Attack speed weapon + frenzy stack? Paladin Wayfarer build?

[Vorad]

Hey all, I wanted to ask( since I can't seem to find it) if the Attack Speed bonus from Frenzy stacks with the Attack Speed bonus from weapons. I am asking because based on the buffs/debuffs regarding spells only the highest count. On the other hand the same bonus from different items(weapon + armor) again based on theory should stack.

 

I was planing on making a Paladin Kind-Wayfarer tank(Moon Goodlike) in this case I need: High Constitution, Perception, Resolve, average Might, Dexterity, Intellect. It's hard to balance the stats on the Paladin since she's not only a tank but also a support character and because of Wayfarer background she should be able to dish out some damage especially in order to get the finishing blow so I had to minimax and dump some of the stats alltoghether.

 

The stats I have considered:

Mig. 10 : 8(+ 2 gloves)

Con. 19 : 18(+1 gloves)

Dex. 6 : 3(+2 belt, +1 race)

Per. 18: 16(+2 ench)

Int.  15 : 12(+2 neck, +1 race)

Res. 20 : 18(+1 Neck, +1 Aedyr)

 

With food those bonuses can get an extra 2 points boost, I was thinking of running Sanguine Plate + Unforgiven + Outworn buckler. I'd like to know people's opinion especially Paladin players on the matter. Should I drop a few points of Per and Con and increase Dex, Mig base to 10 perhaps or even 12? I though that a total value of 13-15 Mig and 14-15 Dex especially when it comes to 1handed weapons is ok. In that case assuming that I aim for a 15 Mig, 15 Dex given the +3 bonus one can find from drops(items endgame) and a 2 bonus from food then would it be sufficient to aim for a 9-10 base Mig and Dex?

 

The main reason for me building a Paladin is the changes on fighter, and also because I am bored of fighter main-tank, I would like to be able to tank with Paladin during all stages of the game but also since he provides some nice support to the group I would like to be able and exploit that. At the moment because of Int and boots her Zealous Aura has 5.7m radius and it's enough for my wood elf casters although I believe I could even drop the aura to 4m and it would still be enough to get double bonus. So far the only viable choices that I see are Wayfarer and Shieldbarer.

 

The party consist of 2 wizards(main + add), 1 druid, 1 cleric (all maxed on offensive stats), 1 chanter(full defensive), 1 tank(used to be full defensive Fighter).

 

I could go with the Shieldbearer but I was thinking that maybe there is a way to get the Wayfarer's offensive potential without much loss.

If I keep the above stats I am at - 18% Attack Speed, if however Frenzy + Unforgiven stack(which I can't seem to discern) then I could get a bonus of 33 + 25 = 58% giving me a total of 40% Attack Speed.

 

Also I was considering of getting at some point(lvl 7+) Adventurer + Vulnerable Attack for armor penetrating attacks with flail or heavier armor penetration with Estoc, is this better than just going with Noble talent for mace only?

What do you think?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

PS:

 

Could go with base stats:

Mig. 9

Con. 17

Dex. 10(9 + 1 race)

Int. 8(7 + 1 race)

Per. 15

Res. 19(18 + 1 Aedyr)

Edited September 8, 2015 by Vorad

[KDubya]

For me I wouldn't have any paladin stat below a 10. plus I'm too lazy to buff much with food

 

I've got a Kind Wayfarer on PotD, just finished clearing Raedrics and almost level 5. The heal on kill effect is OK at this point but soon 25 endurance heals are going to be pretty insignificant. But for role play he works fine and there is always re-spec. He is an island Amaumau so he can switch between Great Sword/Pike, warhammer and shield and arquebus. My plan is to have mine and Pellagrina handling the healing without a priest on the team. Four lay on Hands plus what ever on kill effects I get should do fine.

 

If I was hiring a merc Paladin I'd go with the Shield bearer for their buffs and not worry about trying for an on kill effect, especially with four big damagers on the team. Or grab a Goldpact as they like to work for money and all.

