12 level Ranger vs Rogue Range damage- War Bow, Arquebuse.

[Voltron]

I did some testing between Ranger damage per shot and Rogue damage per shot.

 

Test object: Edar, level 12 Fighter. 23 DR Piercing. 73 Deflection (could be even 120 but I wanted constant damage test)

 

TEST1: Wood Elf Ranger, level 12.- Binding Roots, Marked Prey, Stunning Shots, Swift Aim, Vcious Aim, Wounding Shot, Marksman, Gunner, Swift and Steady, Quick Switch, Arms Bearer, Penentrating Shot, Weapon Focus: Soldier, Weapon Focus: Adventurer (IE mod used here for testing)

 

TEST2: Wood Elf Rogue, level 12. - Cripling Strike, Deathblows (x2 damage from Sneak Attack if two conditions on target), Deep Wound, Dirty Fighting, Escape, Fearsome Strike (to apply two conditions on Edar), Sneak Attack, Marskman, Vicious Fighting, Pnetraiting Shot, Gunner, Quick Switch, Arms Bearer, Weapon Focus: Soldier, Weapon Focus: Adventurer (IE mod used here for testing)

 

STATS (BOTH): 18 Might, 3 CON, 18 DEX, 18 PER, 18 INT, 3 RES.

 

WEAPONS USED TO TEST: Exeptional Warbow (+9 Accuracy, 1.3 damage), Exceptional Arquebuse (+ 8 Accuracy, 1.3 damage)

 

Final Accuracy stats for both: TEST1 (Ranger): Arquebuse 72 Accuracy, War Bow 77. TEST2: Arquebuse 72 Accuracy, War Bow 77

 

MODALS ACTIVATED: Ranger- Vicious Aim (+10 Accuracy: 82/87), 1.2 bonus damage, Penetraiting Shot (5 DR pass).

MODALS ACTIVATED: Rogue- Penetraiting Shot (5 DR pass).

 

I was not testing DPS but damage per shot, nor I was testing DOT damage. I also couldn't test Mark of Prey on Edar, but it is only once per fight and for one target. Marked Prey can make Range damage once per fight closer to Rogue Sneak Attack Maybe (its 40% more damage), but not to Deathblow which gives x2 damage!

 

 

 

NO GEAR WAS USED, NO POTIONS, NO FOOD, NO BUFFS, NO SPELLS. NO CONDITION INFLICTED ON EDAR BY ROGUE DECREASED HIS DEFLECTION OR DR (Weakened, Hobbled).

 

 

 

WAR BOW TEST vs Edar- H=HIT, CH=Critic Hit, G=Graze

 

Ranger: H 17, G4, H13, H14, H15, H14, H13, H 14, CH 23, H 10, H 17, H 16, H 10, G 4

Rogue (Sneak Attack, one condition: Hobbled): H 21, G10, CH 23, CH 19, G 7, H 20, H 12, H 11, H18, CH 18

Rogue (Deathblows, two conditions: Weakened, Hobbled ): H 31, G 20, H 32, CH 25, H 26, H 25, CH 35, CH 36, G 27, CH 41

 

 

 

 

Arquebuse TEST vs EDAR- H=HIT, CH=Critic Hit, G=Graze

 

Ranger: CH 55, G 31, H 34, G 24, CH 45, H 47, G 30, H 43, H 35, G 20, G 24, G 24, CH 49

Rogue (Sneak Attack, one condition: Hobbled): H 54, CH 72, G 33, H 66, G 39, G 39, CH 53, H 50, CH 55, H 60, G 30, G 39, G 30, CH 69

Rogue (Deathblows, two conditions: Weakened, Hobbled): H 84, miss, H 98, G 73, G 65, CH 95, G 79, G 60, G 42, G 78, G 62, H 79, H87, CH 94

 

 

 

Both characters had same 0 Recovery speed. I didn't test Blunderbus build, not Wounding Shot DOT. Goal of this testing was to proof how much higher damage can dish out Rogue per shot with Sneak Attack and Deathblows.

