Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

Well this is pretty much the result you can expect when you define your movement by its opposition towards those horrible not-ingroup people.

 

 

That sounds like the 'other side's' projection.

 

 

Right. Because that's not the exact thing going on right before our eyes.

[Meshugger]

 

 

Well the problem with hate groups is that sooner or later everybody becomes a target : ]

 

Cute.

 

 

Well this is pretty much the result you can expect when you define your movement by its opposition towards those horrible not-ingroup people.

 

 

True, SJWs should stop calling everyone misogynists, racists, terrorists or whatnot when they do not agree with them. 

[Blarghagh]

I think I dumped #GamerGate at a good time. Afterwards, they really turned to hell. Alum is fairly correct in that everyone becomes a target. Hell, I was briefly a target HERE. Zero post accounts made entirely to send me some really, really, nasty messages. I was also accused of paying people to post pro-Obsidian messages on GamerGate related boards, which is amusing since I don't even get paid.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

Well the problem with hate groups is that sooner or later everybody becomes a target : ]

 

Cute.

 

 

Well this is pretty much the result you can expect when you define your movement by its opposition towards those horrible not-ingroup people.

 

 

True, SJWs should stop calling everyone misogynists, racists, terrorists or whatnot when they do not agree with them. 

 

 

Of course, because that's totally the same thing than gamergate turning on its own, which has happened during the production of that ridiculous anti-Sarkeesian "documentary", and now it's happening again.

Edited April 26, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Fighter]

Right. Because that's not the exact thing going on right before our eyes.

 

When it happens in the other camp before our eyes (BW getting crap for talking to Wardell, feminists calling women "gender traitors", etc) you would not use the words hate group. Hence. Projection.

[Blarghagh]

At this point I think that everyone still willingly involved does so out of hate rather than any real goals.

[Meshugger]

I think I dumped #GamerGate at a good time. Afterwards, they really turned to hell. Alum is fairly correct in that everyone becomes a target. Hell, I was briefly a target HERE. Zero post accounts made entirely to send me some really, really, nasty messages. I was also accused of paying people to post pro-Obsidian messages on GamerGate related boards, which is amusing since I don't even get paid.

 

****, that was bad and not acceptable in any way  

 

Best wishes though.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

At this point I think that everyone still willingly involved does so out of hate rather than any real goals.

 

I think it was pretty much true for the start of the thing as well. Or, at the very least, that the ridiculously reactionary "oh god take that SJW crap out of my entertainment" sentiment very strongly outweighed the valid concerns.

[Longknife]

 

Instead there's this attitude of "oh man there's some conspiracy going on here!!!" Not a conspiracy like aliens and tinfoil hats, but like Pakman was purposefully trying to mislead the audience. That's insane. It was clearly an honest mistake and they could've calmly asked for the disclaimer. INSTEAD we see that kind of tone, we see a lot on the gamergate side (Milo, Sargon etc) jumping on board and trashing Pakman, and you know what? GamerGate does look stupid as hell now. Good job guys. Good ****ing job. (...)

 

GamerGate is becoming too high strung and handling everybody as if they were some hugbox SJW with an agenda and a refusal to hear the other side. Pro-tip: that's not how everyone acts and treated everyone that way makes you come off as looney tunes as the people you're opposing.

 

Well the problem with hate groups is that sooner or later everybody becomes a target : ]

 

 

The bitter irony being that in making this statement, you are guilty of the exact thing I'm criticizing.

 

I do not make those posts as a way to say "all GamerGate supporters are like this," but rather to highlight a growing number of supporters that are that way and how I think it could "poison the well." Those people? I'm criticizing them because they blindly view anyone who's not in-group as being bad or wrong or someone to be opposed, making no attempt to understand or speak with them.

 

And in your statement, you're implying anyone who's a part of GG is a member of a hate group, viewing them as being bad or wrong or people to be opposed, making no attempt to understand or speak with them.

 

 

And mind you, of course you've spoken with us before, I'm not trying to say you haven't. But why label it as such? Do you consider me or anyone in this thread a hateful person...? If not, then why make that statement?

 

  The fact of the matter is that those who've stood against GG would hold some manner of responsibility in this. Not directly as in it's their fault GGers are getting aggressive, but rather there's a "war" going on and both sides are perfectly capable of abolishing certain tactics. Any characteristic you can find within one side? You'll find on the opposing side aswell. That this kind of blind hatred for the other side is something that's growing rather than shrinking? I think that speaks volumes about the quarrel in general. It's been going on too long now, this is the result. People act exactly as they're treated.

 

So spare me those comments please, because for as hard as I facepalm when I read KiA threads saying Pakman is "dead to us now," I facepalmed equally as hard reading your post.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

Well the problem with hate groups is that sooner or later everybody becomes a target : ]

 

Cute.