 

I'd just stick to the weapon and shield with a ranged weapon on switch. Stick with being tanky and supporting your damage guys on the team. If you try to do both you'll end up disappointed.

[Torm51]

For me I wouldn't have any paladin stat below a 10. plus I'm too lazy to buff much with food

 

I've got a Kind Wayfarer on PotD, just finished clearing Raedrics and almost level 5. The heal on kill effect is OK at this point but soon 25 endurance heals are going to be pretty insignificant. But for role play he works fine and there is always re-spec. He is an island Amaumau so he can switch between Great Sword/Pike, warhammer and shield and arquebus. My plan is to have mine and Pellagrina handling the healing without a priest on the team. Four lay on Hands plus what ever on kill effects I get should do fine.

 

If I was hiring a merc Paladin I'd go with the Shield bearer for their buffs and not worry about trying for an on kill effect, especially with four big damagers on the team. Or grab a Goldpact as they like to work for money and all.

 

I'd just stick to the weapon and shield with a ranged weapon on switch. Stick with being tanky and supporting your damage guys on the team. If you try to do both you'll end up disappointed.

Exactly right. As a Paladin I would not drop anything below 10 as of 2.0 and beyond.  My favorite class by far is the Paladin.  That being said they suffer from what Paladins in D and D and other settings suffer from and that is a large Attribute spread.  Meaning they can make use of every single attribute in the game.  You just don't have the points to do them all.  If you dump Int  not last very long (one of 2 reasons to bring a Paladin the other being there  sturdiness).  So either go for a Offensive focused Paladin with good support abilities (Good Might, Per, Int) a defensive paladin with good support abilities (Good Con, Res and Int) or a Paladin with ok offense and defense with below (Good Might, Con, Per)  average support abilities.  You cant do it all.

 

If you do go defensive with 2.01 and from now on really I would recommend having an offensive presence by taking Flames of Devotion with a high accuracy weapon that has good base damage so that you have two very good Alphas per encounter.  With the better AI meatbag tanks are not very good.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Torm51

[Vorad]

Fair points guys thanks for help. Oh by the way yes the party is meant for Potd. I haven't yet made up my mind however on weapon focus, there is the option to just go mace(Noble), flail + estoc(there are several good flails for several purposes and there are two decent estocs although I might go for Drake's bell -8 DR since the Endless Paths Estoc with 4 casters in party won't seem to benefit me much), or warhammer(Shatterstar) + (Greatsword(Tidefall).

 

Due to the fact my pallie is wearing full plate the slower weapons don't seem very interesting to me at the moment, mostly I was considering flail as main weapon and estoc as starter/finisher coupled with flames of devotion. Also the order skills all of them seem subpar in lategame perhaps the +10 deflection from shieldbearer > wayfarer? The rest are complete waste.

 

Also does anyone know if frenzy + attack speed from weapon do actually stack? I am running simulations manually vs npc and it seems to me these speed buffs/bonuses are broken. I know there are some issues with frenzy generally speaking now with 2.01 but don't know weather the attack speed is meant to stack.

 

Thanks all.

[Nobear]

If you do go defensive with 2.01 and from now on really I would recommend having an offensive presence by taking Flames of Devotion with a high accuracy weapon that has good base damage so that you have two very good Alphas per encounter.  With the better AI meatbag tanks are not very good.

 

Wow, whaddya know? Times, they are a-changin .

 

To the OP: Personally, I'd probably have 10 Mig, still 10+ Con but maybe not that high, dumped Dex, maxed Int, 10 Per, and maxed Res. OFC, though I played 1.0.6 pretty extensively including beating PoTD, I still haven't played much in 2.0, so my thoughts may or may not change. My thinking on the maxed Int vs 10 Per: for Int, I value both long buffs and large auras, I want to be free to wear boots other than the aura-increasing ones, and I want to be sure my aura covers everyone in the custom formation I prefer, whether things get bunched up or spread out due to the nature of the fight. The 10 Per would be because FoD has a built-in +20 Accuracy anyway, and I see my paladin as mostly a tank/support. YMMV.