Worth to mention is both character had same base accuracy, but Ranger ended up with 10 more thanks to his modal. I didn't use any Rogue 0.25 attack abilities while being in Deathblows or Sneak Attack mode, since damage would be higher with that one particular shot.

 

Critical Hits:

 

Ranger had 10 more accuracy and ended up with total: 1 Critical Hit in War Bow test and 3 Critical Hits in Arquebuse test.

 

Rogue had 10 less accuracy but 20% Hits Conver to Critics thanks to Vicious Fighting and ended up with total: 3 Critical Hits in War Bow test (Sneak Attack), 4 Critical Hits in War Bow test (Deathblows), 4 Critical Hits in Arquebuse test (Sneak Attack), 2 Critical Hits in Arquebuse test (Deathblows).

 

Final Note:

 

All critical hits and damage are being made by rng rolls that I have no influence on. However, one can see that Rogue dish out more Damage per shot with Sneak Attack and Deathblows than Ranger without Marked Prey. Also Rogue had lower accuracy but ended up with more Critical Shots- this however can be due to bad or lucky rolls, so I wouldn't count it as some fact.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Voltron

[Sanctuary]

This is interesting and all, but you aren't at level 12 for very long before the game is over.  All of the damage classes go up and down for overall contribution at various points of the game as well as levels.  I'm not really sure what a level 12 comparison is supposed to prove.

[MoxyWoo]

I think the way to go for rangers is to use Wounding shot.  The DoT effect on it is insane and no other class has it, even the Goldpact paladin faces issues with DR interaction where as ranger just has straight up RAW damage from it.  Rogue sneak attack is powerful and shows chunkier numbers but does it completely bypass DR for the entire weapon damage?  Nope.  Its not 100% dmg increase, its more like 100% + DR*however many hits the rogue does.

 

Ranger is a bit misleading, most of their numbers don't show up on the personal sheet, specifically, animal companion and the DoT effect.  I know a lot of people hate them, but for the first part of the game when DPS is lacking, or offtanking might be needed, it all works.  I actually think for the first part of the game they were meant to tank for their pets because stalker's link is MUCH more manageable if you are meleeing for your companion.

 

Sagani actually makes one of the best off tanks (weird build, I know) because hatchet for deflection... and pet has 2 engagement slots by default.  So.. you can have Sagani + Imutaak "engage" 2 + 1 to 3 = 3 to 5 engaged enemies while still giving off decent dps due to how Wounding shot works out for a tank person.  The pet will die of course, but who cares... tanks weren't about dealing that much damage, and wounding shot is applied by then and ticking away on something.

Edited May 3, 2015 by MoxyWoo

[b0rsuk]

You tested what you wanted to test, and proved what you wanted to prove. You dismiss Marked Prey for being once per fight, but happily use Fearsome Strike, which is 1/rest. Is this because you rest every encounter on PotD ? No +10 accuracy from Stalker's Link, no Wounding Shot, no Stunning Arrows (-20 deflection?). How about a new test where the goal is to use these abilities and not use Deathblows ? The skill makes the biggest difference.

 

Animal Companion deals damage too, it flanks. It makes Ranger effectively get double benefit from most damage buffs.

Edited May 3, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Voltron]

You tested what you wanted to test, and proved what you wanted to prove. You dismiss Marked Prey for being once per fight, but happily use Fearsome Strike, which is 1/rest. Is this because you rest every encounter on PotD ? No +10 accuracy from Stalker's Link, no Wounding Shot, no Stunning Arrows (-20 deflection?). How about a new test where the goal is to use these abilities and not use Deathblows ? The skill makes the biggest difference.

 

Animal Companion deals damage too, it flanks. It makes Ranger effectively get double benefit from most damage buffs.

