Attacks in Paris

[Amentep]

I watch it from CNN and Fox News, not the media of my country. It come from your source, not mine. Through internet i can see everything, from videos, Islamophobia is bad and real. i see western peoples harrasing Muslims, bombing mosque with molotov coctail or something, stoning mosque, giving verbal abuse, kill a Muslim woman in a court...ect ect...Americans making rallies and shouting against islam and Muslims....draw a Mohamad day....

 

Some in the USA tend to rally and shout at stuff - even stupid stuff. Its part of the freedom of speech/assembly/association thing.

 

And just because people can do it doesn't mean they're not rejected as silly extremists and dismissed by the larger population.  But understand just because we allow someone to act a fool in public doesn't mean we condone foolishness.  It may seem a subtle distinction, but it is a distinction.

 

No such thing done by Muslims in my country toward peoples of other faith, we go to school together, eating at the same table, working together, we have companies where Muslims working with Christian/Hindu/Buddhist bosses...Christians/Buddhists/Hindus take place in the government as ministers, they also can become candidates in elections

 

Treatment toward Muslims are bad in the west

 

You may choose not to believe it, the vast majority of people do the same thing here where I live in the USA. People of different faiths aren't segregated from the public schools.  We work together. In fact my first job ever I was hired by a Muslim woman. Later, after I completed my degree she hired me again and that set me on the path to my current job. 

 

She's retired now - and I miss having her as a colleague - but if she, her husband or one of her children were to say they needed my help, I'd give it to them without question.

[Sakai]

 

 

love to label other peoples

Isn't it exactly what you're doing right now too? 

 

 

If the west don't start it, i won't

 

That's a weak excuse for labeling hundreds of millions of people. 

[FlintlockJazz]

I know it's no comfort, but western girls are just as much victims of fictive "ideals". The fashion industry is a real killer. If curious, try looking up anorexia and suicide rates, cyber bullying, etc. The "western world" is a lot more brutal and cruel than most people give it credit for, not just against other people, but in particular it's own people.

 

Edit to add: It's not all bad of course, but the trick is to adopt the good parts and discard the bad parts and then determine your own way

I want to second this for what it's worth.  You got to remember that the media is trying to 'sell' you an ideal, one that usually has very little to do with reality.  While you (Qistina) was trying to be 'white' over here in the UK you got women putting on fake tan or using sunbeds to give themselves a 'healthy' tan (and skin cancer).  As Gorth mentioned the fashion industry is driving anorexia and low body image.  This happens anywhere, if it wasn't Western media it would just be someone elses.  The key is finding the ideals you want, not what they want to sell you, and to not let them drive a wedge between people, it's the guys at the top you need to detach yourself from, not others from other cultures are in the same boat you are (a colleague had a saying that I feel is appropriate, "Oppression begins at home", those nations that are oppressing people start off oppressing their own people first), and we need to do the same thing, not let them twist our perceptions to suit their agenda.

[Qistina]

 

 

 

love to label other peoples

Isn't it exactly what you're doing right now too? 

 

 

If the west don't start it, i won't

 

That's a weak excuse for labeling hundreds of millions of people. 

 

 

Really? How about hundereds of millions and millions others the west have portrayed as savages, barbarians, terrorists, and millions who killed and sold as slaves by western colonizations and war on terror?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Qistina

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

 

 

love to label other peoples

Isn't it exactly what you're doing right now too? 

 

 

If the west don't start it, i won't

 

That's a weak excuse for labeling hundreds of millions of people. 

 

 

Really? How about hundereds of millions and millions others the west have portrayed as savages, barbarians, terrorists, and millions who killed and sold as slaves by western colonizations and war on terror?

 

Don't believe the media portrayal, they love to put things in a way that stirs **** up.  I live in the UK, most people I know don't think of muslims like that, on the contrary most of the debates I see are about how the media is lying to us or how it's all about the oil, or how the government is trying to drag us into yet another war. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by FlintlockJazz

[Mamoulian War]

Qistina. That's what our politician wants other to do, our prime minister yesterday said, that all muslims should be monitored here without any police warrant, because the terrorists are muslims.

 

BUT, very big but. He is an ****. Big ****. Half of my country is ashamed of him, the second half admires him, because they have never met a muslim person in their life. I am lucky, that I could travel around the world and meet many muslims/hindus/other christians and Malaysia is on my to visit list as well ). I am ashamed of him as well. Most of the westerners do not want to be associated with **** like him, and believe me, we know most of the muslims do not want to be associated with ISIS.