 

Alas, I do not have a definite answer to your main question about whether attack speed on weapons and frenzy stack.

 

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot: have you considered Darkozzi? Their Inspiring Liberation talent is very popular. You can use Liberating Exhortation (whether or not the ally has an affliction to be liberated from) to give them +10 Accuracy, and it stacks, so you can apply it twice to the same ally. The flame shield on FoD is not as raved about, I haven't tried it and IDK if it's good enough to justify a talent point for, but I figured it was worth mentioning anyway.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Nobear

[AndreaColombo]

Also does anyone know if frenzy + attack speed from weapon do actually stack? I am running simulations manually vs npc and it seems to me these speed buffs/bonuses are broken. I know there are some issues with frenzy generally speaking now with 2.01 but don't know weather the attack speed is meant to stack.

 

They should stack, but I'm afraid 2.01 broke the "Speed" enchantment again.

 

I'm still on 2.0 so I might be able to test it this weekend (though likely you'll have found out by yourself by that time.)

[Vorad]

 

Also does anyone know if frenzy + attack speed from weapon do actually stack? I am running simulations manually vs npc and it seems to me these speed buffs/bonuses are broken. I know there are some issues with frenzy generally speaking now with 2.01 but don't know weather the attack speed is meant to stack.

 

They should stack, but I'm afraid 2.01 broke the "Speed" enchantment again.

 

I'm still on 2.0 so I might be able to test it this weekend (though likely you'll have found out by yourself by that time.)

 

I didn't manage to test it when at 2.0, I might downgrade (not sure) but  right now after trial and error in 2.01 I am 99.99% positive that the speed buffs by frenzy or weapon don't really seem to work at all let alone stack, sadly. Thank you for the effort though, I really appreciate it.

[Killyox]

Well it depends on what sort of paladin you make.

 

If it's support/aura type of pala then Int should be higher. If it's 2H type of pala then then Might will be nice. If it's 1h+shield you can leave might at 10-12 and raise Int/Res to make more use of your abilities + scrolls.

 

You don't have to have all but you can make many different things with him. Personally I think INT due to existance on Scrolls and abilities gained from Items is the best stat in the game so unless it's not good for some class I always try to raise it.

 

Might Switch Eder for Pallegina due to her higher int and play her like him but with better effect:D

[Vorad]

Well it depends on what sort of paladin you make.

 

If it's support/aura type of pala then Int should be higher. If it's 2H type of pala then then Might will be nice. If it's 1h+shield you can leave might at 10-12 and raise Int/Res to make more use of your abilities + scrolls.

 

You don't have to have all but you can make many different things with him. Personally I think INT due to existance on Scrolls and abilities gained from Items is the best stat in the game so unless it's not good for some class I always try to raise it.

 

Might Switch Eder for Pallegina due to her higher int and play her like him but with better effect:D

Mostly I go for hand weapon + shield so yes I aim for Might around 13 including buffs from food and enchantments( which would mean a base 8-9 Might ). The main  purpose being a tank that can "hold the line" and provide some support too. (Wouldn't it be fun if we could also use spells like enlarge person? )

 

Which 1 handers  do you guys generally use on Pallie, so far I have been playing around with gaun's share and shatterstar, both have their merits. Would you recommend I pick a weapon focus skill or is Flames of Devotion more than enough?

[Ymarsakar]

I tested a 2.0 White March PotD offensive paladin with Pallegina as the defensive one. got sworn, flames 2x, and bumped perception to 15. Con went down to 11-12. Higher might can sometimes make up for lower con due to how fast lay on hands works.

 

Attack speed buffs from different sources do stack, up to about +100%. Armor, though, can prevent that because it negates about 33% attack speed for -50 recovery armor. Once you stack past 50-60% though, the last 40% gives more than 40% damage. It's more like 80%, some kind of exponential or qudratic formula.