 

Eh, listen I admited that I missed Marked Prey becasue I couldn't apply that on Edar. I did use Fearsome strike to Apply two conditions on Edar (first hit in every category is not hit from this skill, but hits after it). The difference is when you play in party with Wizard or Cipher YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE FEARSOME STRIKE AT ALL (I only use to speed test up and applie two conditions, this could be made by any caster). Wizard, Cipher (hell, even warriors have Prone per fight for simple Sneak Attack) and other casters that keeping AOE two conditions on enemies or single target is simple. You just need to use Mind Binding and Chill Fog and you have Deathblows on every target. And since there is tons of spells with all required for Sneak Attack and Deathblows conditions- I think that this is very, very easy to meet. I play one and there is no problem keeping them whole fight in party. Range ranger/rogue is not solo build.

 

I didn't count Woundet Shot as well I didn't count Deep Wouds. Stunning Arrow is -20 Deflection yes, but it will make Ranger only crit more often, but as you see those Critcs are nowhere near Rogue Critcs. Even more- Ranger Critcs are often lower then regular Rogue hits or even Grazes with Deathblows. Ranger can meet overall more accuracy- yes. But Rogue have better damage per shot. As I said- I tested damage per shot here.

 

And Accuracy can be reproduce in fight for both calsses- Priest buff, potions, debuffs. But you can't reproduce such more damage. Ranger will crit more oftern of he has all his personal accuracy buffs, but Rogue has passive skill that convert 20% of hits to Critics.

 

Yes, pets deal damage, but how much time in PotD you pet is in front line with tanks or before them dealing damage? And how many time he hit mid/end-game enemies on PotD with his accuracy?

 

Yes, it flanks but so all party members do and Cipher has skill that apply flanked to AOE enemies. And single boss will always be flanked.

 

I even stated that if used Marked Prey- Ranger can match Sneak Attach damage. I just coulnd't test it, if someone can calculate it- that is fine. However it is worth to consider that it is only once per fight for one target and you can't reproduce it with your party member debuffs till next fight. While it is super easy to reproduce for each enemy Deathblows or at least Sneak Attack for entire fight.

 

And- as I stated in my post- I did not test DPS- but DAMAGE PER SHOT. People underestimate Deathblows and how easy is to use them with party members, so I wanted to show difference.

 

 

This is interesting and all, but you aren't at level 12 for very long before the game is over.  All of the damage classes go up and down for overall contribution at various points of the game as well as levels.  I'm not really sure what a level 12 comparison is supposed to prove.

 

Yes, but I wanted Edar to have some sort of end-game deflection, Endurance and DR. And it was suppose to prove nothing as for level alone, I just took level 12 becasue on level 9 you get Deathblows so I though I will test on complete builds. Could be done earlier. Before Deathblows damage per shot could be simillar when used Marked Prey, but still Sneak Attack is easier to reproduce during fights.

 

I just wanted to show that if you use in PotD you typical tactic- keep your sniper behind, let tank hold aggro in bottle/necks and caster throw AOE- Rogue will deal much more damage per shot with War Bow/Arquebus/Arbalest/Pistol. I did not test here quick switch builds- although again- both classes can take Anuma race, arms bearer and Quick Switch. Would pet survive next to Edar there in front on PotD? I doubt, but I would have to babysit him with my priest too much compare to Edar who can be left alone for long time and still don't go down due to superrior tank stats, DR, potions and regeneration.

 

 

This test is nowehere super perfect nor covers everything- it just answer imo basic question. In typical party fights- what will be easier and more effective to meet- Sneak Attack/Deathblows or one Marked Prey and sending pet to front?

Edited May 3, 2015 by Voltron

[Luckmann]

This is interesting and all, but you aren't at level 12 for very long before the game is over.  All of the damage classes go up and down for overall contribution at various points of the game as well as levels.  I'm not really sure what a level 12 comparison is supposed to prove.

 

You spend a long time at level 12, though, far longer than any other single level, and level 12 is used as the "end result"; the differences do not scale linearly, but all the lower levels would do would be to lower the gap on average.

