Planning my PoTD party

[HoopleDoople]

I'm currently progressing rapidly through my first play through on normal difficulty. I've enjoyed things being a bit laid back and rather forgiving of the many poor build choices I've made, but I definitely want to challenge myself next time.

 

My goal is to have a plan put together for a PoTD play through by the time I finish on normal. In order to do this I wish to solicit advice on several issues. I don't plan to have my party be perfectly optimized, but it would be nice to understand what the optimal choices are and what I'm giving up should I forgo them.

 

Part 1 - Classes, Races, and Player Character

 

     Class

 

The first step I'd like to take is selecting the class composition of my party, which will consist of hired adventurers. I already know I want the following:

 

1) No duplicate classes, as I enjoy the variety

2) No Ranger or Paladin. The Ranger and Paladin I'm using on normal, and they haven't impressed me enough to select for this run.

3) I will be taking the Wizard and Chanter, two interesting classes I've yet to use that are regarded as quite powerful.

 

Next I'd like a solid tank. Odds are this will be a Fighter, but I'm open to other suggestions.

 

I definitely need one more reliable spell caster, probably a Priest or Druid.

 

For the last two slots I simply need to round out the party. I need to ensure I have enough classes that can survive on the front line, sufficient control spells, and enough DPS. It is unclear to me to what extent I will need healing.

 

     Race

 

It will be easier to finalize race choices once I have my six classes picked, but I can at least come up with the ideal selections based upon role. I'm considering:

 

Tank - Wild Orlan for a (sometimes) defensive bonus, Island Aumaua for greater weapon flexibility (tank/DPS/ranged options), or Moon Godlike if the healing will trigger often enough

Off-tank - Moon Godlike for healing or Hearth Orlan for DPS

Everything ranged - Wood Elf for accuracy (and thus DPS), possibly Hearth Orlan in some cases if accuracy is less important

 

     Player Character

 

Finally, I would like to identify one of my classes as the player character. Whichever class this is will get to benefit from the unique talents and abilities accessible only to the PC. However, they will have to be able to take stats useful for conversation without suffering too much in combat, if possible.

 

I am curious about the Priest as PC - is the PC only aspects of the Priest more of a boon or a restriction?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

All advice on this topic is welcome, even if your suggestions are counter to my initial thoughts. Once I've received enough feedback I'll make a decision on Part 1. I will then share my choices and then solicit advice on additional topics in a part 2 post (same thread).

[Exoduss]

Tanks - Chanter and Warrior , Warrior you can have with like 3 Might he is not gona do any damage no matter how you build him and max defenses get 5 engagement slots ( Defender+2 , Hold The Line+1 , Guarding Weapon +1) , chanter is perfect offtank it requires no micromanagement and it skills takes time to charge but are very powerful you can have him a bit weaker defense wise like 3 CON is good choice and have good might so you can have him as primary scroll user .

 

Wizard Offtank+CC+ Parasytic Staff, wizards should never ever be played as ranged in PoE , have him close to melee so he picks up runners and stuff meanwhile debuffing , PoTD has enormous amounts of trash mobs so having 3rd offtank is a good choice and wizard only needs to pop 3-4 skills to get tankier than anyone .

 

Back Line -

Ranged Rogue get Cloud Piercer as soon as possible and never think about other weapons ,

Cipher With Blunderbusses + Quick Switch ( Island Aumaua Mandatory here )

Magran Priest with Arquebus - I messed up my build while spending 2 talents for Interdiction that weakens enemies , that was kinda waste , this time i would build All the talents that gives + accuracy to arquebus , and ofcourse Gunner is mandatory .

i did Triple Crown first try with this setup .

[HoopleDoople]

I'm glad to hear the Chanter works well as an off-tank, that is exactly what I was hoping for.

 

Wizard as an off-tank surprises me though as Wizards have low endurance, health, and deflection. I'm looking into this and I'm guessing you rely on high DT armor combined with Arcane/Hardened Veil to minimize damage while you sustain endurance with the Parasitic Staff spell. What other talents or spells do you need to make this work? I'm also concerned about being dependent on limited use abilities/spells for survival. Does this end up forcing constant resting after every couple battles? (Though for all I know resting after every couple battles is standard on PoTD).

