One repeatedly answered question again..Warbow or Arbalest?

[Crucis]

 

 

Showing your age Crucis?

Seriously can't we create a forum for the oldies, no children allowed, say an age restriction of 40 or so!

 

Yeah, I probably am.  Sue me for being .... over 40 ... and liking this sort of game. 

 

I should say that I recognize a few other people here whose handles I recognize from back then.  Gromniir.  Wanderon.  And some others a bit more vaguely.  There are plenty of people who liked the DnD IE games from back then.  And heck, it wouldn't surprise me if some of those are old enough to have played the even older SSI gold and silver box DnD computer games as well.

 

 

Wow, Wanderon is on these forums? Obi-Wanderon, now that is a name I haven't heard in a very long time...

 

 

Yeah, Mr. "All who wander are not necessarily lost" Wanderon is a member here and shows up occasionally.

[rheingold]

Yup I also recognize a few people from the old forums, though my handle has changed, heck I can't even remember my details....

Def remember Wanderon, he used to have some epic dust ups with a gentleman who went by the name Countless.

Anyways back on topic, sort of, I find the warbow from the dozens quest works really well. Jolting touch is greatly. Pity I never take their side. I reckon it also depends on whether you are talking about a ranger or not. If it's a ranger with swift aim then go arbelest/arquebus. If it's a rogue - warbow to max sneak attacks.

[Crucis]

Yup I also recognize a few people from the old forums, though my handle has changed, heck I can't even remember my details....

Def remember Wanderon, he used to have some epic dust ups with a gentleman who went by the name Countless.

Anyways back on topic, sort of, I find the warbow from the dozens quest works really well. Jolting touch is greatly. Pity I never take their side. I reckon it also depends on whether you are talking about a ranger or not. If it's a ranger with swift aim then go arbelest/arquebus. If it's a rogue - warbow to max sneak attacks.

 

Yeah, it does sort of stink that perhaps the best Warbow, Cloudpiercer, is a quest reward from the Dozens, perhaps the most annoying of the factions.  I accidentally ended up picking them in my last run and got cloudpiercer.

 

I don't remember what the reward for the Knights quest was (I think that it was a Sword), nor do I even know what the Domenals' quest reward item is, since I haven't done them yet.  I'm tempted to try to picking the Domenals the next time, though Cloudpiercer is one darned fine weapon and hard to pass up.  (I have read that you can get it by killing the Dozens' head guy though.  I almost never play evil characters and wouldn't usually consider killing this guy.  Also, I wouldn't want to risk losing access to the Dozens' store.)

 

[rheingold]

Same problem I don't like working with them, and I can't force myself to kill them... Would be nice if you could just buy the darn bow from somewhere. In the only play through when I did get It, I gave it to Sagani, tossed a Superb enchantment on, (if I remember correctly) and didn't need anything else. She was awesome with it.

[Crucis]

Same problem I don't like working with them, and I can't force myself to kill them... Would be nice if you could just buy the darn bow from somewhere. In the only play through when I did get It, I gave it to Sagani, tossed a Superb enchantment on, (if I remember correctly) and didn't need anything else. She was awesome with it.

 

Yeah, if you toss a Superb onto Cloudpiercer, it's probably the best bow in the game, bar none.  I happened to add a Shocking Lash to it in my last party because it felt like a perfect fit.  It already has the spell-striking: Jolting Touch, and a Shocking Lash felt so right for that bow.  I don't remember if I added Superb to any weapon during that run.  I get wary of using the extremely limited ingredients (sky dragon eyes, ardra dragon scales, for example) for making Superb items, and honestly probably end up wasting them by not using them at all by the end of the game.  (Ooops.)

[Larsenex]

Again thanks to all of you for the advice. I am well informed now. I will likely stay with the Arbalest and possibly work with the Dozens for their bow. My main is a Cypher but I enjoy playing the Rogue I created for the party. 

[dudex]

i think crossbows are the best choice for rogues problem is the unique ones are deep in the endless path

 

i also like pistols because of ducanale pistol with the .5 extra crit modifier. You also get one with 1.2 speed modifier (which doesnt work) for free early in act 2.

 

though if speed mod works the choices might be different depending on how its implemented

[Cantousent]

I normally don't post in threads where the problem is resolved, but I would like to thank the cooler heads that prevailed.  Tempers flare and people get invested in the arguments, so we give latitude, but, for the record, I actually *do* give a damn about the community here.  So, I came expecting I might have to close the thread, but it's gotten back on track.  Bravo!

 

As to the weapons, I'm in act 3 and I'm trying not to get spoiled so I only skimmed, but I'm such a noob that I'm still using... Perseverance?  Anyhow, on normal it's pretty hard not to do well, so everything is working just fine regardless of my noobishness.

[the streaker]

Again thanks to all of you for the advice. I am well informed now. I will likely stay with the Arbalest and possibly work with the Dozens for their bow. My main is a Cypher but I enjoy playing the Rogue I created for the party. 

