Companions Follow PC Into Sun in Shadow? & Planescape Questions

[thewind32]

Hi all, did anyone else felt it was weird that the unique companions would follow you blindly down the pit into Sun in Shadow?

 

Unless I remember wrongly, it was mentioned that the Burial Isle pit was a one-way ride (or at least seemed like it). In addition, you're heading down to face the powerful main antagonist, and the party might die in the fight. For people like Eder, it was acceptable since he's pretty much a very "bro" character. But what about those like Sagani? She's cool but she has a tribe and family to return to (which she looks forward to). Even if her quest had been completed, she would have to report to her tribe thus I would not expect her to jump into the pit so readily. Same goes for Kana or Pallegina who have their homeland to return to.

 

There should be some conversation initiated before the leap, where perhaps we have to convince any unwilling companions, and in the worst case, have said companion leave the party. Perhaps have them remind us that their quests are still unresolved or something. I mean, Sagani on a five year unfulfilled search and she just goes along the leap risking no return? It seems unrealistic in this regard.

 

All in all, I really loved the game, which brings me to my next question. PoE is my first game of the Infinity Engine type games (blasphemy I know, but I wasn't old enough to appreciate them or even know about them). I'm currently interested in Planescape: Torment, whose story I have read praises for. What I want to know before I make the purchase is what can I expect from it. In what way is it similar & different from PoE?

 

Thanks!

[Nonek]

I agree with the leap of faith, it seemed like a perfect place for reflection and self doubt, and perhaps even abandonment.

 

Torment is magnificent, personally i'd mod it with all of the recommended fixes, unfinished business, tweaks and of course the widescreen mod. I don't wish to be too critical of Poe but it doesn't stand up against Torment in any way except for combat and graphics, Torment is richer, deeper, more original and disturbing with a setting that uses every trick at its disposal to reinforce the core themes of the game. It is packed with a ridiculous amount of detail, and there are hints and foreshadowing present throughout that lend an air of doom and tragedy to the adventure.

 

Your stats will affect your playthrough, your actions will shape your alignment and have consequences to deal with, strange powers may be unlocked with a few words and a fleeting memory, echoes of the past may come to haunt you, and remember that all of the people you meet are their own characters: It's not like Bioware where everyone is there to massage ones ego, here characters are consistent with the world and spring to life in and of themselves. The gameworld is a glorious, gruesome, grubby and graphic character in its own right, and springs to life with a life of its own.

 

Many recommend a high int, wis and cha character, as this unlocks conversations and other more alternate options of adventuring. Personally just looking at the Nameless One I cannot help but make him physically formidable, and moderate in his other stats, and this balanced build is viable and will still unlock most content. It also makes combat far more fun and viable.

 

I envy you your fresh eyes, be prepared for one very fine game.

 

But in the end only one question matters...

[Nakia]

I think Sagani once committed to the hunt would follow you and Kana with his lust for knowledge would go out of curiosity.  Pallegina is a bit more iffy and her decision might depend on how her quest turned out.  

 

​As for enhancements to the ending sure some could be made but I think it should leave the player with a feeling of incompleteness.  Questions left unanswered, mysteries remaining.  The journey has only begun.  At least that is what I hope.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Nakia

[the streaker]

Agreed that there should at the very least be some hesitation before these people blindly jump into the hole after you.

 

Regarding Torment, I'm going to be harsh and say that it was just an 'okay' game. The story is great compared to almost any other game, but story is typically not the only (or even main) focus of a game. If you really wanted some good storytelling, there are many books that will give you something far better than PS:T. The gameplay part of that game is just a bit too lacking for me to consider it great.

[thewind32]

But in the end only one question matters...

 

Thanks for your helpful opinion on PS:T. I don't really understand your last line though.

 

I think Sagani once committed to the hunt would follow you and Kana with his lust for knowledge would go out of curiosity.  Pallegina is a bit more iffy and her decision might depend on how her quest turned out.  

 

​As for enhancements to the ending sure some could be made but I think it should leave the player with a feeling of incompleteness.  Questions left unanswered, mysteries remaining.  The journey has only begun.  At least that is what I hope.