 

DR bypass talents work better for one handed weapons, so unless you plan on going dual or using a weapon/shield combo for dps all the time, I would go for +15% two handed weapon talent and only switch to shield if you are actively taking damage.

 

I got an orlan paladin that makes good use of the +10% hit to crit conversion. Using flames on crit, that's about 60 damage. St Rum then makes the enemy go prone on crit. This allows me to tank the front line as well as bypass the front to get at the enemy's backline, no matter what order I use my melee tank/dps in. Flames has a +20 accuracy and sworn enemy has +10 or so accuracy on an enemy all the time until it dies. Compared to a defensive paladin, I only have access to one aura, the zealous, and one exhortation at level 11.

 

For a moonlike paladin, you normally don't need as high a con due to the way silver tide procs. You need enough not to get one shot from 50% to 0%.

 

The fish wildling content from White March is pretty challenging on level 11 party. But normally it's not the tanks that die due to not enough con. It's more like they got cut off and didn't receive healing because the healers are paralyzed or cced. Paladins mitigate this issue because they can heal at the front, and it's hard to interrupt lay on hands even if your resolve is low.

 

Running 3 melee, 2 paladins and 1 monk, plus the Itumaak 24 dr pet that does 30-60 dmg on hit with ranger buffs.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Torm51]

I tested a 2.0 White March PotD offensive paladin with Pallegina as the defensive one. got sworn, flames 2x, and bumped perception to 15. Con went down to 11-12. Higher might can sometimes make up for lower con due to how fast lay on hands works.

 

Attack speed buffs from different sources do stack, up to about +100%. Armor, though, can prevent that because it negates about 33% attack speed for -50 recovery armor. Once you stack past 50-60% though, the last 40% gives more than 40% damage. It's more like 80%, some kind of exponential or qudratic formula.

 

DR bypass talents work better for one handed weapons, so unless you plan on going dual or using a weapon/shield combo for dps all the time, I would go for +15% two handed weapon talent and only switch to shield if you are actively taking damage.

 

I got an orlan paladin that makes good use of the +10% hit to crit conversion. Using flames on crit, that's about 60 damage. St Rum then makes the enemy go prone on crit. This allows me to tank the front line as well as bypass the front to get at the enemy's backline, no matter what order I use my melee tank/dps in. Flames has a +20 accuracy and sworn enemy has +10 or so accuracy on an enemy all the time until it dies. Compared to a defensive paladin, I only have access to one aura, the zealous, and one exhortation at level 11.

 

For a moonlike paladin, you normally don't need as high a con due to the way silver tide procs. You need enough not to get one shot from 50% to 0%.

 

The fish wildling content from White March is pretty challenging on level 11 party. But normally it's not the tanks that die due to not enough con. It's more like they got cut off and didn't receive healing because the healers are paralyzed or cced. Paladins mitigate this issue because they can heal at the front, and it's hard to interrupt lay on hands even if your resolve is low.

 

Running 3 melee, 2 paladins and 1 monk, plus the Itumaak 24 dr pet that does 30-60 dmg on hit with ranger buffs.

 

I tested a 2.0 White March PotD offensive paladin with Pallegina as the defensive one. got sworn, flames 2x, and bumped perception to 15. Con went down to 11-12. Higher might can sometimes make up for lower con due to how fast lay on hands works.

 

Attack speed buffs from different sources do stack, up to about +100%. Armor, though, can prevent that because it negates about 33% attack speed for -50 recovery armor. Once you stack past 50-60% though, the last 40% gives more than 40% damage. It's more like 80%, some kind of exponential or qudratic formula.

 

DR bypass talents work better for one handed weapons, so unless you plan on going dual or using a weapon/shield combo for dps all the time, I would go for +15% two handed weapon talent and only switch to shield if you are actively taking damage.

