[Class Build] The Dynamite Melee Wizard or TnT (1.05)

[Atchod]

Where did you pull this fast weapons > slow weapon for cipher , just another speculation ? Esp now after 1.05 that is not the case and before it was only if you took the talent that adds+2focus per hit and that talent was only good to use with blunderbuss where blunderbuss is used as a mean to recharge focus not to do any noticable damage .

Proclamations and Speculations all over this forum even in Build discussion section where it should be mostly facts and calculations .

Edited May 2, 2015 by Atchod

[MoxyWoo]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vDm5MOrCK6S95h5u0EzZbGTv_u_rYqjuO0-zupqk0_A/edit?pli=1#gid=1264774515

 

^used this to crank it out.

 

Specifically though, Ciphers get more +dmg modifiers so they can hit the magical ~90% mark easier like rogues can to make faster weapons viable from a dps standpoint.

Edited May 2, 2015 by MoxyWoo

[Atchod]

After patch Draining Whip will be 33% of damage done , how Dagger is better here than a Sabre ? Dont forget that you never gona hit more than 2 times before you stop to cast spells ( well unless ofc with a ****ty dagger with negative damage might need to hit more than twice , but 2 sabre swings should always give you enough focus to cast a spell ) 

 

I just really dont see in this ocean of "balance" any point to use fast 1 handers over Sabre unless those 1handers got some essential enchantments ofcourse . Sabre does damage close to 2hander , any ability that does 1.X damage is better with Sabre , any % of damage gained as something is better with sabre . Should added that Ruffian class instead of Cipher imo , Sabre's and Blunderbuss'es all the way yaar

Edited May 2, 2015 by Atchod

[MoxyWoo]

Sabres are great, good alpha with them for sure.

 

They even get comparable good numbers when I cranked them vs higher DR 20 than stilettos, but not Estocs (assuming all talents are equal) when I did my wizard testing.  So I figure Cipher will beat them out with the 40% dmg modifier wizards can't get.

 

Anyway, won't bother cranking the numbers, my cipher play was just comparing my wizard play, hence why I stopped it.  Plus, its actually quite difficult to get "good" sabres at the beginning unlike stiletto like Azureith or Osteriech (sp?), so would be a transition of gear just like this build transitions from Arcane Assault + Arbalest/Arquebus > Tidefall and Tall Grass.

[VahnXIII]

 

Nice build ,but i would prefer to go Battlemagish melee wizard , With 1h+shield , as offtank and control/debuff character , wonder if aloth can pull that off 0_o 

 

Aloth can definitely pull it off.  He has better stats geared to tanking oddly with his weird stat spread and lower might and higher con.  Still, like all melee wizards, he needs time to get good, and most of the time its just a nice option to have Arcane Veil + Infuse health as the bare minimums to try and save himself.

 

I'd love to be a dual wielding, spell slinging swashbuckler. But I don't think these changes will allow for that still. Might have to stay with my dual stilletos Cipher (with blunderbuss as ranged backup).

 

Yeah, I tried the dual stiletto/blunderbuss Cipher for about halfway through act 2, and debatable with the focus gains and start (1/4 focus) being a bit different.  They don't have no recovery like wizards for their "buff" spells, though usually all of their spells (powers) provide double duty as a debuff.

 

OTOH a wizard has no +dmg modifiers which is why fast weapons > slow weapons work for Cipher.  Ran the numbers on the spreadsheet and basically, even with all the enchants and 28+ might, you barely out dps to what you get from an Estoc wielding wizard with no talents invested (this is just with Alacrity up).  Basically since wizards rule supreme with attack speed modifier, they want to have slow chunky weapons vs the fast ones like rogue or cipher enjoy (sans the opener of blunderbuss).

 

Now with the Lance swinging even faster, that means you get double duty out of attack speed which is hard to get out of other weapons.

 

Think the break point was 90% weapon damage at 12 DR beat out Estoc by 2 dps or so.  This was with vulnerable attack > two weapon fighting > alacrity > expose vulnerabilities all up.  And also assumed 2 superb stilettos which is quite costly too.  The main advantage in this build's case is Tidefall is already superb, letting you equip others with good weapons too and/or earlier getting if need be.

 

I understand what you're saying. To be honest, I'll probably use a similar build to the one posted in this thread. With a Wizard's faster attack speed, it would be beneficial for them to equip a slower weapon that can pack a punch. The polearms mentioned would be a good fit but I understand you don't receive them until later in the game. Also, the energy lance (forget the name of the spell) is something you cannot get until level 9 correct? 

 

This seems like a good build but potentially a late bloomer.

 

Also, how would you allocate your attribute points? It seems like many of the attributes are valuable but you're limited to the number of points you can put towards each one (Might, Dex, Con, etc.)

 

What do you use for weapons until you can get Tidefall or the energy lance?