 

Some people just want to see world polarized. So please do not hate me, and do not judge me, just because some of our politicians are idiots and ****. The politicians like our prime minister want you to hate us all, so they can continue to get more and more power through.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[Sakai]

Really? How about hundereds of millions and millions others the west have portrayed as savages, barbarians, terrorists, and millions who killed and sold as slaves by western colonizations and war on terror?

Is "West" a single entity? Or maybe it's a hive mind? Why are you talking about it as if it's a single person instead of dozens of nations, cultures, religions, ideologies and so on and so forth? My country, Russia, did some terrible things recently too, are you saying i'm to blame for them just because i happen to live here? People here are mostly from "the West". Are you saying they're all terrible too? I mean if this is the case, why are you still here chatting with people you despise? 

Edited November 17, 2015 by Sakai

[Qistina]

 

I watch it from CNN and Fox News, not the media of my country. It come from your source, not mine. Through internet i can see everything, from videos, Islamophobia is bad and real. i see western peoples harrasing Muslims, bombing mosque with molotov coctail or something, stoning mosque, giving verbal abuse, kill a Muslim woman in a court...ect ect...Americans making rallies and shouting against islam and Muslims....draw a Mohamad day....

 

Some in the USA tend to rally and shout at stuff - even stupid stuff. Its part of the freedom of speech/assembly/association thing.

 

And just because people can do it doesn't mean they're not rejected as silly extremists and dismissed by the larger population.  But understand just because we allow someone to act a fool in public doesn't mean we condone foolishness.  It may seem a subtle distinction, but it is a distinction.

 

 

Is this your precious Free Speech? What's the difference between this Free Speech and Muslim mobs shouting "death to America!"? i see no difference there...but the Muslim mobs are portrayed as "terrorists", yours portrayed as "hero of freedom"

 

Edited November 17, 2015 by Qistina

[Mamoulian War]

It's just few nutjobs who wants some attention in the TV, and they gave it to them. That's not me, that's not Sakai, that's not ShadySands, even that's not Volourn :-P

 

We do not judge you because you are muslim, we all here are happy to talk with you, (well maybe not Voulourn, but he's not happy to talk to anyone :-P)

[Amentep]

 

 

I watch it from CNN and Fox News, not the media of my country. It come from your source, not mine. Through internet i can see everything, from videos, Islamophobia is bad and real. i see western peoples harrasing Muslims, bombing mosque with molotov coctail or something, stoning mosque, giving verbal abuse, kill a Muslim woman in a court...ect ect...Americans making rallies and shouting against islam and Muslims....draw a Mohamad day....

 

Some in the USA tend to rally and shout at stuff - even stupid stuff. Its part of the freedom of speech/assembly/association thing.

 

And just because people can do it doesn't mean they're not rejected as silly extremists and dismissed by the larger population.  But understand just because we allow someone to act a fool in public doesn't mean we condone foolishness.  It may seem a subtle distinction, but it is a distinction.

 

 

Is this your precious Free Speech? What's the difference between this Free Speech and Muslim mobs shouting "death to America!"? i see no difference there...but the Muslim mobs are portrayed as "terrorists", yours portrayed as "hero of freedom"

 

 

In America, there is no difference.  People can shout death to America in America anytime they want.  People have burned the flag, and otherwise argued for the death of the country as an entity (isn't this a sport in Texas? ).  As long as its not demonstrably a threat to a specific individual or group, it can't raise to the level of legal action.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Amentep

[Raithe]

I am very tempted to link in John Oliver's response to the Paris attacks and that wonderful speech he gives...  But it's so NSFW that it would probably break forum guidelines.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxh9ZgP7kc

 

So instead you can all follow that outside the forum if you want it.

[Sakai]

NEVER watch Fox News. It's not an accurate represantion of anything, and there're even reports that it can give you brain cancer.

[Qistina]

Well i am only respond here because in early post i saw "religion of peace strikes again" post AND someone talk about my country...i only respond...don't expect you guys don't get respons....

[Gorgon]

People often say things like 'freedom of speech is not a license to slander'. It seems to me they have missed the point. Providing you chose your words carefully enough to avoid a lawsuit, that's exactly what it is.

 

The consequence is that you take the good with the bad. That means putting up with KKK and Nazis marching in the streets and knowing that if there is room for them there will always be room for you to express yourself freely.

 

It's actually quite a beautiful thing. You know the whole 'I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'. I though that was Voltare but google says it's from a book about him 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

I watch it from CNN and Fox News, not the media of my country. It come from your source, not mine. Through internet i can see everything, from videos, Islamophobia is bad and real. i see western peoples harrasing Muslims, bombing mosque with molotov coctail or something, stoning mosque, giving verbal abuse, kill a Muslim woman in a court...ect ect...Americans making rallies and shouting against islam and Muslims....draw a Mohamad day....