 

I got an orlan paladin that makes good use of the +10% hit to crit conversion. Using flames on crit, that's about 60 damage. St Rum then makes the enemy go prone on crit. This allows me to tank the front line as well as bypass the front to get at the enemy's backline, no matter what order I use my melee tank/dps in. Flames has a +20 accuracy and sworn enemy has +10 or so accuracy on an enemy all the time until it dies. Compared to a defensive paladin, I only have access to one aura, the zealous, and one exhortation at level 11.

 

For a moonlike paladin, you normally don't need as high a con due to the way silver tide procs. You need enough not to get one shot from 50% to 0%.

 

The fish wildling content from White March is pretty challenging on level 11 party. But normally it's not the tanks that die due to not enough con. It's more like they got cut off and didn't receive healing because the healers are paralyzed or cced. Paladins mitigate this issue because they can heal at the front, and it's hard to interrupt lay on hands even if your resolve is low.

 

Running 3 melee, 2 paladins and 1 monk, plus the Itumaak 24 dr pet that does 30-60 dmg on hit with ranger buffs.

Hey some people have been reporting that attack speed buffs are bugged.  True? and have you tried Hastening Exhortation to see if its bugged? I am not at level 11 yet on my play through.

[Ymarsakar]

It was bugged before 2.0 white march and then it was bugged in 2.1 white march. So the only build it actually works in is 2.0 white march most likely... it's noticeable on the youtube tests when they keep stacking attack speed and some guy with a rapier attacks at .75 attacks per second or something ridiculous.

 

Most of the buff effects for attack speed should stack. Before white march came out, I heard the attack speed on weapons didn't do anything. After white march, the 2.01 patch broke a lot of talents and powers, so it's unreliable testing anything there. I just assume the stuff is broken even if the tooltips and effects show it is applied.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Gs11]

It was bugged before 2.0 white march and then it was bugged in 2.1 white march. So the only build it actually works in is 2.0 white march most likely... it's noticeable on the youtube tests when they keep stacking attack speed and some guy with a rapier attacks at .75 attacks per second or something ridiculous.

 

Most of the buff effects for attack speed should stack. Before white march came out, I heard the attack speed on weapons didn't do anything. After white march, the 2.01 patch broke a lot of talents and powers, so it's unreliable testing anything there. I just assume the stuff is broken even if the tooltips and effects show it is applied.

So Frenzy is useless  when talkign about speed bonus?It doesn't work?

[Ymarsakar]

It should be working in 2.0 White March

 

They were talking about attack speed bonuses from everything not stacking.

 

Good news is that 2.02 patch seemed to have fixed a lot of issues that 2.01 broke.

 

If you want to find out for sure, find an inn and aggro the civilians. Then have the person wearing the frenzy armor take enough hits (from entangle for example) that it procs.

 

Then count the seconds between attacks, preferably with larger weapons as it is more noticeable. Then compare vs the attack speed when it is off.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Boeroer]

So: I know for sure that monk's Swift Strikes and Fenzy don't stack - one supresses the other and it's visible when you open the char sheet during combat. That's because they are two similar buffs from the same source pool (here: abilities). BUT: normally all weapon enchantments stack with bonuses from other sources, since weapons are a different pool. E.g. Spelltongue's speed bonus applies when you're frenzied and so should other speed enchantments. So basically my opinion is: yes, weapon speed enchantments stack with frenzy.

[AndreaColombo]

"Speed" weapon enchantment works in 2.02; just tested.

[Gs11]

What about Barb's Frenzy? Is it sill proc on hit or whenever player want to activate?

[AndreaColombo]

It was never "proc on hit" that I know of. It was, and still is, "proc on crit" on Sanguine Plate. Barbarians activate it when they want.

[Gs11]

Yes I mean proc on crit( by item ), my mistake. But I heard that was problem  with activation by Barb himself, something with being in battle/hit etc. before.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Gs11

[AndreaColombo]

It was fixed in 2.02

[Ymarsakar]

Yes I mean proc on crit( by item ), my mistake. But I heard that was problem  with activation by Barb himself, something with being in battle/hit etc. before.

 

AI issue the 2.01 bug brought along, they fixed it in 2.02 as mentioned above.