 

My concern with Ranged Rogue is that it'll play too much like the Ranger and I'd like a different experience this play through. I'd definitely be interested in trying a melee Rogue if I can work it in, however.

 

Regarding the Cipher now that the Blunderbuss isn't nearly so cheesetastic is it still worth using? I'm also not particularly interested in micromanaging multiple guns to maximize fire rate, even if it is the optimal strategy.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So right now I'm considering the following pending further information:

 

Tank - Wild Orlan Fighter

Offtank - Moon Godlike Chanter and Moon Godlike(?) Wizard

Ranged - Wood Elf Priest, Wood Elf Cipher

DPS - Hearth Orlan Rogue

 

Let me know how viable this party sounds and what weaknesses it will have.

[the streaker]

I recommend against ranged rogue. Ranger with a gun is far better in terms of dps. Also with a 3-gun backline, you set yourself up nicely to benefit from chanter's reload buff chant.

[Exoduss]

the streaker you are fundamentally wrong ,

 

Ranger will never outdamage Ranged Rogue it was discussed on these forums thousand times just dont start it better read up instead of proclaiming stuff ,

Also for ranger to reach atleast 70% of rogues damage you need quickswitch and blunderbusses that cipher is using , no way some crappy ranger reloading arquebus or arbalest will come close to the ranged rogue this is not possible w/e you say or think its just not true , this is not something i proclaim like you did  , just read up forum posts about this there was hundred of pages of discussion about this  . Also its better to use Fire weapon chant anyway .

[Razorchain]

You have no need for a might 2 tank that does nothing but being hit. I recommend an agressive frontline instead. High deflection isnt going to save you anyway, the hardest fights are when you have been spammed by insect swarms or mass dominated/confused/paralyzed/blinded or all at once.

 

Those people who tell you to hide behind a might 2 Orlan with maxed out deflection are girly men who are only gimping themselves .

 

I recommend a Pale Elf Chanter with a shield in the front

Aumaua fighter with a 21 might either specced for Estoc or Greatsword. He's going to hit like a truck if you do a weapon master build with a Wary defender for survivability.

Moon Godlike Monk. Max Might and Dex and forget about deflection its not going to save you. Put him in Sanguine Plate and Shod-in-faith and goe through your foes like a pummeling wrecking ball.

 

Backliners

I agree that a Arquebus wielding priest of maghran is a great build. Wood elf or a aumaua for a extra weapon slot.

Cipher, whatever not my favorite class after the nerf. Using one now though with a couple of arquebuses, decent for a paralyze assasinations alongside your priest. Woodelf to hit things and make your spells stick.

Wizard I prefer a wood elf or pale elf depending on the mood. With a quickswitch great as an offtank. Yes sometimes the 4th melee will come in handy unless youre going to cheese every door and avoid all outdoor fights.

 

Accuracy is everything the first 4 levels on Potd and if you are going with an offensive build then moon godlike is much better with high might.

 

After lvl 4 most everything is a cakewalk discounting 4-5 fights, you just need to know when you are ready to pick those fights

Edited May 23, 2015 by Razorchain

[Raven Darkholme]

You have no need for a might 2 tank that does nothing but being hit. I recommend an agressive frontline instead. High deflection isnt going to save you anyway, the hardest fights are when you have been spammed by insect swarms or mass dominated/confused/paralyzed/blinded or all at once.

 

Those people who tell you to hide behind a might 2 Orlan with maxed out deflection are girly men who are only gimping themselves .

 

I recommend a Pale Elf Chanter with a shield in the front

Aumaua fighter with a 21 might either specced for Estoc or Greatsword. He's going to hit like a truck if you do a weapon master build with a Wary defender for survivability.

Moon Godlike Monk. Max Might and Dex and forget about deflection its not going to save you. Put him in Sanguine Plate and Shod-in-faith and goe through your foes like a pummeling wrecking ball.

 

Backliners

I agree that a Arquebus wielding priest of maghran is a great build. Wood elf or a aumaua for a extra weapon slot.