 

 

Well this is pretty much the result you can expect when you define your movement by its opposition towards those horrible not-ingroup people.

 

 

True, SJWs should stop calling everyone misogynists, racists, terrorists or whatnot when they do not agree with them. 

 

 

Of course, because that's totally the same thing than gamergate turning on its own, which has happened during the production of that ridiculous anti-Sarkeesian "documentary", and now it's happening again.

 

 

There always infighting when anons get into a heated debate in GG. No doubt about that, it's been that way since the beginning. But as always, the most rational and logical arguments weed out the stupid elements. See any talk about company boycots. 

Edited April 26, 2015 by Meshugger

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

And mind you, of course you've spoken with us before, I'm not trying to say you haven't. But why label it as such? Do you consider me or anyone in this thread a hateful person...? If not, then why make that statement?

 

 

 

I don't think groups of people are homogenous masses. Hence, I'm fully capable of both considering gamergate to have many similarities in how it operates to hate groups, and acknowledging that individuals within the group are not necessarily in it out of hate. Frankly, I find the idea that anybody could see the world in any other way quite baffling. (The phrase "white fragility" jumps to mind.)

 

 

 

So spare me those comments please, because for as hard as I facepalm when I read KiA threads saying Pakman is "dead to us now," I facepalmed equally as hard reading your post.

 

 

 

...Which is a thing I should care about because...?

 

 

But as always, the most rational and logical arguments weed out the stupid elements. 

 

 

Oooh boy, talk about naive idealism 

Edited April 26, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Longknife]

I think I dumped #GamerGate at a good time. Afterwards, they really turned to hell. Alum is fairly correct in that everyone becomes a target. Hell, I was briefly a target HERE. Zero post accounts made entirely to send me some really, really, nasty messages. I was also accused of paying people to post pro-Obsidian messages on GamerGate related boards, which is amusing since I don't even get paid.

 

You should've spoken up sooner about that stuff dude. Everything is relevant.

 

I wonder if the Obsidian limerick fiasco could be called the turning point or if it's just something we notice more cause we visit these boards. Cause yeah, I've been jaded since then too. I was the one who took Firedorn's post and ran it down to KiA to get people to chill out. Moment it was added to the sticky, it wasn't met with people calming down and considering options, but rather just thinking up new ways to be mad at Obsidian as my stuff got spammed with downvotes. Even had one guy going through downvoting every one of my reddit posts (admitted to it openly).  It's hardly the majority of course, but it doesn't really matter cause it's still ENOUGH people to do damage.

 

  I feel like that was a turning point of sorts simply because before, there'd been discussion about how to approach developers. The only developers who'd gotten calls of boycotting were those who blatantly talked trash and showed disrespect towards GG and/or gamers. It was always talks of how GG can't just boycott those who disagree because then it's no better than what the SJWs do, and then here the plan was to do that with Obsidian, but with no discussion as to why or if there were better alternatives. Felt like people were just getting restless and acting before thinking.

[Meshugger]

 

But as always, the most rational and logical arguments weed out the stupid elements. 

 

 

Oooh boy, talk about naive idealism 

 

 

Stalin feared that the most

[Blarghagh]

It wasn't the limerick debacle that caused it. I have no idea who received the lashings for that one, but I don't think it was the moderators (I think Tigranes caught a handful of flak for that, but nothing substantial). I'm assuming Sawyer took the brunt of that, but that is entirely an assumption since we very rarely interact with actual devs. I got it for when we timed out this thread (along with Fionavar whom was consistently assumed to be a woman for some reason), which I would say was a much less controversial decision.

 

 

I think I dumped #GamerGate at a good time. Afterwards, they really turned to hell. Alum is fairly correct in that everyone becomes a target. Hell, I was briefly a target HERE. Zero post accounts made entirely to send me some really, really, nasty messages. I was also accused of paying people to post pro-Obsidian messages on GamerGate related boards, which is amusing since I don't even get paid.

 

****, that was bad and not acceptable in any way

 

Best wishes though.

 

 

Don't worry about it. It's not my first rodeo. They were pretty nasty but they weren't actually as nasty as when I made a case for Jar Jar Binks being a good character mishandled by George Lucas' bad writing and direction on a Star Wars board. Now those people, they scare me.

 

History vindicated me, since Jar Jar's handling in Clone Wars seems to have been well received.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

Oooh boy, talk about naive idealism 

 

 

Stalin feared that the most

 

 

Which is, of course, entirely relevant and applicable to the discussion.

[Longknife]

 

 

So spare me those comments please, because for as hard as I facepalm when I read KiA threads saying Pakman is "dead to us now," I facepalmed equally as hard reading your post.

