support from within and outside the gaming industry who believed this was valid campaign to protect womens rights. It was organised as if it was fighting a RL example of SJ abuse, the media and universities got behind Anita and even Hollywood and CNN were behind them..

 

And who was this terrible enemy that needed to be subdued ....who was this diabolical monster....drumroll....oh thats right it was white, male gamers !!!! Lets be honest if you take just the people on this forum who supported GG none of them are sexist or think less of women. They are same people they have always been, they not sales people or people who are  necessarily extroverted confident public speakers and there is nothing wrong with that. But suddenly they are being told " you either with us or you dont respect women " ....there only real crime is loving playing games but that became a issue for Anita 

 

And yes certain members in GG really didn't help and in fact they reacted in exactly the way that would have worked best for Anita. They withdrew into this community that allowed them now to easily be labelled and then GG lashed out in the only way they knew how ...using the Internet. Then it got really " nasty" , you had doxxing, feminists,  SJW and people being threatened and then the line was drawn and you had these irreconcilable differences and two sides   who both thought they had the moral high ground but in fact had been manipulated into this " fight " 

 

When I went back and read the original Leigh letter I suddenly realized you could substitute " white, gamers" with " women, african american, jew, gay person "  whatever and that type of generalization would never have been allowed yet it was for " white gamers"

 

That is wrong and I knew I had been fooled ...and what was the outcome? GG could never have won, in fact they had lost right from the beginning because Anita knew how to get support from the real world but the reality is there is now this schism in an industry that didn't really need the actual gamers to fight it out

 

So thats what I meant  

[BruceVC]

 

 

I'm talking about reality, not hypotheticals. And reality is that through austerity Greece is now in a situation where it can't pay off its debt. The future for Greece is one of declining standard of living in the short term and the migration of Greeks to low wage jobs throughout Europe and the rise of an extremist government.

I agree on the point that austerity is a bad solution to Greece debt but OTOH they mishandled their loans more than once so that now they ****ed themselves up. A short term solution would be to engage in Communism where the state provides the populace while paying off the debt, but that would never work  because it would impossible to get that many people to share the same goal. Nope, Greece has ****ed itself up and like other European countries I wish them luck in their descent into far right politics and I'll see them in WWIII.

The best short-term solution would have been a fiscal policy aimed at economic growth and using the later surplus(es) to pay off the debt when the Greek economy could handle austerity. In it's current form all austerity does is depress the Greek economy and actually prevents them from paying off their debt in a sustainable manner. It's funny how the EU is creating the conditions for another fascist regime(s) despite being created to prevent that.

 

 

 

 

I'm talking about reality, not hypotheticals. And reality is that through austerity Greece is now in a situation where it can't pay off its debt. The future for Greece is one of declining standard of living in the short term and the migration of Greeks to low wage jobs throughout Europe and the rise of an extremist government.

 

Reality is, that they dug their own grave themselves. now they just have to pay off the debt. Take it as a form of punishment for being "edgy" enough to avoid paying taxes and milking public money.

 

I still remember the funny view when like almost every house had a metal pipe sticking out to prove a point that it is still under construction or some such and they did not pay the full property tax (that was Crete 14 years ago).

 

After all thieves who get caught get to prison and ruin their lives, same goes for Greeks who thought they are too smart for anyone to find out about their lies.

And they are now in a situation where they can't pay off the debt. As it is they are in a situation where they will be continually bailed out by the EU while their state owned utilities are bought up by private owners. If you've got an argument on how Greece is going to pay off their debt in a depressed economy, make it instead of repeating the same thing.

 

 

 

EU at its core was about economic freedoms and it was an economic project because increasing overall wealth and making the economy tie together various countries was suppoused to prevent social unrests and prevent future military conflicts among European countries. In short, no more breeding ground for a second hitler. The social engineering came with left wing ideologies thinking that we should share this walefare and civilized conditions with those poor people from other parts of.the world. And this is slowly leading towards destruction of EU and will most likely.lead to major unrests and possibly military conflicts within 80-140 years on the EU mainland.

The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut.

But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard.

KP I don't mean to criticize you but this view you have of Greece being bullied and somehow being the victim in the whole EU austerity measures concerns me immensely because I don't understand why you can believe that, I know you and I have argued about this in the past and I was hoping someone else would engage with you because I cant seem to convince you why the EU Troika was and is correct to enforce austerity

 

But I would like  to debate this again with you if you want to? And the irony is I do want you to have a positive view of the EU  which is why I want you to get the right information so I'm not doing this to prove I know more than you

Bruce the last time we had this argument you just said austerity is good and we should ignore unemployment or wage stagnation. When pressed you couldn't back this up and repeated yourself without providing any sort of proof or an argument. If you can make a coherent argument I'll be convinced, but judging from your track record on this forum you'll fail to convince me and convince others I'm right.

 

Yes I will be less critical and make less assumptions this time, I just need a break after my long GG post

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I know you and people like Baro also supported anti-GG but for me I truly believed the Anita and Leigh story about women being victimized in the gaming industry and objectified in games ....