Cipher, whatever not my favorite class after the nerf. Using one now though with a couple of arquebuses, decent for a paralyze assasinations alongside your priest. Woodelf to hit things and make your spells stick.

Wizard I prefer a wood elf or pale elf depending on the mood. With a quickswitch great as an offtank. Yes sometimes the 4th melee will come in handy unless youre going to cheese every door and avoid all outdoor fights.

While I agree about the 2 MIG bit, I don't agree about the deflection part. You can have high might and max def on PC paladins or even non PC fighters. Paladin also would have high saves.

[Razorchain]

 

 

You have no need for a might 2 tank that does nothing but being hit. I recommend an agressive frontline instead. High deflection isnt going to save you anyway, the hardest fights are when you have been spammed by insect swarms or mass dominated/confused/paralyzed/blinded or all at once.

 

Those people who tell you to hide behind a might 2 Orlan with maxed out deflection are girly men who are only gimping themselves .

 

I recommend a Pale Elf Chanter with a shield in the front

Aumaua fighter with a 21 might either specced for Estoc or Greatsword. He's going to hit like a truck if you do a weapon master build with a Wary defender for survivability.

Moon Godlike Monk. Max Might and Dex and forget about deflection its not going to save you. Put him in Sanguine Plate and Shod-in-faith and goe through your foes like a pummeling wrecking ball.

 

Backliners

I agree that a Arquebus wielding priest of maghran is a great build. Wood elf or a aumaua for a extra weapon slot.

Cipher, whatever not my favorite class after the nerf. Using one now though with a couple of arquebuses, decent for a paralyze assasinations alongside your priest. Woodelf to hit things and make your spells stick.

Wizard I prefer a wood elf or pale elf depending on the mood. With a quickswitch great as an offtank. Yes sometimes the 4th melee will come in handy unless youre going to cheese every door and avoid all outdoor fights.

While I agree about the 2 MIG bit, I don't agree about the deflection part. You can have high might and max def on PC paladins or even non PC fighters. Paladin also would have high saves.

I have a paladin in my current group as my main. Atm I'm level 10 in Twin Elms. He has Mig 19, Con 6 , dex 15 , per 13, int 12, Res 13. Wields a Saber and Oathsworn Buckler. He does not have cautious attacker and sure he tanks decently but the barbarian and the monk beside him are just as tough and kill twice as many enemies. His contribution to the party is carrying oathsworn buckler and providing 3 extra DR. I was going to use him for healing cause I dont have a priest but my barbarian does that in Shod-in-faith and my Monk is a moon godlike so my poor pally could have been switched out for couple of potions.

 

I think deflection is super important if you're going solo but you dont really need to deflection stack to go through potd, I'd rather pack a punch. A two handed fighter with Tidenfall will be tearing your enemies apart at lvl 6. A low might max deflection Orlan fighter is never going to contribute to a fight other than just being there hiding behind a ridiculously big shield and never hitting anything and when he hits it will be the death from thousand cuts cause he'll do so little damage.

 

This just means extra strain on your backliners who will need to use more spells and need more resting.

[HoopleDoople]

My earlier comment seems to have been kind of buried due to the delay of moderator approval. Let me repeat the party I'm currently considering:

 

Tank - Wild Orlan Fighter

Off-tank - Moon Godlike Chanter

DPS - Hearth Orlan (melee) Rogue

Ranged - Wood Elf Priest and Wood Elf Cipher(?)

??? - Wizard, race to depend on standard placement on frontline or in back

 

 

There are a few questions I still have before I wrap up part 1:

 

1. For a Fighter that is intended as a tank but won't be dumping might is Hearth Orlan optimal or is another class such as Moon Godlike preferable?
2. What is the optimal race for an off-tank Chanter?
3. Can the Wizard be a reliable frontline character or is this too dependent on spamming spells to bother with in most battles?
4. If I have no interest in micromanaging multiple guns on one character, is it worth taking a Cipher or would I be better off with a Druid?
5. Which of these classes would benefit the most from being PC and suffer the least from taking perception and/or resolve for conversations?

