Melee Rogue in patch 2.0

[Myrten]

I'm thinking about my character for my next playthrough and I'm pretty much decided on playing as melee rogue (with npc, on hard)

 

At this moment I think best option would be using two handed estoc + retaliation plate armor  with high constitution and riposte so my enemies would die before me. 

 

Here's my build:

Attributes:

M: 18

C: 15

D: 20

P: 19

I: 3

R: 3

 

 

Abilities:

Lvl 1: Cripling Strike

Lvl 3: Reckless Assault:

Lvl 5: Riposte

Lvl 7: Escape

Lvl 9: Deep Wounds

Lvl 11: Deathblows

 

Talents:

Lvl 2: Backstab

Lvl 4: Savage Attack

Lvl 6: Shadowing Beyond

Lvl 8: Two Handed Style

Lvl 10: Weapon Focus - Adventurer (Estoc)

Lvl 12: Vulnerable Attack

 

Skills:

Stealth: Max

Athletics: 3

 

Any ideas how to make this better, or maybe I'm doing something dumb?

Edited August 25, 2015 by Myrten

[KDubya]

I've never read anything good about riposte.

 

It looks like your deflection will be quite poor with reckless assault and a 3 resolve, meaning you'll get hit quite often. Only misses can activate riposte and only 20% of the time.

 

Also with a 3 resolve your concentration will be quite low and you'll get interrupted frequently. But this might not matter if the enemy is busy with someone else when your rogue bushwacks him with a vicious two handed estoc.

 

Another problem might be a really low will save from a dumped intellect and a dumped resolve.

 

Instead of plate might be better to go with leather or something lighter since you won't want to be in a slugfest, so quicker actions will help you kill faster. But that would be going against your whole concept.

 

If you want to run with the concept of plate + retaliation + high con it'd probably work fine. I'd seriously consider dropping the riposte unless it has some sort of redesign in 2.0.

[bigwillystyle]

No Dirty Fighting and Vicious Fighting makes the Baby Jesus cry.    I'm not sure why you would voluntarily forgo a 20% hit-to-crit rate boost?

[Myrten]

I've never read anything good about riposte.

 

It looks like your deflection will be quite poor with reckless assault and a 3 resolve, meaning you'll get hit quite often. Only misses can activate riposte and only 20% of the time.

I had a nice riposte/retaliation tank concept back in 1.1 which worked quite well. Are you sure that riposte now only works on misses? In that case I agree it's doesn't make much sense.

 

Also with a 3 resolve your concentration will be quite low and you'll get interrupted frequently. But this might not matter if the enemy is busy with someone else when your rogue bushwacks him with a vicious two handed estoc.

 

Another problem might be a really low will save from a dumped intellect and a dumped resolve.

I see your point - this character will be very bad in defense even with high con and plate armor. Low will save is a weak point of course, I know it can cause problems but it's rare.

 

 

Instead of plate might be better to go with leather or something lighter since you won't want to be in a slugfest, so quicker actions will help you kill faster. But that would be going against your whole concept.

 

If you want to run with the concept of plate + retaliation + high con it'd probably work fine. I'd seriously consider dropping the riposte unless it has some sort of redesign in 2.0.

I think I've tried doing 'Jack of All Things' character too much and I should either go for pure dps with light or no armor or tank with shield and deflection stats.

[Myrten]

No Dirty Fighting and Vicious Fighting makes the Baby Jesus cry.    I'm not sure why you would voluntarily forgo a 20% hit-to-crit rate boost?

They are not that big on DPS, remember crit is only +50% damage and multipliers are additive. In best case it's only 20% *50% = 10% more damage.Furthermore - what would you replace?

[Jarmo]

What's the reasoning behind 2-handed weapon instead of dual wielding lights?

[Myrten]

What's the reasoning behind 2-handed weapon instead of dual wielding lights?

According to this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vDm5MOrCK6S95h5u0EzZbGTv_u_rYqjuO0-zupqk0_A/edit#gid=1264774515 (I'm not sure if it's up to date but it looks so) Estoc does more damage then two stilettos. But I guess I'll have to go dual anyway as soul-bound weapons are restricted by class so no 2-handed for rogue :/

[Jarmo]

 

What's the reasoning behind 2-handed weapon instead of dual wielding lights?