[Sanctuary]

 

This is interesting and all, but you aren't at level 12 for very long before the game is over.  All of the damage classes go up and down for overall contribution at various points of the game as well as levels.  I'm not really sure what a level 12 comparison is supposed to prove.

 

You spend a long time at level 12, though, far longer than any other single level, and level 12 is used as the "end result"; the differences do not scale linearly, but all the lower levels would do would be to lower the gap on average.

 

Guess I'm just used to playing with the 50% mod /shrug.  Didn't hit level 12 until an hour of the game was left.

If you skip bounties and Od Nua until after you're a bit into Act 3, you still aren't going to be at level 12 for very long.  The problem is when you hit level 12 right as soon as Act 3 begins.  They are also toning down the rewards for the bounties in 1.05, but it still probably won't be enough.

[b0rsuk]

Expect to reach level12 later than in 1.04, because bounties got their xp reduced. That was a major reason why people were getting level 12 early.

 

No matter how you slice it, Rogue needs teammates to get his damage boosts. Ranger is not only self-sufficient, he provides extra benefits to his team - flanking from animal and debuffs. Wounding Shot reduces reflex, which makes the target susceptible to Binding Roots. That's -40 Reflex total from a single character. You can also stack Binding Roots with Stunning Arrows, which produces -40 Deflection total.

[the streaker]

Not sure what the point of this comparison is. So it's intended to be a fair comparison, but the the rogue got to use activated abilities and the ranger didn't (marked prey etc)? Or there was a third character applying two debuffs on the target for the rogue, but nothing for the ranger? On top of that, attack and damage rolls are 1-100, so taking ~10 samples is pretty meaningless.

 

Oh and finally, what's the point in comparing highest target single damage? I thought this is the character builds forum. What do I care if a rogue can do ~25% higher damage per shot, if a ranger can pop off twice as many shots in the same timeframe?

[b0rsuk]

Not sure what the point of this comparison is. So it's intended to be a fair comparison, but the the rogue got to use activated abilities and the ranger didn't (marked prey etc)? Or there was a third character applying two debuffs on the target for the rogue, but nothing for the ranger? On top of that, attack and damage rolls are 1-100, so taking ~10 samples is pretty meaningless.

 

Oh and finally, what's the point in comparing highest target single damage? I thought this is the character builds forum. What do I care if a rogue can do ~25% higher damage per shot, if a ranger can pop off twice as many shots in the same timeframe?

 

To be fair it's unlikely Ranger will have twice the arrows in the air with Vicious Aim on. I wonder why he took Swift Aim at all - he didn't use it. Driving Flight would be much better.

[Voltron]

Not sure what the point of this comparison is. So it's intended to be a fair comparison, but the the rogue got to use activated abilities and the ranger didn't (marked prey etc)? Or there was a third character applying two debuffs on the target for the rogue, but nothing for the ranger? On top of that, attack and damage rolls are 1-100, so taking ~10 samples is pretty meaningless.

 

Oh and finally, what's the point in comparing highest target single damage? I thought this is the character builds forum. What do I care if a rogue can do ~25% higher damage per shot, if a ranger can pop off twice as many shots in the same timeframe?

 

Where he can pop up TWICE as many shots? If used Swift Aim he can shot more, but if Vicous Aim plus Penetraiting Shot he actually (as in this test) FIRES SLOWER, becasue you have pentalty from both modals, while Rogue was using only one modal.

 

You can do same test with Marked Prey and I can asure you- Ranger won't get higher damage then Sneak Attack (or not much EVEN IF) and for 100% not higher then Deathblows (40% more damage to target compare to x2 damage).

 

And as I said you have fights against couple of mobs (98% situations in this game)- you use Marked Prey, kill enemy and after that what damage do you have? As a Rogue you can debuff one target and then any other around for Deathblows and if we would count Deathblow/Sneak Attack conditions like Paralyze or Stuck which additionaly lower target defense- damage from Deathblows would skyrocket.

 

There was NO THIRD PARTY applying debuffs. There was two debuffs on Edar- weakened and hobbled, which both DID NOT (I mentioned it) lowered ANY of his defensive stats. So if I'd apply those same two debuffs on Edar while Ranger was shooting- he would do same damage.