[the streaker]

the streaker you are fundamentally wrong ,

 

Ranger will never outdamage Ranged Rogue it was discussed on these forums thousand times just dont start it better read up instead of proclaiming stuff ,

Also for ranger to reach atleast 70% of rogues damage you need quickswitch and blunderbusses that cipher is using , no way some crappy ranger reloading arquebus or arbalest will come close to the ranged rogue this is not possible w/e you say or think its just not true , this is not something i proclaim like you did  , just read up forum posts about this there was hundred of pages of discussion about this  . Also its better to use Fire weapon chant anyway .

Really? I'm not in the mood to discuss it again here either, but what about this that proves you wrong:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78939-class-builds-ranged-ranger-ranged-rogue-melee-rogue/

Edited May 23, 2015 by the streaker

[Raven Darkholme]

I personally prefer the ranger to the rogue, too. But Exoduss you are not really "explaining" this the right way, you just sound like a ****.

Not at all saying you are one, but you won't convince somebody the way you argue.

[Razorchain]

 

My earlier comment seems to have been kind of buried due to the delay of moderator approval. Let me repeat the party I'm currently considering:

 

Tank - Wild Orlan Fighter

Off-tank - Moon Godlike Chanter

DPS - Hearth Orlan (melee) Rogue

Ranged - Wood Elf Priest and Wood Elf Cipher(?)

??? - Wizard, race to depend on standard placement on frontline or in back

 

 

There are a few questions I still have before I wrap up part 1:

 

1. For a Fighter that is intended as a tank but won't be dumping might is Hearth Orlan optimal or is another class such as Moon Godlike preferable?
2. What is the optimal race for an off-tank Chanter?
3. Can the Wizard be a reliable frontline character or is this too dependent on spamming spells to bother with in most battles?
4. If I have no interest in micromanaging multiple guns on one character, is it worth taking a Cipher or would I be better off with a Druid?
5. Which of these classes would benefit the most from being PC and suffer the least from taking perception and/or resolve for conversations?

 

1. You don't need a hearth orlan unless you are going to max Perception and Resolve, my fighters are often Aumaua for extra resistance to stun, prone. or Pale Elf to better tank Shades on low levels

 

2. Moon Godlike is very good but lends itself best to Barbarians and Monks but is good on any frontliner who's going to be taking damage, else Pale Elfs and Aumaua.

 

3.  With a quickswitch and couple of grimoires you can have a decent offtank starting at level 5 or so, you don't even have to spend a point on anything, achievable through spells.  Iron skin and deflection buffing spells.  This is why my Wizard has the WF: Adventurer, a good wand and then switch to Estoc.  Why Wand? Because it has fast attack to pew pew between spells.  But your wizard is more valuable as a spell spammer than a tank, but when excrement hits the fan it's good to have options. and also sometimes it's fun to find another role for the wizard like a spellsword.

 

4. You could give your Cipher a warbow, but after the change I think the warbow cipher is worse off because now he generates a percentage of his damage as focus.  I am using a gun switching, mage assassin cipher in a cahoots with a Ranger.  The cipher paralyzes the mage/priest and then he gets shot to snailsnot. Rinse and repeat as needed.  But I haven't played around with a cipher without a gun after the "balancing" which made the druid a more fun replacement.  I would go with a druid rather than a cipher anyday....these days at least, spamming sunbeam has never been so fun!!

 

5. Of your lineup?  Probably a chanter tank, he's going to beg for some Perception and Resolve.  Sadly he doesn't need that much Int as it has little or no effect on his chants and you'll be lucky if you manage more than one spell per fight.  Ok, let me rephrase that:  If your chanter is managing to cast lots of spells during fights then you are either a bad player or have a badly optimized party.  This is why I find chanters boring, but that is only my personal opinion, some people love them. I personally would change him out for a monk as I love monks after I realized their sado-masochistic damage potential.

[Exoduss]

Keep believing that ranger outdamage's ranged rogue , How the ranger can outdamage Deathblows please some1 explain me?

Edited May 23, 2015 by Fionavar

[MadDemiurg]

If you're not hitting with a warbow for more than 24 damage on average lategame you're doing something wrong. And that's the point where the new draining whip starts to become better than the old one.

