Paladin 2.0 still need Perception?

[dogeddie]

I see that since Perception was changed re: Deflection, it is no longer a Paladin "recommended" ability and it no longer increases Deflecton. I see it does improve interrupt though. Looking for thoughts on the current value of Perception. Do I still need it at a high number? I restarted, and my last character was like 16 or 17 I believe. 

Also, are Constitution and Intellect still "less than crucial" as before for a tank type?

Thanks for suggestions.

[Heijoushin]

Hey Dogeman. This is just my opinion, but ANY character (besides maybe a dedicated healer/buffer) needs accuracy for their attacks to land. So that makes it even more important than before. 

 

Constitution has been buffed, so you now get more bang for your buck now (5% up from 3%). I haven't played enough expansion yet so see if this is worth it though. 

 

Intellect, I still don't think that's too important for a fighter. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by Heijoushin

[Torm51]

I see that since Perception was changed re: Deflection, it is no longer a Paladin "recommended" ability and it no longer increases Deflecton. I see it does improve interrupt though. Looking for thoughts on the current value of Perception. Do I still need it at a high number? I restarted, and my last character was like 16 or 17 I believe. 

 

Also, are Constitution and Intellect still "less than crucial" as before for a tank type?

 

Thanks for suggestions.

 

 

Hey Eddie,  First the TANK question:

 

 I love the Paladin as you can see from my Sig and played 2.0 Beta heavily and have been playing the live build as a main character Paladin.  My main character is mostly a tank.  What I can tell you since the loss in deflection (Per gives accuracy instead of Def) you will get hit a good amount more So high resolve is even more important.  You also get more bang for your buck with Con now as you stated.  As a tank getting hit more= you want more Con.  That has definitely been my experience.  Currently my Base stats are: 10 Might, 14 Con, 15 Int, 19 Resolve (everything else 10 I don't like stat dumping).  I am debating to forgo my auras hitting the back line and leave Int at 10 (not dump it) in order to get more Con but maybe that's cause I am only level 7 and not end game.  You are also receiving a nerf in your Reflex defense because as a defense type of character you are not taking Dex or Per.

 

On Perception and being a damage dealer:

 

The downside of Paladin in PoE is it suffers from what a Paladin suffers from in D and D (BG games etc) in they have of a lot of Attributes  they can make good use of.  (BG you HAD to have a minimum of 13 Wisdom and 17 Char so your STR and DEX suffered).  A Paladin will never be a heavy hitter (hes not suppose to be) but in order to deal relevant damage and do your job you have to spread yourself too thin.  You would need Good Might, Per,  Dex ,and Con to stay alive in Melee (PoTD especially Plate guys with low Con get shredded in Melee)..that would mean leaving out Int which will lessen your support (your actua l job) abilities like auras and buff/Lay on Hands nerf..Also if you do not take Dex you will hit slowly in Plate and need Resolve so you don't get interrupted...you see what I am getting at?

 

Its tough an offtank/damage dealer paladin definitely could use high Per as its a class with crap accuracy BUT it just has too many other things to do.  I think with the point spread the way it is now the way to go on Paladin is either Tank (even with the new AI you need one IMHO), or Durable off tank damage dealer.  You are not going to get the full dps experience. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by Torm51

[Killyox]

CON got changed. You could say buffed AND nerfed because those who put points there get more bang for buck, those who dump it get more of a hit to them than before :D

 

Per is pretty decent imo. Would consider it on many chars :>

Edited August 26, 2015 by Killyox

[dogeddie]

It's a hard class to spec. I don't recall Constitution as being a recommended Paladin attribute pre version 2.0 either

[Torm51]

It was not. Because you could stack deflection by taking Per and Res. You cannot do so anymore and all the mobs have perception so accuracy has gone up across the board while Def has lowered. Meaning in melee you will get hit more often. You need more Con. Also something ignored is your Fort Defense. As a Paladin Will is easy to get because of Res and Righteous Soul and reflex can be covered by Weapon and Shield style. Taking a good CON will raise your weakest defense which gets attacked a lot.

[dogeddie]

If I leave Perception at 10 (seems so weird now) - I assume my dialogue options will be less than they were; although I will gain from the increased Int.

 

Torm, with a Might of 10 I assume your build is tank only? Gotta love a guy with a shield who can take a beating and laugh it off!

[Torm51]

Unfortunately yes. Although I'm thinking of leaving Int at 10, raising con to 16-18 and putting my last fee points in Might. Some people on this forum say a full time tank is useless but that's not my experience.

 

I just can't figure out how to make a melee dpser who isn't a rogue (rogues have escapes) stand up right in combat. They just get smoked on PoTD.

