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[2.02] Crit damage calculation bug?


AndreaColombo

Question

According to Josh, critical damage multiplier should apply to the total damage dealt by the attack, and the 30% bonus to crit damage granted by Durgan Steel should stack with the Annihilation weapon enchantment, which grants another 50% bonus damage to crits:

 

mXY56N9.png

 

 

However, my test conducted on a Durgan-refined, Superb "Hours of St. Rumbald" Great Sword seems to indicate that either crit damage multipliers do not apply to the total damage of the attack, or Annihilation and Durgan Steel simply do not work.

 

SAVED GAME: link

 

OUTPUT LOG: link

 

REPRO STEPS:

 

Load the attached saved game.

Select the protagonist and activate Savage Attack.

Go to the character record screen and observe her damage output is 35 - 51 :

 

d4wVmxv.png

 

Quickly calculate what the damage range should be for a regular crit (+50%), a crit with Annihilation (+100%), and a crit with Annihilation and Durgan Steel (+130%). Unless my math is beyond terribad, it should look like this:

 

  • Crit: 52.5 - 76.5
  • Crit + Annihilation: 70 - 102
  • Crit + Annihilation + Durgan Steel: 80.5 - 117.3

Go to the inventory and observe the protagonist is wielding a Durgan-enhanced Hours of St. Rumbald great sword, which has the Annihilation enchant. According to Josh's tweet, Durgan Steel should stack with it, so the total bonus damage for critical hits should be 130%.

Summon a hostile creature close to Zahua so that he, Grieving Mother, and Devil of Caroc can keep it busy while you use the combat state to run your test (you could probably test outside of combat too, but Accuracy buffs make you crit a lot more often.)

Select Aloth and have him use a Scroll of Valor; make Durance cast Devotions for the Faithful on the protagonist. This should ensure that you crit almost 100% of the times when attacking Durance.

Select the protagonist and attack Durance; keep track of the damage output of critical hits.

Observe the damage from critical hits (before applying DR) falls within the 52.5 - 76.5 range, indicating a 50% bonus.

 

Here are some crits from my testing session:

 

M964333.png

 

 

Please check with designers/programmers if this is working as intended. If it is, please clarify how the mechanics work :)

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Bump for visibility. Really keen on getting the +130% damage murderball going (it can actually go higher than that but if it doesn't work, there's no point) ;)

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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I've always thought it was intended that crits just add  a mod to the base, not the end damage. Not much outside of lash or things that basically have a separate listing in the damage log are based on total damage, as far as I can tell.

 

The descriptions are a little wonky looking at it now, so I'm not sure if it's intended. The tool tip for crit says 50% of final damage...but the crit boosting stuff speaks in terms of mod boosting, which would make no sense if crits were supposed to multiply the final damage, and not just be another mod effect.

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The game is generally bad at explaining its mechanics; that's why I asked Josh on Twitter before I raised this. Aarik double-checked with him so I guess it is safe to assume it is meant to boost total damage at this point.

 

EDIT: My quick smartphone math suggests crits currently work as other damage mods. Regardless, if Josh says total damage, total damage it should be.

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Oh, yeah, I agree, the game does a very bad job of explaining the details of how stuff works. I wonder if that means grazes are supposed to half final damage, rather than just add a -.5 mod onto the base. Would certainly make graze->hit stuff more important. (Not sure about hit->graze, dunno if mobs have multipliers for their attacks, or if it's all just base damage for them.)

 

Either way, it would likely push perception up in importance, as instead of end game crits being a +1.7 mod, it'll change to +170% damage. Not counting class specific stuff, about 2.2 mod or so is reasonably attainable for anyone. That'd make it more like that 1.7 mod a 3.7 mod once fixed. Rogues will be getting a really huge boost, changing crits from about 1.7 mod to a 5.4 mod, to go with their base 18% higher crit rate. Should be pretty nutty.

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^ indeed; I was thinking a rogue build based on that but it all depends on how this turns out.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Hi Adam,

 

thanks for looking into this.

 

Do I understand correctly that crit damage should not multiply final damage, but rather apply as another damage mod (i.e. sum to other damage mods, then multiply)?

 

If that is the case, the description for crits in the Cyclopedia needs amending as it is currently stating that crits multiply final damage.

 

However, I am a little lost now. What is the expected damage output from my example above?

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Aarik, do you know whether this was fixed for 2.03?

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Interesting. I may run another batch of tests on a new game to double-check then.

 

EDIT: Still getting only 50% more damage from crits. Guess I'll try again on 2.03.

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Hi everyone,

 

Sorry to bring an old thread back from the dead but I found myself planning a Rogue and couldn't get any definitive answer to the questions asked in this thread from searching the forums, namely:

 

1. Are Crit multipliers calculated off base damage or multiplied off total damage dealt? 

1a. If they're multiplied, does the multiplication take place before or after damage reduction is factored in?

2. Do Annihilation and Durgan Steel stack properly now?

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Technically, yes: Durgan Steel and Annihilating now stack properly. However, 3.0 broke the Annihilating enchant, which currently does nothing. Hopefully 3.02 will fix it, and it will be back to stacking with Durgan Steel.

 

Critical damage appears to be additive like all other damage modifiers, so it does not multiply the total damage dealt but just the weapon's base damage.

  • Like 1

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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^ It should, yes.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Ok. I stand corrected. I just made a screenshot which totally baffles me. Check it out.:

http://postimg.org/image/oavij9qdl/

 

Battle axe's dmg is 11-16 so it makes no sense. Sometimes the crit damage is too low to assume it's based off of total damage. Other times it's too high not to be based off of total damage. Same thing with grazes. It must be some kind of occasional bug or something.

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