[Exoduss]

MadDemiurg , last pillar of this forums sanity 

[HoopleDoople]

I've made a definite decision on classes I will be using and I'm somewhat happy with the races. I think I like the idea of having an extra weapon set for my Fighter and Chanter to allow them to switch between DPS, defense, and ranged as needed. Moon Godlike seems like it would work well for a lower endurance class that will be switching between front-line and ranged as needed. For my player character Chanter sounds like a reasonable choice but I'm still open to other opinions.

 

Island Amaua Fighter

Island Amaua Chanter

Hearth Orlan Rogue

Moon Godlike Wizard

Wood Elf Priest

Wood Elf Druid

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As I've reached a decision on part 1 (which I reserve the right to tweak pending new information), it's time for:

 

Part 2 - Weaponry, Attributes, and Skills

 

      Weaponry

 

I'd like to figure out what the weapon types my characters will be using so I don't end up taking really stupid Weapon Focuses (again). If there is a specific class that would better spend its talents elsewhere the weapon types it takes won't need to be from the same focus. Here's my initial take, which is definitely in need of some improvement:

 

Fighter - Soldier for 1) Great Sword 2) Warhammer and Shield 3) Arquebus

Chanter - Adventurer for 1) Flail and Shield 2) Estoc 3) Warbow/Wand

Rogue - Ruffian for 1) Dual wielding Sabre/Stiletto/Club 2) Blunderbuss/Pistol

Wizard - Adventurer for 1) Warbow/Wand 2) Estoc

Priest - Soldier for 1) Arquebus 2) Pike

Druid - ???

 

     Attributes

 

I'm not really looking for precise numbers on attributes as I am general guidelines. Should a given stat be maxed, as high as possible, middling, or dumped? Here's an example that may or may not be correct:

 

Druid: Might - high, Constitution - dump, Dexterity - high, Perception - mid, Intellect - max, Resolve - dump

 

     Skills

 

I really have no clue as to what an effective way to distribute skill points is. I assume one character should focus on Mechanics and one or more focus on lore, though I'm not sure what the maximum amount needed is. Athletics and stealth seem like abilities everyone would benefit from having a little of, though it is unclear if I need a character to focus on one of these. Survival I'm not sure if anyone should waste points in, but I could very well be wrong.

[Razorchain]

Ok, you are going to play your first potd and that means it is much better to specialize, having a specialized melee fighter than can use a bow/firearm in case he can't reach melee or for a pull or first strike or whatever is much better than specializing in both.  That has also to do with weapon sets, if you are going to spend an extra talent to learn both Shield and Two handed, that is a waste of precious talent.  

 

And when you have chosen a class it's good to define it's role and stick to it.  Tanky Chanter for example would be better off with a weapon and shield, you'll find out that your chanter is more squishy than your fighter (lower hp and no self regen) and would rather benefit from being a coastal aumaua for stun and prone resistance.  

 

You might for example make a offensive fighter with a two hander and aim for grabbing a Tidenfall a superb, draining two-handed sword and make him a Moon Godlike for extra heals and have him with a arquebus as a backup weapon.  

 

 

As for skils, just make the Rogue or the Chanter, or even your priest your mech guy and spend your other points on whatever...one with good stealth to steal everything, everybody with decent athletics so you don't have to rest all the time.

[the streaker]

Keep believing that ranger outdamage's ranged rogue , How the ranger can outdamage Deathblows please some1 explain me?

Just did, but if you can show with some basic math why the ranged rogue does better, I'll gladly accept it. Otherwise what's the point in debating this if you can't see reason or show facts?

Edited May 24, 2015 by the streaker

[Exoduss]

basic math : Sneak Attack + Deathblows > Ranger's Vicious Aim + Pet  

Also debuff you get when your pet gets slaughtered is pathetic.

 

Only advantage ranger has is Stun Shots , meanwhile they are in same tear as another great spell , If you could get Entangling Roots , Stun Shots , Master's Call and TakeDown , ranger would be beastly crowd controller but sadly he isnt now , dont see skipping stun shots for masters call , and without masters call your pet is usually ****ed . 