 

And ANY other debuff, like Paralyze, Stuck, Stun etc with penalties are common for both classes when you play in party. So both would benefit from them. But when enemy has conditions that do not lower their defenses- Rogue hit better. When enemy have debuffs that lower their defenses- Rogue still hit better.

 

And test was actually about 30-40 damage rolls, however all were plus minus is same "area" of damages so there was imo no point to write them up. You have here highest rolls I got and lowest and other that were in between those numbers.

 

 

 

Not sure what the point of this comparison is. So it's intended to be a fair comparison, but the the rogue got to use activated abilities and the ranger didn't (marked prey etc)? Or there was a third character applying two debuffs on the target for the rogue, but nothing for the ranger? On top of that, attack and damage rolls are 1-100, so taking ~10 samples is pretty meaningless.

 

Oh and finally, what's the point in comparing highest target single damage? I thought this is the character builds forum. What do I care if a rogue can do ~25% higher damage per shot, if a ranger can pop off twice as many shots in the same timeframe?

 

To be fair it's unlikely Ranger will have twice the arrows in the air with Vicious Aim on. I wonder why he took Swift Aim at all - he didn't use it. Driving Flight would be much better.

 

 

Becasue how I already said, I tested Damage per shot, not DPS. But Swift Aim is ONLY talent for ranger that let him shoot faster then Rogue, at price of this 1.2 damage from Vicous Aiming (High DR enemies) and Accuracy bonus (more cirit chance for Ranger), so damage would be even lower then now.

 

Will Ranger shot faster with Swirft Aim on? Yes. But anything like "twice as fast" is nonsense. He has faster reload 1.5- yes and 1.2 faster Attack- yes.

 

However In fights against high DR mobs I prefer to have those Deathblows hitting all targets around with 70+ Grazes and 90+ Critics then a little faster but 2 times weaker shots. And on PotD DR is quite high so I prefer to bypass them easier, not to shot little more lowered DR shots.

Why in PotD Maces, Sabers and Estocs are better than "faster weapons"? Becasue you want to hit harder, not weaker and faster.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Voltron

[peddroelm]

deathblow is not 200% additive .. Its 120% + 50% (sneak) 

marked prey 40% lash is multiplicative ..

 

 You cannot directly compare them ..

[Voltron]

deathblow is not 200% additive .. Its 120% + 50% (sneak) 

marked prey 40% lash is multiplicative ..

 

 You cannot directly compare them ..

 

Either way Deathblow deals more damage and much more often than 1x per fight and for only one enemy. And you can se gap between Sneak Attacks and Deathblow attack, they are quite significant. You can however proof me that Deathblows deal less damage than Marked Prey if that is the case- I am open for results.

 

I would still take Rogue to a party any time as my sniper.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Voltron

[peddroelm]

 

deathblow is not 200% additive .. Its 120% + 50% (sneak) 

marked prey 40% lash is multiplicative ..

 

 You cannot directly compare them ..

 

Either way Deathblow deals more damage and much more often than 1x per fight and for only one enemy. And you can se gap between Sneak Attacks and Deathblow attack, they are quite significant. You can however proof me that Deathblows deal less damage than Marked Prey if that is the case- I am open for results.

 

[WeaponDamageRoll * (1 + 1.2 + 0.5 + Y1 ) - DR ]  AND   [ WeaponDamageRoll * (1 + Y2)  - DR + WeaponDamageRoll * (1 + Y2) * 0.4 - 0.25 * DR ]

 

Which is bigger ? It depends on Y1, Y2 and DR (the other additive damage mods in play. Might, Reckless attack, savage attack , two handed style, beastslayer, .. etc ..)

 

Marked prey is once per fight and one enemy only - but it can last a few attacks (30+ seconds ..) 

[Voltron]

 

 

deathblow is not 200% additive .. Its 120% + 50% (sneak) 

marked prey 40% lash is multiplicative ..