 

Some in the USA tend to rally and shout at stuff - even stupid stuff. Its part of the freedom of speech/assembly/association thing.

 

And just because people can do it doesn't mean they're not rejected as silly extremists and dismissed by the larger population.  But understand just because we allow someone to act a fool in public doesn't mean we condone foolishness.  It may seem a subtle distinction, but it is a distinction.

 

 

Is this your precious Free Speech? What's the difference between this Free Speech and Muslim mobs shouting "death to America!"? i see no difference there...but the Muslim mobs are portrayed as "terrorists", yours portrayed as "hero of freedom"

 

 

Whose portraying them as such.  Here at least anyone doing that would be branded a BNP member (British Nationalist Party, basically Nazi racist bastards) and an islamophobe.  All nationalities, ethnicities, and religions have their scum, they also have their good stuff too.  Although it doesn't always work we also have the idea of democracy, while some would argue we still have a long way to go we also have women's rights (and in fact many of the concerns people have about things like the burka is whether it is a sign of oppression to women, it is a debate that is always ongoing), protection for ethnic minorities, etc.  It's not perfect but nowhere is, we all have our good bits and bad, and we are all trying to find our way. 

[Qistina]

NEVER watch Fox News. It's not an accurate represantion of anything, and there're even reports that it can give you brain cancer.

 

I watched CNN, Fox News, Jon Stewart Daily Show and Stephen Colbert the same time...that's how i get the idea of what America really is...

[Qistina]

 

In America, there is no difference.  People can shout death to America in America anytime they want.  People have burned the flag, and otherwise argued for the death of the country as an entity (isn't this a sport in Texas? ).  As long as its not demonstrably a threat to a specific individual or group, it can't raise to the level of legal action.

 

 

Really? But if Muslims in America make rally and shout "Death to America!", bring weapons, burning American flag, drawing your presiden face funnily or even Jesus, burn the Bible...they will get shot by the police isn't it?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Qistina

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

NEVER watch Fox News. It's not an accurate represantion of anything, and there're even reports that it can give you brain cancer.

I watched CNN, Fox News, Jon Stewart Daily Show and Stephen Colbert the same time...that's how i get the idea of what America really is...

Ok, but believe me, Fox News is one of the worst things, which were created in the west in the modern history. I would recommend you to choose some other source instead of this one.

[Mamoulian War]

Well i am only respond here because in early post i saw "religion of peace strikes again" post AND someone talk about my country...i only respond...don't expect you guys don't get respons....

And we are happy to discuss about it with you, because we want to show you, that not every westerner is islamophobic idiot spewing bile about your religion.

[Qistina]

Whose portraying them as such.  Here at least anyone doing that would be branded a BNP member (British Nationalist Party, basically Nazi racist bastards) and an islamophobe.  All nationalities, ethnicities, and religions have their scum, they also have their good stuff too.  Although it doesn't always work we also have the idea of democracy, while some would argue we still have a long way to go we also have women's rights (and in fact many of the concerns people have about things like the burka is whether it is a sign of oppression to women, it is a debate that is always ongoing), protection for ethnic minorities, etc.  It's not perfect but nowhere is, we all have our good bits and bad, and we are all trying to find our way. 

 

 

What you have, my country have it too, we have parliament, political parties, we are democracy, we have women rights, women rights movements, now even LGBT movement, we have liberal movement, Islamic movement, nationalist movement, human rights movements, and what not?

 

But America attack on Islam and Muslims, in response of 9/11 America label ALL Muslims despite the retraction statement by your presiden regarding the "peaceful/moderate Muslims"...who are the west want to label this and that as "peaceful/moderate Muslim" and "terrorist/extremist Muslim"? Do us Muslims must follow your label? "oh we are peaceful/moderate Muslims because USA say so..."

 

Anti-Islam campaign is real, as a Muslim i who live in SEA got the heat...you see the propaganda is first against Islam, "Islam is religion of terror", War on Terror means war on islam. I was actively "fighting" on You Tube but then i feel stupid...because it never end and because what is the point? Muslims have been labelled so much to the point resisting is pointless...

 

You know MH370 incident? CNN try to make it like an attempt of terrorism just because our pilots are Muslims....for months CNN try to connect this case with Islamic terrorism...they don't want to take it as accident or something else, they just jump into "Islamic terrorism"...

Edited November 17, 2015 by Qistina

[Amentep]

 

 

In America, there is no difference.  People can shout death to America in America anytime they want.  People have burned the flag, and otherwise argued for the death of the country as an entity (isn't this a sport in Texas? ).  As long as its not demonstrably a threat to a specific individual or group, it can't raise to the level of legal action.