According to this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vDm5MOrCK6S95h5u0EzZbGTv_u_rYqjuO0-zupqk0_A/edit#gid=1264774515 (I'm not sure if it's up to date but it looks so) Estoc does more damage then two stilettos. But I guess I'll have to go dual anyway as soul-bound weapons are restricted by class so no 2-handed for rogue :/

 

 

I don't think that accounts for rogue damage bonuses, which are more the more hits you get in.

Anyway, still thinking my options. Guess I'll go arquebus/dual something rogue myself.

[Myrten]

 

 

What's the reasoning behind 2-handed weapon instead of dual wielding lights?

According to this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vDm5MOrCK6S95h5u0EzZbGTv_u_rYqjuO0-zupqk0_A/edit#gid=1264774515 (I'm not sure if it's up to date but it looks so) Estoc does more damage then two stilettos. But I guess I'll have to go dual anyway as soul-bound weapons are restricted by class so no 2-handed for rogue :/

 

 

I don't think that accounts for rogue damage bonuses, which are more the more hits you get in.

Anyway, still thinking my options. Guess I'll go arquebus/dual something rogue myself.

 

You mean sneak attacks on debuffed emenies? Remember you can get these debuffs from other classes.

[Myrten]

Another question - if I go for glass cannon build - should I go for Intelect for higher debuff duration or resolve for not having terrible deflection

[KDubya]

I value resolve more than intellect on a melee rogue, helps with dialogue as well.

[bigwillystyle]

 

No Dirty Fighting and Vicious Fighting makes the Baby Jesus cry.    I'm not sure why you would voluntarily forgo a 20% hit-to-crit rate boost?

They are not that big on DPS, remember crit is only +50% damage and multipliers are additive. In best case it's only 20% *50% = 10% more damage.Furthermore - what would you replace?

 

 

Fair point.  That said - it should be higher than 10% on an effective basis - you're likely to get the Merciless hand, which adds another 0.3 to crit multiplier.  Same with Dungeon Delver for another 0.1.  Crits also help you punch through DR more effectively when they trigger. 

 

Not applicable in your current build, but I'm a big fan of effect on crit / crit multiplier weapons like Tall Grass or The Hours of St. Rumbault.  

 

I personally am not keen on Backstab or Shadowing Beyond at all, but your mileage may vary in version 2.0.  (You had asked what I'd drop)

 

On your other question, Intellect vs. Resolve, I'd drop Intellect first.  Its accelerates Deep Wounds when dropped (ticks faster, ticks punch through DR more effectively), and Resolve can legitimately help if you're going to be potentially interrupted. 

Looks like a fun build either way, hope you have a good time with it.

[MasterCipher]

Pre-expansion comments:

 

Riposte is viable in a high deflection build, which is hard to do without a shield and is only useful if your rogue is the MT.

 

It seems like you are more interested in dps so go with a crit build.

Estocs are very appealing but fall behind a great sword with annihilation (+50% damage on crit). Duel sabers with annihilation are theoretically even more overall damage, but a greatsword with knockdown or even a reach weapon is easier. 

[L4wlight]

 

What's the reasoning behind 2-handed weapon instead of dual wielding lights?

According to this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vDm5MOrCK6S95h5u0EzZbGTv_u_rYqjuO0-zupqk0_A/edit#gid=1264774515 (I'm not sure if it's up to date but it looks so) Estoc does more damage then two stilettos. But I guess I'll have to go dual anyway as soul-bound weapons are restricted by class so no 2-handed for rogue :/

 

Actually there is an soul-bound estoc without any class restriction.

[Boeroer]

Yeah? What does it do? Because I just decided to use Hours of St. Rumbalt (Annihilation, Overbearing) with my rogue instead of Estocs (White Spire or Blade of the Endless Paths).

[L4wlight]

At 0:46+ you can see the first stage of the weapon.

[Killyox]

don't like to dump stats, also with res3 you will be constantly interrupted and pretty much stunlocked since enemies go for the weakest guy, at least in 2.0. My 8 deflection rogue learned it the hard way :D