 

Yea, Kana's curiosity would probably drive him. As for Sagani, I can understand committing to the hunt, but she still has this traditional and important task that's part of her tribe's culture for many generations. I hope there would be more of this journey too.

 

Agreed that there should at the very least be some hesitation before these people blindly jump into the hole after you.

 

Regarding Torment, I'm going to be harsh and say that it was just an 'okay' game. The story is great compared to almost any other game, but story is typically not the only (or even main) focus of a game. If you really wanted some good storytelling, there are many books that will give you something far better than PS:T. The gameplay part of that game is just a bit too lacking for me to consider it great.

 

I would have also liked to see companions doubting the choice of god(s) alignment for the leap. Say, Durance could have issues with siding with Magran after he knew the truth or something. Regarding PS:T, appreciate your view although I'll probably try it for myself before judging it, it's pretty much a big piece of rpg history after all. There goes my university break

[Zwiebelchen]

I agree that it doesn't make much sense for Sagani and Pallegina, as they have the least "drive" in their motifs.

 

But for all other characters, it pretty much makes sense:

Edér: As a goody-two-shoes and also kind of an airhead, I wouldn't expect him to complain if it's about stopping the bad guy.

Durance: Obvious why he would come along. His backstory was all about how his goddess has forsakened him; obviously he would take the leap just to show them his middlefinger.

Grieving Mother: GM has the strongest motif of all characters to follow the PC. Fixing waidwen's legacy, getting redeemed and her memory erased.

Hiravias: He is all about the hunt and "eye for an eye" ... I think it feels pretty natural that he wants to slay the bad guy.

Aloth: Well... protesting against his former master, I guess? He's one of the weaker candidates for the jump, imho, even though he's probably connected to the main story more than anyone else.

[Matt516]

Torment is fantastic. If you want to experience the most of what the game has to offer, build a character focusing on Wisdom and Charisma. Trust me.

[Tennisgolfboll]

Sagani would not hesitate.

 

She has seen the watcher slay dragons, mend souls, twist souls and she went on an endless hunt even when the trail got cold.

 

Kana would never hesitate. Nor Eder. Aloth is following you with blind faith after admitting serving the wrong master and pledging himself.

 

Hiravias....he would joke and follow.

 

Durance is insane.

GM she is broken and would do anything to end the hollowborns.

 

Pallegina is good and selfless. If you convince here to follow her orders and do a "evil" trade agreement against dyrwood, even though she gets high rank in her order it haunts her for the rest of her days. She would never back down from facing thaos.

 

Pretty much all of the companions are determined/crazy/loyal etc. And of course the watcher has some crazy ass power and inspiration (deeds and prescense)

 

I think it would have made no sense with them fleeing there at the end.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Tennisgolfboll

[Crucis]

Hi all, did anyone else felt it was weird that the unique companions would follow you blindly down the pit into Sun in Shadow?

 

Unless I remember wrongly, it was mentioned that the Burial Isle pit was a one-way ride (or at least seemed like it). In addition, you're heading down to face the powerful main antagonist, and the party might die in the fight. For people like Eder, it was acceptable since he's pretty much a very "bro" character. But what about those like Sagani? She's cool but she has a tribe and family to return to (which she looks forward to). Even if her quest had been completed, she would have to report to her tribe thus I would not expect her to jump into the pit so readily. Same goes for Kana or Pallegina who have their homeland to return to.

 

There should be some conversation initiated before the leap, where perhaps we have to convince any unwilling companions, and in the worst case, have said companion leave the party. Perhaps have them remind us that their quests are still unresolved or something. I mean, Sagani on a five year unfulfilled search and she just goes along the leap risking no return? It seems unrealistic in this regard.

 

All in all, I really loved the game, which brings me to my next question. PoE is my first game of the Infinity Engine type games (blasphemy I know, but I wasn't old enough to appreciate them or even know about them). I'm currently interested in Planescape: Torment, whose story I have read praises for. What I want to know before I make the purchase is what can I expect from it. In what way is it similar & different from PoE?

 

Thanks!

 

I agree with you that it would have been a really good idea for there to be a moment where the party members each had something to say prior to jumping down the hole.  It would have been like that point in BG2 where just before you go to confront Irenicus on that tree area, all of your BG2 companions had something to say.