 

I am by no means the Paladin expert though I would like to be enlightened on how to make a good tank whose capable offensively. Maybe I'm not smart enough lol but it seems to me that the Devs really intended offense or defense. Not both

[dogeddie]

Yes, one does like to dish out a little pain once in a while rather than being a punching bag. I think I'll try mostly tank, with a pathetic attempt at some equally pathetic damage. Not sure how to fit in the dialogue options yet!

 

One more thing: Is it possible to get both Flames of Devotion AND Lay on Hands for my Paladin?

Edited August 26, 2015 by dogeddie

[Torm51]

Yes you can. It's an ability so you will have an opportunity to take it every odd level.

[View619]

Unfortunately yes. Although I'm thinking of leaving Int at 10, raising con to 16-18 and putting my last fee points in Might. Some people on this forum say a full time tank is useless but that's not my experience.

 

I just can't figure out how to make a melee dpser who isn't a rogue (rogues have escapes) stand up right in combat. They just get smoked on PoTD.

 

I am by no means the Paladin expert though I would like to be enlightened on how to make a good tank whose capable offensively. Maybe I'm not smart enough lol but it seems to me that the Devs really intended offense or defense. Not both

 

Weapon set switching. Also, talents that improve weapon accuracy and graze to hit chance if you're set on using large shields.

[Torm51]

 

Unfortunately yes. Although I'm thinking of leaving Int at 10, raising con to 16-18 and putting my last fee points in Might. Some people on this forum say a full time tank is useless but that's not my experience.

 

I just can't figure out how to make a melee dpser who isn't a rogue (rogues have escapes) stand up right in combat. They just get smoked on PoTD.

 

I am by no means the Paladin expert though I would like to be enlightened on how to make a good tank whose capable offensively. Maybe I'm not smart enough lol but it seems to me that the Devs really intended offense or defense. Not both

 

Weapon set switching. Also, talents that improve weapon accuracy and graze to hit chance if you're set on using large shields.

 

Agreed weapon switching makes semi competent.  I guess with the extra talent now you can fit an offensive talent but I used to find it hard with 6.  Maybe I am just being too defensive but for a Paladin whose intent is getting in the way and being a hard target I always go with:

 

Weapon and Shield Style, Cautious Attack, Superior Deflection and Deep Faith. Those are musts maybe not Deep Faith....its _+2 Deflection and +5 to the rest of your defenses but that stacked on a full Faith and Conviction is damn good.

 

That leaves  3 talents thanks to the xpack.  Most order talents unfortunately aren't worth it so I usually put the last talents into Saves Defense like Bears Fort and Snakes Reflex.  Also if you took Lay on Hands you probably want Greater Lay on Hands as your Health gets a lot higher as you level.  Its just tough to fit in.

[Torm51]

I have been doing weapon switching to a heavy one hander so it gives me high accuracy or a 2hander and it does definitely help.  Hitting stuff for 25 points on a defensive character is good.

[dogeddie]

so when do you switch to the heavy weapon - before or during a fight? No comprendo this theory

 

also, any suggestions on stats for a "durable off tank damage dealer" type?

Edited August 26, 2015 by dogeddie

[View619]

so when do you switch to the heavy weapon - before or during a fight? No comprendo this theory

 

also, any suggestions on stats for a "durable off tank damage dealer" type?

 

Switch during the fight depending on the situation.

 

1. Run into battle with a shield, hold long enough for CC to go off, switch to damaging weapon to capitalize.
2. Switch weapon, engage unit that's trying to rush your back-line. Benefit from the instant disengagement strike if they don't stop.
3. Divide up enemy engagement among other units, switch to damaging weapon to reduce numbers faster.

etc.

[dogeddie]

 

so when do you switch to the heavy weapon - before or during a fight? No comprendo this theory

 

also, any suggestions on stats for a "durable off tank damage dealer" type?

 

Switch during the fight depending on the situation.

 

1. Run into battle with a shield, hold long enough for CC to go off, switch to damaging weapon to capitalize.
2. Switch weapon, engage unit that's trying to rush your back-line. Benefit from the instant disengagement strike if they don't stop.
3. Divide up enemy engagement among other units, switch to damaging weapon to reduce numbers faster.

etc.

 

sorry, this noob doesn't know what CC is

[Torm51]

 

 

so when do you switch to the heavy weapon - before or during a fight? No comprendo this theory

 

also, any suggestions on stats for a "durable off tank damage dealer" type?

 

Switch during the fight depending on the situation.

 

1. Run into battle with a shield, hold long enough for CC to go off, switch to damaging weapon to capitalize.
2. Switch weapon, engage unit that's trying to rush your back-line. Benefit from the instant disengagement strike if they don't stop.
3. Divide up enemy engagement among other units, switch to damaging weapon to reduce numbers faster.

etc.