 

What type of armor, if any, would you recommend?

 

When I mentioned the dual wielding, I was simply stating that I miss the days of playing as my fighter/mage in BG that allowed me to dual wield blades. Not only was that build extremely effective, it looked amazing too. I guess I"m a sucker for aesthetics when it comes to my main character. If you're going to be awesome, may as well look good while doing it!

[Tigranes]

I've been TCS Wizard'ing with a sword and shield for the deflection. Gaun's Flail was the pick early on, but after a while due to DR you're hitting them for 7 damage and healing 2, making life leech not so significant. I switched to Aattuk for the accuracy, but I suspect there's a better option here, possibly a reach weapon or at any rate an Average speed weapon.

 

Ultimately the weapons themselves don't seem to be the main damage dealers, though.

[MoxyWoo]

I understand what you're saying. To be honest, I'll probably use a similar build to the one posted in this thread. With a Wizard's faster attack speed, it would be beneficial for them to equip a slower weapon that can pack a punch. The polearms mentioned would be a good fit but I understand you don't receive them until later in the game. Also, the energy lance (forget the name of the spell) is something you cannot get until level 9 correct? 

 

 

 

This seems like a good build but potentially a late bloomer.

 

Also, how would you allocate your attribute points? It seems like many of the attributes are valuable but you're limited to the number of points you can put towards each one (Might, Dex, Con, etc.)

 

What do you use for weapons until you can get Tidefall or the energy lance?

 

What type of armor, if any, would you recommend?

 

When I mentioned the dual wielding, I was simply stating that I miss the days of playing as my fighter/mage in BG that allowed me to dual wield blades. Not only was that build extremely effective, it looked amazing too. I guess I"m a sucker for aesthetics when it comes to my main character. If you're going to be awesome, may as well look good while doing it!

 

 

Correct, you wouldn't use the  Citzal's "pike" until level 9, but as needed you'd cast it for the AoE damage it provides.

 

Progression by game is:  (Hard difficulty here)

 

Arquebus (Durance's) > Arbalest > Fine Pike > (Justice) > Lost Thayn's Reach (Copperlane - Defiance Bay) > Tall Grass > Tidefall

 

Justice is a good greatsword at the time you get it and most of the other classes don't care for it... Only problem is, it has a weird spot as you're too squishy to actually melee, and if you hold off getting it, you probably have better options from Defiance or Dyrford by then.

 

 

Might 18

Con 3

Dex 20

Per 3

Int 16

Res 18

 

Armor I used Eder's Saint armor once I went pike, before then it was just naked with the ranged.  Might be because I'm old, but it forgives a lot of mistakes when playing due to second chance, and has a little more cold DR if you ever feel like stepping into your own chill fog for example (or by accident) which is handy.  Later on Pallegina's armor with Hardened and the wondrous ring that has second chance will do the same.  But Sanguine plate is the main thing, so its easy enough to jump from Saint to Sanguine.  Consequently, around those levels you'll be using Tall Grass, so more of a second row dps who doesn't need as thick DR.

 

The main synergy I liked was for trash encounters, you were up close with the pike so fan of flames was a good opener at the early levels.  I might plug in Fleet Foot now that I think of it, because its just a nice quality of life talent for wizards when they need to position.

 

Yeah, for dual wield, I think monk is probably the coolest looking with 2 sabres using Torment's Reach spam (very Wuxian style like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon to me), wizard just gets to walk (well run really fast) in plate and then just beat down with a giant energy weapon.

[taek]

 

This seems like a good build but potentially a late bloomer.

 

The Parasitic Staff buff helped majorly with this issue of melee wizards, that they are late developing build.

 

I restarted a 1.05 game w/  a melee wizard and he is happily blowing things up in the very early game with a 38-58 damage staff on most encounters, since it's  L1 spell.

[VahnXIII]

 

 

This seems like a good build but potentially a late bloomer.

 

The Parasitic Staff buff helped majorly with this issue of melee wizards, that they are late developing build.

 

I restarted a 1.05 game w/  a melee wizard and he is happily blowing things up in the very early game with a 38-58 damage staff on most encounters, since it's  L1 spell.

 

Thanks for the tip on that. I'm rolling a wizard tonight and I"ll probably pick up Parasitic staff early on. Also, how did you distribute your attribute points?

Edited May 4, 2015 by VahnXIII

[VahnXIII]

 

I understand what you're saying. To be honest, I'll probably use a similar build to the one posted in this thread. With a Wizard's faster attack speed, it would be beneficial for them to equip a slower weapon that can pack a punch. The polearms mentioned would be a good fit but I understand you don't receive them until later in the game. Also, the energy lance (forget the name of the spell) is something you cannot get until level 9 correct? 

 

 

 

This seems like a good build but potentially a late bloomer.