 

 

 

I'm undecided about Sagani and whether she'd be willing to take the leap.  On one hand, she seems very loyal, but then again all of the Companions do.  But on the other hand, maybe she more than any other character seems to have a strong reason (5 years away from her family and village) to leave the party after completing her question.  To me, none of the other Companions even seem to come close to having any reason (other than, I suppose, not wanting to die) for wanting to leave the party.

 

I suppose from a game design standpoint, I could see the possibility that a lot of players might be unhappy if Sagani left their party right before jumping into the hole.  These players may have invested a lot of time building up Sagani and working her into their plans for the party, and would be ticked off if she bailed on them at the last moment.

 

But from a "realism" PoV, I could easily see Sagani desperately missing her family and wanting to head back to Nassituq immediately after completing her personal quest, though if this was going to happen in the storyline, it might be better if Sagani clearly told the Watcher that she'd be leaving to go home as soon as she found Parsuq (?) to at least it didn't come as a complete, out of the blue shocker.

 

 

To a much lesser degree, I could see Kana at least having some second thoughts about whether he should head back to Rarutai (?).  But frankly, the way I perceive his character, I see Kana as being someone who would be more than happy to stick with the Watcher out of a sense of wanting to keep seeing more of the world and learning new things and so on.  He seems like a very adventurous yet scholarly type.

 

 

Eder's easy.  As others have said, he's the broest of bros.  He'll stick with the Watcher until the end, no matter what. 

 

Aloth will stick with the Watcher to the very end because he wants to put an end to Thaos and his schemes and stop the Leaden Key.

 

Durance will stick with the Watcher to the very end because he feels that he's testing the Watcher.  And that Test doesn't end until the very end. 

 

I think that GM would stick with the Watcher to the very end because she cares deeply about ending the scourge of the Hollowborn.  That seems like reason enough.

 

Pallegina's official mission may be over with the trade deal, but she still seems like a paladin who wants to right wrongs and defend the people of the Dyrwood, even if they're not her own (Vaillian) people, against the evil of Thaos.  And for her, that seems like all the reason she needs to stick with the Watcher.

 

As for Hiravias, I don't really know.  I haven't played him for any length of time, so I don't have a good handle on his personality.

[player1]

 

I don't wish to be too critical of Poe but it doesn't stand up against Torment in any way except for combat and graphics,

 

Truth to be told, any Infinity engine, or Infinity engine inspired game stands up better against Torment in combat. That is hardly the praise.

 

On the other hand, Torment graphics are still ageless and look great even after all these years (exempt those 3d scenes).

[TT1]

I really think Sun in Shadow should be for the player only. I will dismiss all my companions before Burial Island in my next gameplay.

 

Actually, it will increase difficult and I think will be more interesting.

[Nonek]

 

 

I don't wish to be too critical of Poe but it doesn't stand up against Torment in any way except for combat and graphics,

 

Truth to be told, any Infinity engine, or Infinity engine inspired game stands up better against Torment in combat. That is hardly the praise.

 

On the other hand, Torment graphics are still ageless and look great even after all these years (exempt those 3d scenes).

 

 

I would say that is down to art design rather than graphics myself, then again the source material was very distinct.

[Talwyn224]

I think that the companions should only follow you into the Sun in Shadow only if you've completed their own personal quest lines. It shows that you have helped them with their personal agendas and so they will return the favour.

 

I didn't take Sagani in because of all the companions, I felt [from an RP perspective] the she deserved to go home to her family after we'd completed her quest. Taking her into sun in Shadow seems very selfish and since I was playing a kind wayfarer paladin, that sort of felt like the wrong thing to do. I also didn't take GM as she needed to be useful to the world once more. Durance was an easy choice as he was seeking answers and he needed to confront Thaos and the evil he'd done. Eder was just a stalwart dude who you knew would have your back so no problem there in asking. Pallengina being a paladin has no problem facing up to evil and possible death so she's an obvious choice. Aloth needs to come as he needs to help you end the Leaden Key and finally Hiravias should come as he like the idea of the hunt and Thaos is the one you've been stalking all this time.