 

 

...Which is a thing I should care about because...?

 

This makes it pretty clear you've got no interest in what I'm trying to say, so nevermind, I won't even bother trying to explain it.

[Fighter]

GG is a hashtag. The only common association are the dislike of media behavior and disagreement with many elements of the... I don't even know what to call it because people hate SJW... "progressive agenda"? And it's tactics and behaviors.

 

If you ever used the hashtag to say something about those things and you're now "out". This means what exactly, that you've changed your mind on your original thoughts? It's just so meanigless. Because if you did not change your opinion then you're still part of GG to them.

 

That's why even though I used the hashtag barely a handful of times in the beginning and I don't think even ever said the words, "I'm in Gamergate," I won't be fighting someone who associates me with GG. Because of the common elements I mentioned.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

So spare me those comments please, because for as hard as I facepalm when I read KiA threads saying Pakman is "dead to us now," I facepalmed equally as hard reading your post.

 

 

...Which is a thing I should care about because...?

 

This makes it pretty clear you've got no interest in what I'm trying to say, so nevermind, I won't even bother trying to explain it.

 

 

The only thing that comment makes clear is that I don't take it kindly when people put me in the same camp as some dim-witted gamergater. My annoyance is compounded by the fact that I specifically explained my stance on the matter in the very same post you're responding to, but instead of reacting to that, you just flat-out refuse to engage at all.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Oooh boy, talk about naive idealism 

 

 

Stalin feared that the most

 

 

Which is, of course, entirely relevant and applicable to the discussion.

 

 

Of course. Authoritarians like anti-GG or Stalin hate idealists that go outside their narrative.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

 

Oooh boy, talk about naive idealism 

 

 

Stalin feared that the most

 

 

Which is, of course, entirely relevant and applicable to the discussion.

 

 

Of course. Authoritarians like anti-GG or Stalin hate idealists that go outside their narrative.

 

 

Can't help but note the hypocrisy of asking "how dare you say GG shares some similarities with hate groups?" while literally comparing the opposition to one of the worst mass murderers in the entire history of mankind.

[PrimeJunta]

 

 

 

Oooh boy, talk about naive idealism 

 

Stalin feared that the most

 

 

Which is, of course, entirely relevant and applicable to the discussion.

 

 

Of course. Authoritarians like anti-GG or Stalin hate idealists that go outside their narrative.

 

Yes.

 

It's much cleverer to craft a phony counter-narrative which is superficially radical but in reality completely non-threatening to the ruling class, and get the naive idealists to adopt that. Libertarianism, for example.

Edited April 26, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

Oooh boy, talk about naive idealism 

 

Stalin feared that the most

 

 

Which is, of course, entirely relevant and applicable to the discussion.

 

 

Of course. Authoritarians like anti-GG or Stalin hate idealists that go outside their narrative.

 

Yes.

 

It's much cleverer to craft a phony counter-narrative which is superficially radical but in reality completely non-threatening to the ruling class, and get the naive idealists to adopt that. Libertarianism, for example.

 

 

Other thread please.

[PrimeJunta]

 

 

 

 

 

Oooh boy, talk about naive idealism 

 

Stalin feared that the most

 

 

Which is, of course, entirely relevant and applicable to the discussion.

 

 

Of course. Authoritarians like anti-GG or Stalin hate idealists that go outside their narrative.

 

Yes.

 

It's much cleverer to craft a phony counter-narrative which is superficially radical but in reality completely non-threatening to the ruling class, and get the naive idealists to adopt that. Libertarianism, for example.

 

 

Other thread please.

 

But this one was so asking for it. 

[Blarghagh]

That's why even though I used the hashtag barely a handful of times in the beginning and I don't think even ever said the words, "I'm in Gamergate," I won't be fighting someone who associates me with GG. Because of the common elements I mentioned.

 

I believe the only time I used my twitter account to literally post something to that effect is the "I support inclusivity and artisitc freedom, but I'm against biased media reporting" picture. Yet whenever I engaged people who attacked me without provocation in a respectful and reasonable manner I was still the bad guy. They attacked me, but I was sea-lioning. I wanted specific terminology to seperate consumer advocacy from editorial, and because of that I was being oppressive by putting people into simple boxes not befitting the real world, so they called me a conservative, an MRA and an American. The irony of some of "the narrative" is not lost on me because Leigh Alexander using her fanbase to dogpile you is exactly the same as Thunderf00t using his fanbase to dogpile you.

[PrimeJunta]

Yeah. Yay for the Internet. 

 

http://www.clickhole.com/article/justice-last-when-girl-was-cyberbullied-classmate--2219

 

 

In case you didn't notice, that was The Onion.