 

 

Really? But if Muslims in America make rally and shout "Death to America!", bring weapons, burning American flag, drawing your presiden face funnily or even Jesus, burn the Bible...they will get shot by the police isn't it?

 

 

Bringing weapons will probably cause the police to come and check permits.  Resisting the permit check or not having a proper permit will lead to an arrest (which itself could escalate things but that wouldn't be the intent).  Most people who rally around controversial sentiments aren't going to bring weapons for that reason.  But none of the rest of it is really actionable.  Heck political cartoonists draw the president in caricature everyday - many will also do Jesus or the Pope if there's a reason; that's barely a blip on our radar.

[Qistina]

 

Bringing weapons will probably cause the police to come and check permits.  Resisting the permit check or not having a proper permit will lead to an arrest (which itself could escalate things but that wouldn't be the intent).  Most people who rally around controversial sentiments aren't going to bring weapons for that reason.  But none of the rest of it is really actionable.  Heck political cartoonists draw the president in caricature everyday - many will also do Jesus or the Pope if there's a reason; that's barely a blip on our radar.

 

 

I know American police just shoot people if seeing carrying weapons...especially non-white Americans...i see these a lot on your news...some who get shot don't even carry weapon but gadgets or something on the hand believed to be a weapon...so don't tell me they will ask for permit first, i know....we have internet here...but those rally at mosque no one care they carrying weapons

 

And i don't say police in my country is good, they are all the same...police are never good but we need them isn't?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Qistina

[Mamoulian War]

Ok, let's talk about something else Qistina. I am sometimes thinking of moving to some different country, because of my own reasons. Could you tell me little more about how are western foreigners living in your country? How are they incorporated into your daily life? Is it easy or hard for them to embrace your cultural and religious diversity? How are westerners which mive to Malaysia treated compared to tourists? And which places/towns in Malaysia you think would be best suited for living for people like me, who respect the foreign cultures and religions. I had few Malaysian friends in my WoW guild, but all of them were of Chinese origins, and one of my Malaysian colleagues, when I was in Singapore was of Indian origin. I have actually never spoken about it with Malay people, so it would be nice to hear about your country from you as well.

[Qistina]

Ok, let's talk about something else Qistina. I am sometimes thinking of moving to some different country, because of my own reasons. Could you tell me little more about how are western foreigners living in your country? How are they incorporated into your daily life? Is it easy or hard for them to embrace your cultural and religious diversity? How are westerners which mive to Malaysia treated compared to tourists? And which places/towns in Malaysia you think would be best suited for living for people like me, who respect the foreign cultures and religions. I had few Malaysian friends in my WoW guild, but all of them were of Chinese origins, and one of my Malaysian colleagues, when I was in Singapore was of Indian origin. I have actually never spoken about it with Malay people, so it would be nice to hear about your country from you as well.

 

Some westerners are good, there are many backpackers and tourists here, some even stay here as resident...some are bad and doing whatever they want as if they own the world. I myself meet many western tourist, i just don't mind them unless they ask me something...but most malaysians as i said are still looking at white people highly, they will be overjoyed if white people say "hello"...for most people here white peoples are gods and goddesses...so you don't have to worry.

 

maybe you will want to watch such videos...

 

[Amentep]

 

 

Bringing weapons will probably cause the police to come and check permits.  Resisting the permit check or not having a proper permit will lead to an arrest (which itself could escalate things but that wouldn't be the intent).  Most people who rally around controversial sentiments aren't going to bring weapons for that reason.  But none of the rest of it is really actionable.  Heck political cartoonists draw the president in caricature everyday - many will also do Jesus or the Pope if there's a reason; that's barely a blip on our radar.

 

 

I know American police just shoot people if seeing carrying weapons...especially non-white Americans...i see these a lot on your news...some who get shot don't even carry weapon but gadgets or something on the hand believed to be a weapon...so don't tell me they will ask for permit first, i know....we have internet here...but those rally at mosque no one care they carrying weapons

 

And i don't say police in my country is good, they are all the same...police are never good but we need them isn't?

 

 

Generally speaking a rally gets more scrutiny than an average guy/gal on the street.  You can be guaranteed that police at a rally are not going to try to instigate something while under extra scrutiny.

 

And if the people at the rally weren't shooting their guns then the police are going to be extra careful while the extra eyes are upon them.

 

Edit:

 

Dude at US airport carrying a gun legally:

 

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/man-raises-eyebrows-carrying-gun-through-atlanta-a/nmTFS/

 

(I'm sure that now the discussion will shift to "but he's not a muslim!")

Edited November 17, 2015 by Amentep