Do Cautious Attack/shields affect spellcasting?

[Khashir]

I'm not sure if the description (-attack speed) applies to spellcasting as well, and I vaguely recall reading something about shields affecting spellcasting (for some reason, I recall it had to do with Speed, though I'm thinking it's more likely the Accuracy penalty of big shields)?

 

Thanks!

Edited June 26, 2015 by Khashir

[Nobear]

I'm not sure if the description (-attack speed) applies to spellcasting as well, and I vaguely recall reading something about shields affecting spellcasting (for some reason, I recall it had to do with Speed, though I'm thinking it's more likely the Accuracy penalty of big shields)?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Edit: Raven's got the answer below.

 

As for my thoughts/advice, I find even on PoTD, as long as you have two tanks and position fights well at the beginning, it's rare that your back row gets hit. And in the exceptions, like fights with Shades and Shadows, I have found it more effective to focus fire on the enemy that has gotten to your back row, rather than playing defensively. I have tried the same Shade/Shadow fights with everyone wearing plate armor, ignoring the teleporting Shadows and trying to focus on the Shades. From personal experience, the DPS loss outweighs the benefit. Even with good heals, your back row eventually dies from loss of Health, not Endurance, and more Shadows spawn in the meantime. I have beat these same fights a lot more cleanly by focus firing each enemy that gets to my back line. Just when you think you need defense most on your back row, what you really need is good CC and DPS.

 

So I wouldn't take Weapon and Shield style or ever use shields personally on a non-tank character. If you can't find better talents, I suppose some defensive ones that don't depend on a shield could be alright, but I'd give preference to DPS. You can't use a wand with a shield anyway (say, for Rot Skulls). And yes, any shield bigger than the smallest kind will incur an accuracy penalty, and the small shield's defense is most definitely not worth giving up DPS for.

 

Some people may disagree, but this is from PoTD experience.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Nobear

[Raven Darkholme]

Shield does not affect spells, cautious attack does.

[Khashir]

Thanks fellas!

[Bubbles]

Shield does not affect spells, cautious attack does.

 

I really wish people would check their facts before making these kinds of statements. The Accuracy penalty of larger shields fully applies to spellcasting as well.

[Nobear]

 

Shield does not affect spells, cautious attack does.

 

I really wish people would check their facts before making these kinds of statements. The Accuracy penalty of larger shields fully applies to spellcasting as well.

 

The OP was thinking there might be a speed penalty (which there isn't), but you're right, there's the accuracy penalty. In any case, I'm not a fan of shields for non-tanks.

[MadDemiurg]

Small shields have no accuracy penalty though and thus are a very good for any caster who does not attack with a weapon. It's also worth mentioning that cautious attack does not stack with deflection boosting spells.

Edited June 27, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Kriber22]

Since we've diverged somewhat from the OP's question I don't feel too bad about asking this; does equipping a weapon that gives bonuses or penalties to Accuracy also affect the Accuracy of spells and abilities? If I give Durance a firearm, will that penalty also affect his spells? And vice versa with a Fine weapon?

[Vorad]

Since we've diverged somewhat from the OP's question I don't feel too bad about asking this; does equipping a weapon that gives bonuses or penalties to Accuracy also affect the Accuracy of spells and abilities? If I give Durance a firearm, will that penalty also affect his spells? And vice versa with a Fine weapon?

I'm afraid it doesn't, you can easily check it with a rapier, it doesn't work.

[Nobear]

Small shields have no accuracy though and thus are a very good for any caster who does not attack with a weapon. It's also worth mentioning that cautious attack does not stack with deflection boosting spells.

 

Deflection boosting spells would be things like a Shieldbearer paladin's talents? So one of these would be suppressed if both were active?

 

What about deflection-boosting items (I assume they stack, since they are in a different category) and talents that directly increase deflection, like Superior Deflection and Faith and Conviction?

 

PS I still argue for the value of a ranged weapon for between spells being higher than the situational value of a small shield, but to each his own. Perhaps from level 9 (and moreso from 11) some casters might not have occasion to fire off a shot in most battles. That's the logic I gather...

Edited June 27, 2015 by Nobear

[MadDemiurg]

 

Small shields have no accuracy though and thus are a very good for any caster who does not attack with a weapon. It's also worth mentioning that cautious attack does not stack with deflection boosting spells.

 

Deflection boosting spells would be things like a Shieldbearer paladin's talents? So one of these would be suppressed if both were active?

 

What about deflection-boosting items (I assume they stack, since they are in a different category) and talents that directly increase deflection, like Superior Deflection and Faith and Conviction?

 

PS I still argue for the value of a ranged weapon for between spells being higher than the situational value of a small shield, but to each his own. Perhaps from level 9 (and moreso from 11) some casters might not have occasion to fire off a shot in most battles. That's the logic I gather...

 

Passive deflection talents stack with everything. Some actives do stack too and I haven't tested shieldbearer's talent specifically as I've never really used one. However wizards spells like displaced image or priest spells like shields for the faithful do not stack with cautious attack, it's one or the other.

 

As for ranged weapon and shield, no one prevents you from having both and switching to shield if attacked directly (or using a shield while casting spells and switching to a ranged weapon for auto attacking if needed). It's also possible to combine this with quickswitch, but quickswitch is extremely cheesy on casters as it overrides the spell recovery, so I tend to avoid it.

[Nobear]

Passive deflection talents stack with everything. Some actives do stack too and I haven't tested shieldbearer's talent specifically as I've never really used one. However wizards spells like displaced image or priest spells like shields for the faithful do not stack with cautious attack, it's one or the other.

 

Hm do you know if the fighter's Defender is subject to the same suppression mechanics as Cautious Attack? In other words, would Circle of Protection be of zero use for a fighter with Wary Defender?

 

Update: The answer is no, just tested it . Wary Defender does stack with Circle of Protection. So many inconsistent mechanics in this game, I am always restarting to adjust my build because I learn of a new one!

Edited June 27, 2015 by Nobear

[MadDemiurg]

Circle of protection gives +x to all defenses, so it is treated as a different bonus than +x to a particular defense. To make it more clear, if an ability says +x to all defenses and another ability says +x to deflection/will/fort/ref these are actually 5 separate effects (2nd ability is composed of 4 effects), which are considered different and thus do stack.

Circle of protection will not stack with vigorous defense fighter active though, and Wary Defender's deflection bonus will be suppressed by smth like Shields for the Faithful, while say, will bonus, will not stack with priest's Meditation.

Edited June 27, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Nobear]

Circle of protection gives +x to all defenses, so it is treated as a different bonus than +x to a particular defense. To make it more clear, if an ability says +x to all defenses and another ability says +x to deflection/will/fort/ref these are actually 5 different effects (2nd ability is composed of 4 effects), which are considered different and thus do stack.

Circle of protection will not stack with vigorous defense fighter active though, and Wary Defender's deflection bonus will be suppressed by smth like Shields for the Faithful, while say, will bonus, will not stack with priest's Meditation.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I'm considering not taking Vigorous Defense on Eder anyway. I'm ok with his only active being knockdown, and getting more passive abilities (both defensive and offensive) instead. My other characters are more active.