 

According to my calculations, arbalest is just a bit better than crossbow, and warbow is just a little bit better than both, and arquebus is a bit better than all. We're talking within 5% of each other vs. 15DR enemy. Pretty much up to personal choice. Arbalest/arquebus gets a bit better vs. higher DR, but the -0.3 critical hit modifier hurts the rogue particularly vs. things that are easy to hit or crit. Dangerous enemies typically aren't easy to hit. Also, arbalest/arquebus packs that bigger initial punch. I'm kinda leaning towards that one.

Edited May 6, 2015 by the streaker

[rheingold]

Surely it comes down to build and class. Rangers swift aim really helps with arbalest/arquebus, rogues will probably benefit from a good warbow most though - more sneak attacks.

[azmodael]

There are a couple of things many people miss in this debate, notably difficulty, overkill damage and synergy.

 

Difficulty, especially PoTD, raises enemy defenses to very high levels. Its almost impossible to land consistent critical hits and most of the time you rely on debuffs to reliably hit enemies. This even applies to the debuffing spells - a grazing hit on a spell with reduce the duration in half. This means slower weapons require more micro-management, but will perform better when they are micromanaged (landing that one devastating hit in the 4 sec window that the enemy is paralyzed as an example). Faster weapons, on the other hand, are more versatile - they can switch targets more easily.

 

Overkill damage occur when you deal 40 damage to a target with less then 40hp. This is more prominent on slower weapons, who also have slower refire rates. Overkill damage is bad and should be avoid - ideally have at least one character with a fast weapon to switch between targets and finish them off. Personally i use Aloth with Scepter + that 3lvl spell that creates a wand for that.

 

Synergy occurs when your other party members debuff the enemies for you. The -defense reduction spells benefit both slow and fast weapons equally, but -DR spells (incl Combusting Wounds) benefit faster weapons much more then slower weapons. If you intend to use the Warbow consider getting that Chanter Invocation + Expose VUlnerabilities from the Wizard. Together with Penetrating Shot you can stack -10 to -15 DR penetration.

[Mhantra]

In my new run through on PotD detting, my druid uses a war bow, my Cipher uses an Arbelest.  The Cipher is a ridiculous damage dealing machine and DR doesn't scare me at all.  The druid is more steady, less dramatic, but keeps it going.  The above post makes a lot of sense because that is how they are most effectively played, supporting the whole fight strategy. 

 

Cipher obviously aims at the highest armored guy and tries to drop his HP massively right off.  The Druid cleans up near death guys, or focuses on easy-to-hit weaklings (other archers) while my rogue sneaks over to wipe em out.  Obviously, they both have magic as a large part of what they do, but they are built as range and their ranged comabt is extremely important to the party.  In many fights their ranged damage is the highest damage in the party (which is designed this way) in menial fights (I save their spells for the big fights so I can manage my resources).   But I need them both, I htink two of War Bow, or two of Arbalest would be no where near as efficient. 

 

Sure, this isn't taking into account sneak attacks and such, as the topic seems centered on, but it is valid nonetheless.  I love them both.  Also, depending on what melee weapon you want to give them, if you are choosing a weapon focus, it can help you choose.   Estoc or spear?  Makes a difference.

 

Anyway, props to the combat sytem that let me make an arbalest cipher that works

[Crucis]

There are a couple of things many people miss in this debate, notably difficulty, overkill damage and synergy.

 

Difficulty, especially PoTD, raises enemy defenses to very high levels. Its almost impossible to land consistent critical hits and most of the time you rely on debuffs to reliably hit enemies. This even applies to the debuffing spells - a grazing hit on a spell with reduce the duration in half. This means slower weapons require more micro-management, but will perform better when they are micromanaged (landing that one devastating hit in the 4 sec window that the enemy is paralyzed as an example). Faster weapons, on the other hand, are more versatile - they can switch targets more easily.

 

Overkill damage occur when you deal 40 damage to a target with less then 40hp. This is more prominent on slower weapons, who also have slower refire rates. Overkill damage is bad and should be avoid - ideally have at least one character with a fast weapon to switch between targets and finish them off. Personally i use Aloth with Scepter + that 3lvl spell that creates a wand for that.

 

Synergy occurs when your other party members debuff the enemies for you. The -defense reduction spells benefit both slow and fast weapons equally, but -DR spells (incl Combusting Wounds) benefit faster weapons much more then slower weapons. If you intend to use the Warbow consider getting that Chanter Invocation + Expose VUlnerabilities from the Wizard. Together with Penetrating Shot you can stack -10 to -15 DR penetration.

 

It's "less than" not "less then".

 

Regarding overkill, yeah it's an issue.  The problem is that we never know exactly how much END an enemy has left.  You can know that they are at a "Near Death" state, but on many enemies that can still be a lot of END.  It almost reaches the point that you just have to suck it up and blow the Near Death target away, even at the risk of overkill.  It's annoying, but without knowing the exact # of END left, there's not much else you can do.

 

[Razorchain]

I must say that I don't always choose what is best, but all of those weapons are solid choices. In my current potd run I have a warbow rogue and a arquebus priest of maghran. Both work well, in my earlier run I had an arbalest ranger which was also nice