 

But the truth is SJ is not about generalizing about whole groups of people....that cannot be right. I still support Zoe Quinn, that was wrong but end of the day I realized what GG was actually about and I realized I had been manipulated 

 

You had Anita ,who like me ,came from the real world of SJ issues and for some reason decided to focus on gaming. Now when I say " real world of SJ issues "  this is not meant to say we are superior but you learn how to do certain things to effectively raise SJ  issues in a meaningful way that most  people want to generally support. Businesses and corporations always like to support things like womens rights and to be seen to be on the good side of society

 

So Anita took this ability and really turned it on the gaming industry, with  people like Leigh and then the real abuse of Zoe  they suddenly created a " crisis "  that had disastrous and unexpected consequences. Many people like me immediately sided with them  but websites like Polygon fundamentally decided they would champion this cause and ended up not even being able to review a game without ensuring it met " SJ standards" .....I mean WTF. Then you had all those San Francisco developers who signed there loyalty to anti-GG. Now the reality of SJ in RL is gay rights  campaigners  are generally nice people who will always support other SJ causes like abuse of women. Anita knew  this so it would have been easy for her  to get people who live in a liberal area like that to assume women really were being abused by all these " legions of white, male gamers " . 

 

Now I feel embarrassed that I was conned so quickly but my excuse is I live in a country where due to our past you really can't say " I'm a white male and I feel victimized " and expect anyone to take it seriously. So I just didn't see that outside of South Africa white, males could really feel victims of unfair discrimination...but of course why can't they?

 

So now you had this organised movement with proper support from within and outside the gaming industry who believed this was valid campaign to protect womens rights. It was organised as if it was fighting a RL example of SJ abuse, the media and universities got behind Anita and even Hollywood and CNN were behind them..

 

And who was this terrible enemy that needed to be subdued ....who was this diabolical monster....drumroll....oh thats right it was white, male gamers !!!! Lets be honest if you take just the people on this forum who supported GG none of them are sexist or think less of women. They are same people they have always been, they not sales people or people who are  necessarily extroverted confident public speakers and there is nothing wrong with that. But suddenly they are being told " you either with us or you dont respect women " ....there only real crime is loving playing games but that became a issue for Anita 

 

And yes certain members in GG really didn't help and in fact they reacted in exactly the way that would have worked best for Anita. They withdrew into this community that allowed them now to easily be labelled and then GG lashed out in the only way they knew how ...using the Internet. Then it got really " nasty" , you had doxxing, feminists,  SJW and people being threatened and then the line was drawn and you had these irreconcilable differences and two sides   who both thought they had the moral high ground but in fact had been manipulated into this " fight " 

 

When I went back and read the original Leigh letter I suddenly realized you could substitute " white, gamers" with " women, african american, jew, gay person "  whatever and that type of generalization would never have been allowed yet it was for " white gamers"

 

 

 

None of what you just said makes one iota of sense or is rooted in reality. At all.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I know you and people like Baro also supported anti-GG but for me I truly believed the Anita and Leigh story about women being victimized in the gaming industry and objectified in games ....

 

But the truth is SJ is not about generalizing about whole groups of people....that cannot be right. I still support Zoe Quinn, that was wrong but end of the day I realized what GG was actually about and I realized I had been manipulated 

 

You had Anita ,who like me ,came from the real world of SJ issues and for some reason decided to focus on gaming. Now when I say " real world of SJ issues "  this is not meant to say we are superior but you learn how to do certain things to effectively raise SJ  issues in a meaningful way that most  people want to generally support. Businesses and corporations always like to support things like womens rights and to be seen to be on the good side of society

 

So Anita took this ability and really turned it on the gaming industry, with  people like Leigh and then the real abuse of Zoe  they suddenly created a " crisis "  that had disastrous and unexpected consequences. Many people like me immediately sided with them  but websites like Polygon fundamentally decided they would champion this cause and ended up not even being able to review a game without ensuring it met " SJ standards" .....I mean WTF. Then you had all those San Francisco developers who signed there loyalty to anti-GG. Now the reality of SJ in RL is gay rights  campaigners  are generally nice people who will always support other SJ causes like abuse of women. Anita knew  this so it would have been easy for her  to get people who live in a liberal area like that to assume women really were being abused by all these " legions of white, male gamers " . 

 

Now I feel embarrassed that I was conned so quickly but my excuse is I live in a country where due to our past you really can't say " I'm a white male and I feel victimized " and expect anyone to take it seriously. So I just didn't see that outside of South Africa white, males could really feel victims of unfair discrimination...but of course why can't they?

 

So now you had this organised movement with proper support from within and outside the gaming industry who believed this was valid campaign to protect womens rights. It was organised as if it was fighting a RL example of SJ abuse, the media and universities got behind Anita and even Hollywood and CNN were behind them..

 

And who was this terrible enemy that needed to be subdued ....who was this diabolical monster....drumroll....oh thats right it was white, male gamers !!!! Lets be honest if you take just the people on this forum who supported GG none of them are sexist or think less of women. They are same people they have always been, they not sales people or people who are  necessarily extroverted confident public speakers and there is nothing wrong with that. But suddenly they are being told " you either with us or you dont respect women " ....there only real crime is loving playing games but that became a issue for Anita 

 

And yes certain members in GG really didn't help and in fact they reacted in exactly the way that would have worked best for Anita. They withdrew into this community that allowed them now to easily be labelled and then GG lashed out in the only way they knew how ...using the Internet. Then it got really " nasty" , you had doxxing, feminists,  SJW and people being threatened and then the line was drawn and you had these irreconcilable differences and two sides   who both thought they had the moral high ground but in fact had been manipulated into this " fight " 

 

When I went back and read the original Leigh letter I suddenly realized you could substitute " white, gamers" with " women, african american, jew, gay person "  whatever and that type of generalization would never have been allowed yet it was for " white gamers"

 

 

 

None of what you just said makes one iota of sense or is rooted in reality. At all.

 

Okay well you are entitled to your opinion, so you think white, gamers really were a problem? Maybe summarize what I said that you dont agree with ?

 

Sorry you also got manipulated but you werent alone