[the streaker]

basic math : Sneak Attack + Deathblows > Ranger's Vicious Aim + Pet  

Also debuff you get when your pet gets slaughtered is pathetic.

 

Only advantage ranger has is Stun Shots , meanwhile they are in same tear as another great spell , If you could get Entangling Roots , Stun Shots , Master's Call and TakeDown , ranger would be beastly crowd controller but sadly he isnt now , dont see skipping stun shots for masters call , and without masters call your pet is usually ****ed . 

 

OK but none of that is math, just some talk without any numbers to back it up. The damage calculations in this game are known, so it shouldn't be too hard to prove. If you're so sure of the rogue > ranger, surely you've checked them already?

Edited May 24, 2015 by the streaker

[HoopleDoople]

I'd like to ask that arguments about Ranger vs ranged Rogue be held on other threads, as neither is going to be relevant to my party.

 

I'm currently most interested in advice on the weapon types and attributes that would be most useful for the classes I've selected.

[Narla]

Just some stuff:

- Multi-gun character with quick switch are very micro intensive and repetitive. I personally disliked playing this so much that I abandonned that game.

- Distant advantage (elf racial) also gives defense vs ranged attackers.

- Rogue offtanks fine while still doing fine damage.

- At level 9 the game dramatically changes when level 1 spells become per encounter. It's hard to imagine the size of the difference before you've played it (unless you go rest at an inn after every fight?), you might wanna play until then with your current game before making big plans for your mage/druid/priest since it's possible to get to level 7 before act 2.

- Getting the main hero 4+ in all skills and 16+ in int/res/mgt seems to give the most interesting and varied dialog options in my limited experience (a couple playthroughs).

[HoopleDoople]

Just some stuff:

- Multi-gun character with quick switch are very micro intensive and repetitive. I personally disliked playing this so much that I abandonned that game.

- Distant advantage (elf racial) also gives defense vs ranged attackers.

- Rogue offtanks fine while still doing fine damage.

- At level 9 the game dramatically changes when level 1 spells become per encounter. It's hard to imagine the size of the difference before you've played it (unless you go rest at an inn after every fight?), you might wanna play until then with your current game before making big plans for your mage/druid/priest since it's possible to get to level 7 before act 2.

- Getting the main hero 4+ in all skills and 16+ in int/res/mgt seems to give the most interesting and varied dialog options in my limited experience (a couple playthroughs).

 

I was already thinking that and have rejected the idea of a multi-gun character. I'm looking to plan something that is fairly optimal but I am willing to make sacrifices like no quick switching guns for the sake of fun

 

I'm going to be finished with my first, normal difficulty playthrough by the end of the week. All my characters are max level and I fully agree that once you hit level 9 it is a huge change. My Druid and Priest immediately became ability spammers and party MVPs.

 

Having the hero 4+ in all skills seems like a neat idea. 16 might and resolve was what I was wanting for my Chanter anyway, but I wasn't sure that he needs any int. Do you think I'd be better off giving him int, picking a different one of my selected classes for my PC, or simply forgoing int for my PC?

[Exoduss]

I mean you people can play scruby characters without making forum threads , and poluting it :D ? cant you ? 

 

Also why you even consider NOT going 20 Intellect on chanter is beyond me .... INT is like the only stat that matter for a chanter , THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS 

[HoopleDoople]

I mean you people can play scruby characters without making forum threads , and poluting it :D ? cant you ? 

 

Also why you even consider NOT going 20 Intellect on chanter is beyond me .... INT is like the only stat that matter for a chanter , THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS 

 

Exoduss please keep it nice or stay out of the thread. I'm making this thread specifically so I can avoid making scrubby characters. That's why I need advice from more experienced players. And as far as "polluting" the forums, this sub-forum is presumably dedicated to soliciting and sharing advice... which is exactly what I'm doing here.

 

Now regarding INT for the Chanter I'd heard that it doesn't effect chant duration, only range. Assuming this is true (and it very well may not be) I assumed a moderate INT would more than suffice for a melee Chanter.

 

Anyone who would like please share what you think ideal attributes look like for the Chanter or any of my other selected classes. That is something I have explicitly asked for in part 2.