 

 You cannot directly compare them ..

 

Either way Deathblow deals more damage and much more often than 1x per fight and for only one enemy. And you can se gap between Sneak Attacks and Deathblow attack, they are quite significant. You can however proof me that Deathblows deal less damage than Marked Prey if that is the case- I am open for results.

 

[WeaponDamageRoll * (1 + 1.2 + 0.5 + Y1 ) - DR ]  AND   [ WeaponDamageRoll * (1 + Y2)  - DR + WeaponDamageRoll * (1 + Y2) * 0.4 - 0.25 * DR ]

 

Which is bigger ? It depends on Y1, Y2 and DR (the other additive damage mods in play. Might, Reckless attack, savage attack , two handed style, beastslayer, .. etc ..)

 

Marked prey is once per fight and one enemy only - but it can last a few attacks (30+ seconds ..) 

 

 

Yes it can last 30+ seconds, but debuffs needed for Deathblows can be applied by Rogue, Figher, Cipher, Wizard, Druid, Priest and others. Overall you can keep Deathblows longer in big fight then this one Marked Prey.

[Atchod]

First time i see so many calculations that means nothing at all ( LOL DEATHBLOWZ FOR ROGUE A WARBOW + NOTHING FOR RANGER LOOK  GUISE ROGUE WIN )

[Kanasuke]

Do you HAVE to use penetrating shot when wielding an Arquebus? I think it will lower your damage more than it will improve it.

 

Swift Aim's 1.2 attack speed and 1.5 reload speed for only -2 accuracy is still a lot.

For the Arquebus, 194 reload frames reduced to 129.33, that's a 33% improvement. 125 total attack frames reduced to 104, for a 16.8% improvement.

So a total of around 26.5% overall improvement to DPS for those 2 talents. (swift aim and swift & steady). And that's without conditionals. It's just not a fair test to say, I'll drop these 2 core ranger talents and DING. Results.

 

Also that sample size... it's just horrible. Who cares how many critical hits you can get in two dozen volleys. What about hits, grazes, and misses?

 

In PoTD the casters do have problems consistently applying debuffs to enemies because of ultra high saves. Also in the first place, you are building a party around the rogue in order to boost his damage. The ranger doesn't need specific classes in his group to function. They pull their weight regardless of their group composition. 

[Kanasuke]

Also what struck me as odd is, why is there no test data for Rogue hitting without any conditionals? (where no sneak attacks was possible)

 

Even if only 10% to 15% of the rogue's shots were struck without sneak attack in an average playthrough, that still has to be accounted for.

[Tigranes]

Because if your rogue is not hitting a conditional, then something is very wrong.

[the streaker]

Because if your rogue is not hitting a conditional, then something is very wrong.

 

Why? On POTD everything has high deflection, which means the majority of actions will likely be grazes/misses. This halves status effect durations, and the rogue sure as hell can't supply his own for long.

 

We are now considering a bunch of support characters dedicated to status effects just to keep 2 statuses on at all times for the rogue, so you can get sneak attacks and deathblows. These are not free actions, the wizard/cipher could be expending their spells to debuff in other ways or use damaging spells instead. They can do whatever they please in the presence of a ranger.

 

Granted, you'll have one sneak-triggering status effect most of the time, but on higher difficulties not necessarily all of the time, and definitely not two effects all of the time. For example, on high levels once you get gaze of the adragan out, other CC is a waste. Damage spells is what you need immediately after that, not stacking hobbled and stuck on top of petrified.

[MoxyWoo]

Chunky numbers aside, the main thing is a ranger can hit 2 things vs 1 thing a rogue can at lvl 12.

 

50% of your total damage via Driving Flight (don't use this on a blunderbuss because it breaks the pellet system) means they're actually closer to barbarian, or a middle ground between rogues and barbarian. 