 

Also, how would you allocate your attribute points? It seems like many of the attributes are valuable but you're limited to the number of points you can put towards each one (Might, Dex, Con, etc.)

 

What do you use for weapons until you can get Tidefall or the energy lance?

 

What type of armor, if any, would you recommend?

 

When I mentioned the dual wielding, I was simply stating that I miss the days of playing as my fighter/mage in BG that allowed me to dual wield blades. Not only was that build extremely effective, it looked amazing too. I guess I"m a sucker for aesthetics when it comes to my main character. If you're going to be awesome, may as well look good while doing it!

 

 

Correct, you wouldn't use the  Citzal's "pike" until level 9, but as needed you'd cast it for the AoE damage it provides.

 

Progression by game is:  (Hard difficulty here)

 

Arquebus (Durance's) > Arbalest > Fine Pike > (Justice) > Lost Thayn's Reach (Copperlane - Defiance Bay) > Tall Grass > Tidefall

 

Justice is a good greatsword at the time you get it and most of the other classes don't care for it... Only problem is, it has a weird spot as you're too squishy to actually melee, and if you hold off getting it, you probably have better options from Defiance or Dyrford by then.

 

 

Might 18

Con 3

Dex 20

Per 3

Int 16

Res 18

 

Armor I used Eder's Saint armor once I went pike, before then it was just naked with the ranged.  Might be because I'm old, but it forgives a lot of mistakes when playing due to second chance, and has a little more cold DR if you ever feel like stepping into your own chill fog for example (or by accident) which is handy.  Later on Pallegina's armor with Hardened and the wondrous ring that has second chance will do the same.  But Sanguine plate is the main thing, so its easy enough to jump from Saint to Sanguine.  Consequently, around those levels you'll be using Tall Grass, so more of a second row dps who doesn't need as thick DR.

 

The main synergy I liked was for trash encounters, you were up close with the pike so fan of flames was a good opener at the early levels.  I might plug in Fleet Foot now that I think of it, because its just a nice quality of life talent for wizards when they need to position.

 

Yeah, for dual wield, I think monk is probably the coolest looking with 2 sabres using Torment's Reach spam (very Wuxian style like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon to me), wizard just gets to walk (well run really fast) in plate and then just beat down with a giant energy weapon.

 

Thank you for posting this. I usually don't min/max and I always cringe when I need to dip attributes so low but it seems like it is necessary for this build. Also, with the buff to the wizard's health, does it make sense to set CON to 3? Or should we be scoring it higher to take advantage of the update?

[MoxyWoo]

The update gave them.. 28? endurance total.. so -20% of that is only 6 endurance roughly at lvl 12 no con modifiers.  Not much difference.

 

The main end is +50 from Infuse health spell as needed.  

[johnnygunz]

Great looking build, might try this. OP you say you get '+8 might from Transformation spell'. What spell is that, a wizard spell? Never heard of it?

[Kaigen42]

This has already been discussed a bit, but I think it's worth highlighting: Concelhaut's Staff is really good; it does way more damage than the wizard could hope to do with any non-summoned weapon. Given that, the fact that using it is an efficient way to parcel out your 1st level spell uses until you hit level 9, and the likelihood that you will not be using Citzal's Spirit Lance in every single encounter after level 9, I think that there's a solid argument to be made for taking Weapon Focus: Peasant at first and putting off Weapon Focus: Soldier until later on. The downside is that your weapon options when not using Concelhaut's Staff are a bit worse, meaning you'll probably be stuck poking at enemies with a quarterstaff from behind another melee character in that event, but I think it's a viable alternate build.

[VahnXIII]

Bump. Any updates on this build since 2.0?

[Ymarsakar]

Level 11 wizard with citzal's spirit lance is pretty good outside Durgan's Battery. Generally the crunch is how to decide what spells to load into the grimoire and when to cast debuffs vs when to cast self buffs/melee spells. Lower level wizard might even be better since they can just cast a ranged wand spell and do damage that way, they don't have to get close, so a lot of options since you can technically have 2+2 weapon slots with the spells. Wizard is probably one of the only classes where it doesn't matter as much what your talents are. A lot of your self buff power comes in the form of spells.

 

weapon/shield, ranged weapon, +elemental wand spell weapon, +lance spell weapons.

 

The wizard's base accuracy and deflection is the lowest of them all I think, so you have to becareful how to rotate the buffs when the duration runs out. Playing on March PotD high level content level 11 party, the fights are pretty long due to the enemy paladins, melee dps tanks, and ranged dps they have in one group.

 

I never played a wizard after 1.04, since the game I had before 1.04 aloth could crossbow fire at 10m but needed to get to 5m-8m to cast most useful spells, so I dropped him for the much more useful paladin (before it became op), while using a cipher (the op cipher) as my main dps.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Ymarsakar