 

sorry, this noob doesn't know what CC is

 

Its alright everyone is new to RPGs at some point. CC= Crowd Control.  So abilities like a Wizards Slicken, A Fighters Knockdown, a Priests Knock down Seal.  Something that makes the enemy lose control of their movement and for future reference a debuff is an ability that places a temperoary negative effect on an enemy like a Ciphers Eyestrike or a Rogues Blinding Strike.  Wizards have a lot of Debuffs.  As do Ciphers.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Torm51

[dogeddie]

Thanks. Here is my "durable off tank damage dealer" as Torm put it

 

Might - 14

Con - 14

Dex - 10

Per - 12

Int - 10

Res - 18

 

Human Aedyr Shieldbearer - don't want to change these

Pretty much a jack of all trades tank but master of none. Durable

Should be able to take a hit and at least have a small offense and some basic widespread abilities

And I am definitely NOT a powergamer

Edited August 27, 2015 by dogeddie

[Torm51]

Definitely a good set up for non min maxing my build is almost exactly the same. Personally I don't like humans for tanks but it's a small thing. But if you want it for the RP go for it!

[Judicator]

Thanks. Here is my "durable off tank damage dealer" as Torm put it

 

Might - 14

Con - 14

Dex - 10

Per - 12

Int - 10

Res - 18

 

Human Aedyr Shieldbearer - don't want to change these

Pretty much a jack of all trades tank but master of none. Durable

Should be able to take a hit and at least have a small offense and some basic widespread abilities

And I am definitely NOT a powergamer

Those 2 points in Per aren't really going to do much. I'd put them in Might if I were you.

[KDubya]

 

Thanks. Here is my "durable off tank damage dealer" as Torm put it

 

Might - 14

Con - 14

Dex - 10

Per - 12

Int - 10

Res - 18

 

Human Aedyr Shieldbearer - don't want to change these

Pretty much a jack of all trades tank but master of none. Durable

Should be able to take a hit and at least have a small offense and some basic widespread abilities

And I am definitely NOT a powergamer

Those 2 points in Per aren't really going to do much. I'd put them in Might if I were you.

 

 

The +2 per caption would get you +2 accuracy, +2 reflex and +6 interrupt compared to might getting you +6% damage and +2 fortitude.

 

At deflection=accuracy

0-15 miss

16-50 graze 0.35*0.5 = 0.175

51-100 hit  0.50*1 = 0.5

 

Total 0.675 unit damage

 

0-13 miss

14-48 graze 0.35*0.5 = 0.175

49-98 hit  0.5*1 = 0.5

99-100 crit  0.02*1.5 = 0.03

 

Total = 0.705 unit damage

 

With a mundane weapon and no damage talents the 16 might guy does (1 + 0.18 )*0.675 = 0.7965 unit damage

The 14 might guy does (1+0.12)*0.705 = 0.7896 unit damage

The guy with more might does more damage.

 

Now add in an exceptional weapon at +45% damage

16 might does (1+0.18+0.45)*0.675 = 1.10025 unit damage

14 might does (1+0.12+0.45)*0.705 = 1.10685 unit damage

The guy with more accuracy does more damage.

 

The accuracy will help more against tougher foes. The more additional sources of damage you have the less important that might is. Going with 12 might and 14 perception would not be a bad option either and would open up some dialogues as well.

Edited August 28, 2015 by KDubya

[Judicator]

Might helps with other things, though. Like healing.

[Torm51]

Ya dude this is the eternal struggle with a Paladin.  You always miss out on something.  The spat spread is big.  Might is useful, Con is now useful, Intellect is useful, Per is useful (although the game says it isn't for the class I don't get it its a low accuracy class) and of course Resolve.  I don't think I am ever happy about how I spec a Paladin cause I am always missing out on something haha.

[dogeddie]

Ya dude this is the eternal struggle with a Paladin.  You always miss out on something.  The spat spread is big.  Might is useful, Con is now useful, Intellect is useful, Per is useful (although the game says it isn't for the class I don't get it its a low accuracy class) and of course Resolve.  I don't think I am ever happy about how I spec a Paladin cause I am always missing out on something haha.

and the more you read the more confused you get! With Percep at 12 I was trying to at least give the big lug a lttle bit of a chance to hit something...

Edited August 28, 2015 by dogeddie

[Torm51]

Honestly the Attributes you put are fine and you could beat the game if you specced and played properly on any difficulty.

 

Honestly, you have the idea right for the build you want.  Depending how you spec you can either tank with good support buffing thanks to the decent Int  or offtank and dish out respectable damage with good support buffs.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Torm51