Level 7 Ciphers powers: underwhelming?

[Aotrs Commander]

What's the general opinion of the level 7 cipher powers?

 

My own immediate impression that they were a bit pants (qualifier: I'm playing on normal). I picked the speed-stealing one (though both my character and GM are using blunderbusses and... I don't think I've really noticed much effect when I used it) - I can maybe see a use for the stasis one in some of the boss fights, but I'm not sure either are better than Amplified Wave to burn focus on.

 

What are other people's thoughts and/or how should said powers be used (i.e. am I just being dense and they're really good when used right or what)?

[Wolken3156]

Time Parasite is actually amazing on a high Dex build. The only thing really holding it back is the 40 focus cost, which is just too much. I'm not a real fan of Stasis since Mental Binding is a much more cost efficient for a similar effect and both powers target the same defense and have the same accuracy anyway.

 

Maybe if Stasis Shell had higher accuracy bonus, then maybe it would be worth using.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Wolken3156

[Elric Galad]

Mental Binding has been nerferd to the ground in 2.0 (or maybe in 2.01 ?)

Average Casting time instead of fast.

4.0s Base Duration.

 

So it's no more a no-brainer focus spender.

[NerdCommando]

Time Parasite is really good but it doesn't work well (almost at all) with the guns and you need to be lightly armored (best - unarmored) for it to work properly. Some extra speed bonuses will be welcome too. Do that and it can easily double your damage output.

[Nobear]

Mental Binding has been nerferd to the ground in 2.0 (or maybe in 2.01 ?)

 

Average Casting time instead of fast.

4.0s Base Duration.

 

So it's no more a no-brainer focus spender.

 

What?? Clearly I still haven't played 2.0 much yet but this, if true... was quite needed TBH *sigh* lol!

[lonelornfr]

I'm not sure why whoever designs Chanters and Ciphers thinks spells absolutely need to cost more and more ressources as they're higher level.

It wouldnt be stupid that costing no to low ressource would be a part of being a high level spell in the first place (for some spells, not as an universal rule). So you could have high level spells or invocations that dont accomplish a lot more than lower level ones but are very fast or cost very little ressource or have a big range or any combination of those.

 

Right now, the way high level invocations are designed is a big issue for chanters, by the time you chant 6 phrases, the outcome of a fight is already decided 99% of the time, so you have no real use for that big invocation other than it's shiny. Same goes for Ciphers to a lesser extent, you either make their high level spells downright OP or they wont be worth casting due to the sheer amount of focus they require.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, I've come to pretty much the end of the expansion now (just one or two boss fights to maybe tackle) and I barely used either of the level 7s. (Actually, I barely touched anything above level 3 for anyone). Amplified Wave (especially doubled), combined with Aloth's now-spammable fireball did the majority of the work (especially having added the sneak attack multiclass feat to both ciphers...)

[MunoValente]

I think it's fine they aren't attacks, making an attack stronger than amplified wave that wasn't completely broken would be tough to do.

[Ymarsakar]

 

Mental Binding has been nerferd to the ground in 2.0 (or maybe in 2.01 ?)

 

Average Casting time instead of fast.

4.0s Base Duration.

 

So it's no more a no-brainer focus spender.

 

What?? Clearly I still haven't played 2.0 much yet but this, if true... was quite needed TBH *sigh* lol!

 

 

Don't worry, paralysis is still op if you have party focus dps. It just receives much more benefit from a dex cipher now. It is true that it is no longer all that superior to the wizard's fetid caress. What made it really powerful though was that it could be cast more than a few times per battle, if it missed. But that's actually due to the cipher, not the spell.

 

Chanters and ciphers really don't need spell powers above level six and whatever the chanter's invocations were limited at. That's not how they were balanced. They need faster verses, faster focus gain, so that all their abilities improve.

 

Casters get per encounter spells, boosting the use of their lower powered spells. Why don't ciphers get an option to gain more focus, thus allowing them to use more abilities just like the casters do? That way, you might be able to decrease the overall dps of a cipher in favor of something that allows it to focus on building focus better.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Psychevore]

Mental Binding has been nerferd to the ground in 2.0 (or maybe in 2.01 ?)

 

Average Casting time instead of fast.

4.0s Base Duration.

 

So it's no more a no-brainer focus spender.

It's still an almost game breaking ability.

 

Before, it really did break the game.

 

And it's not even the paralysed status that makes it game breaking, it's the AoE hold effect.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Psychevore

[Elric Galad]

Honnestly, the duration is ok and balanced now but I really miss the fast casting. About 4s of casting and recovery for about 5s of effect (when it succeeds) is a bit disappointing.

 

But I play a melee cipher now and Ectopsychic is probably even more crazy than mental binding was. The problem is that I don't have a wizard in my party and I miss a bit of crowd control... ^^

[Ymarsakar]

Honnestly, the duration is ok and balanced now but I really miss the fast casting. About 4s of casting and recovery for about 5s of effect (when it succeeds) is a bit disappointing.

 

But I play a melee cipher now and Ectopsychic is probably even more crazy than mental binding was. The problem is that I don't have a wizard in my party and I miss a bit of crowd control... ^^

 

A monk or chanter can be useful. But they generally debuff fortitude, not will. The wizard's still the best will debuffer due to miasma.

 

The priest's aoe hazard spells are pretty nice, even though the priest has lower accuracy. Just debuff the enemy's reflex via an aoe and watch them get hit so hard. I think Durance actually had the highest single target damage in the records, 107. The Cipher did more, but it wasn't a single attack and would only come from the special detonate/raw damage spells at higher levels. No rogues in sight.

 

Echo used on summons from the chanter or wizard is hilarious. Try a wizard with essential phantom with all spell bind items like forge gloves, and then put him behind the enemy lines running around, then cast echo on him.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Elric Galad]

Yes, my monk on the frontline was meant to spam Force of Anguish and repulsive seal is golden. I also have a druid for CC and I hope my ranger will be a backup CC at high level with binding roots and stunning shot.

 

This is a bit the reason why I didn't take a wizard : their massive CC that shut down an entire battlefield sounded a bit too plain to play for me ^^

 

Furthermore, the good point with mental binding nerf is that it makes alternate cipher CC spells suddenly more attractive. I'm going to try a bit puppetmaster or tenuous grasp for example )

 

Mental binding is still viable for team damage focus. -40 deflection, even for 5s is just so nice.

[Ymarsakar]

I used mental binding in a couple of unorthodox situations, such as interrupting spell casters that I couldn't dps down due to not having a ranger/rogue. I also used it to help the tanks when they were being overwhelmed and healing wasn't ready yet. Using the aoe stuck effect, the enemies can often create temporary bottlenecks in corridors, which can be used to annihilate them without using a melee member.

 

Generally the issue was always the accuracy vs defenses, now it is less of an issue due to perception builds. I'll take more reliable paralysis over longer paralysis generally, since the cipher has a lot of damage to deal for the focus.

 

I tried out antipathetic wave a few times in 1.03 and realized just how much damage it dealt, which wasn't transparent in the tooltips. I did not imagine it would proc six+ times. Using it to kill boss enemies or ogres, was funny. All other spells would just scratch the ogre's paint, but the beam spells just melted them, especially if you used two at once.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Ymarsakar