 

Warbow:

 

Ranger: H 17, G4, H13, H14, H15, H14, H13, H 14, CH 23, H 10, H 17, H 16, H 10, G 4 *1.5 (due to driving flight), technically 1.75x modifier for CH?  But late.. don't wanna do mathing so everything was just 1.5x. ='s

 

Ranger: H 26, G6, H20, H21, H23, H21, H20, H 21, CH 35, H 15, H 26, H 34, H 15, G 6

vs

Rogue (Sneak Attack, one condition: Hobbled): H 21, G10, CH 23, CH 19, G 7, H 20, H 12, H 11, H18, CH 18

Rogue (Deathblows, two conditions: Weakened, Hobbled ): H 31, G 20, H 32, CH 25, H 26, H 25, CH 35, CH 36, G 27, CH 41

 

Sounds about right, the upper limit of a Ranger CH with driving flight included means they deal as much as a rogue vs 2+ target even if they have "2 conditions", and their hits are roughly the same now by the numbers... Also the ranger is technically attacking 20% faster than the rogue, so they get an additional 2 (4 if you include hitting more) shots added in for every attack routine that was given above.  And guns it'd be about half of the animation is put into reload, which is halved by Swift aim, so.. that's an additional 1/4 or 2.5 shots for the Ranger over 10 strikes?  (bit late and doing math fast).

 

Assuming extreme pet micro, there's probably about 1 hit for every 2.5 attacks from the warbow at about 10 dmg... or for 10 hits its 40 dmg.

 

Maybe over simplifying it, but there it is.  I'd think a crossbow for a rogue/ranger are actually the best middle ground.  Doesn't require quick switching like some builds, had a good crit modiifier, no accuracy loss, and finally the reload animation is half of the guns roughly.  Which is decreased even more by the ranger Swift Aim.

Edited May 4, 2015 by MoxyWoo

[Kilrach]

Activating Swift Aim incur a hefty accuracy penalty though, not sure how it plays out against mobs with higher deflection.

Judging from the description of Driving Flight, it seems like quite a situational passive - most effective when using doorway blocks but not so much when fights occur in open areas. Again, I have no experience with the ability so I could be wrong.

 

I'm still favoring the rogues, then again I might be biased (:

[b0rsuk]

Swift and Steady talent grants +5 Accuracy, so Swift Aim has a total penalty of -2 Accuracy.

[MoxyWoo]

Yeah, I still like rogues since pet micro alone is a bit annoying on a ranger to not lose their damage or get the maximum use out of stalker's link.  

 

Raw DoT + Marking if its working as I think it does would put them at a say 140% weapon damage for their RAW effect basically spread over X seconds, which floors the rogue's damage output for the Y seconds its up for, assuming the shots are roughly the same, which they will be.

 

Basically, the flat damage bonus of the Wounding Shot despite it being over time puts them ahead of a Rogue who still has to worry about DR despite the higher bonuses.

 

Unfortunately, there's no way to see this really happening in the combat log, so, it just seems like things die faster.

 

Edit to add:  Of course, all of this is pretty moot for both classes, because a wizard added in for just its RAW dps via Arcane assault in the early game + spells is worth more to me.  The fact both rangers and rogues suffer through deflection makes most of the practical optimization of these 2 classes really rough, and I have a tough time letting in one of them versus another cipher or wizard.  Though arguably, a tanky ranger has been beneficial on the front line with scrolls due to its higher accuracy, but the fighter fills that niche, same as a monk.

Edited May 4, 2015 by MoxyWoo

[peddroelm]

Raw DoT + Marking if its working as I think it does would put them at a say 140% weapon damage for their RAW effect basically spread over X seconds, which floors the rogue's damage output for the Y seconds its up for, assuming the shots are roughly the same, which they will be.

 

I VERY seriously doubt marking prey has any effect on (any) DOT damage ticks .. Also I'm not 100% convinced wounding shot DOTs ignores target DR - might actually test for this at some point .. Problem is upping target DR lower damage inflicted of which wounding DOT ticks are supposedly calculated of, but I could compensate by upping ranger's additive damage mods (might) to compensate ..