The Lightsaber

[Shdy314]

It may be a D20 game but since it is not SW D20 they can do anything with it they want. If you don't like what they do that's fine but it's silly for people to whine that it is all wrong because it isn't SW D20.

[Drakron]

No but its a broken system already, The Munchkin Lords is simply making the same errors that were done.

 

Remenber that skills were nearly useless in SW:KotOr?

 

Well "more screen time" is not fixing the issue and allowing demolitions to act as security is also not fixing the issue ... blowing up a door is completly diferent that break the lock (for start it would sound a alarm).

 

Moving to "it have no impact" to "it have 100 uses" its not fixing ... its munchkin since its downgrading skills to a unexpecialized role, as they are at it they could just remove skills and handled by atributes acores alone.

[Shdy314]

No but its a broken system already, The Munchkin Lords is simply making the same errors that were done.

 

Remenber that skills were nearly useless in SW:KotOr?

 

Well "more screen time" is not fixing the issue and allowing demolitions to act as security is also not fixing the issue ... blowing up a door is completly diferent that break the lock (for start it would sound a alarm).

 

Moving to "it have no impact" to "it have 100 uses" its not fixing ... its munchkin since its downgrading skills to a unexpecialized role, as they are at it they could just remove skills and handled by atributes acores alone.

Oh don't get me wrong. I agree with everything you say here. It is definitely broken. My complaint is when people that say it is broken because it isn't SW D20. It is broken because it is poorly balanced. Not because it is different from SW D20.

[Drakron]

That is true, its poorly balanced and it appears to not change for The Munchkin Lords.

 

The moment they said "epic" was the moment I knew every error that BioWare made in SW:KotOR was instead of being corrected made bigger.

 

I hold no faith on this game ...

[ichpokhudezh]

d20 adds the damage by class. Basically depending what Jedi call you have at say level 5 you would get to add 1d8 do the light sabers damage. The best combo of classes with add +4d8 so max damage would be 6d8 (2d8 from lightsaber, +1d8 from Jedi Guardian, and +3d8 from the Prestige Class Jedi Weapons Master.) Average good blaster does 3d6(Heavy Blaster or Carbine). You get feats like rapid fire that lets you shoot twice for a -2 to hit on both and you can do 12d6 in a round. There is also Multifire and Autofire on some weapons. Then there is the standard multiple attacks at each 6+ level.

Well, to everybody looking for weapon balance and/or challenging battles, check the post above again. And, I believe, Force Powers don't work off some 'mana' pool in SW d20.

If somebody knows how did it work exactly/has a book handy, can you post the description of FP usage in SW d20?

[Drakron]

It costs vitality points so most jedi are not keen in using then often in battle.

[jaguars4ever]

I see that you had no logical arguments to a single point I brought up. Just repeated yourself saying how great it would be but offering no explanation and answering not a single point I mentioned.

Don't be so impudent to assume that one as insolent as yourself is the singular fulcrum for all discussion. In case you're having difficulty recollecting, it was

after I had acknowledged Ichpokhudezh's initial comment that you chose to resort to inherently disrespectful & inflammatory remarks.

 

Now one can only hazard a guess as to why someone would actually want to converse with another who exhibits an overwhelming fetish to berate and caricature fellow forum members, as opposed to employing your vaunted "logical arguments".

 

However I'm not one to hold grudges. So if you are willing to demonstrate a moderate level of courtesy, then I as well shall make earnest efforts to ensure that my speculatation conforms to your standards.

 

Jag.

[Sorwen]

It costs vitality points so most jedi are not keen in using then often in battle.

That's the one change that I really liked about KoToR vs. d20. I think the should have been separate pools and force a lot smaller than Vit.

[Shdy314]

I see that you had no logical arguments to a single point I brought up. Just repeated yourself saying how great it would be but offering no explanation and answering not a single point I mentioned.

Don't be so impudent to assume that one as insolent as yourself is the singular fulcrum for all discussion. In case you're having difficulty recollecting, it was

after I had acknowledged Ichpokhudezh's initial comment that you chose to resort to inherently disrespectful & inflammatory remarks.

 

Now one can only hazard a guess as to why someone would actually want to converse with another who exhibits an overwhelming fetish to berate and caricature fellow forum members, as opposed to employing your vaunted "logical arguments".

 

However I'm not one to hold grudges. So if you are willing to demonstrate a moderate level of courtesy, then I as well shall make earnest efforts to ensure that my speculatation conforms to your standards.

 

Jag.

All I asked was you address my concerns I brought up in my original post. Don't go calling me names just because you can't. And name calling is a lot more inflammatory than me disagreeing with you and laying out all the reasons why. Get your act together. this is a message board. No need to get worked up. Don't post anything if you can't take criticism.

[ichpokhudezh]

Maybe if you're the ultimate munchkin they were underpowered.

 

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

A lot of ppl doesn't.

A picture is worth a 100 words, so here it is...

[Shdy314]

Munchkin

 

From Wizard of Oz a whiny little power-gamer type noted for milking rules till they scream.

 

So someone saying lightsabers are underpowered because SW D20 makes them more powerful and KOTOR is based on D20 so the rules say they should be more powerful. Whining that lightsabers don't do enough damage because some weapons do more and this goes against the rules of SW is a munchkin. Also they are only noted for milking rules. Just flat out whining incessantly for more and more power (especially in a game where combat is already a joke) still makes someone a munchkin. I don't have any problem with how you play your game. Powergame your heart out but games can't be designed around power gamer's wishes unless you want Diablo or something.

[AlanC9]

Agreed. The specific numbers are irrelevant. What counts is the relative damage between weapon types. Of course, more damage can mean faster combat, and possibly more difficult combat depending on healing rules.

 

I've seen people arguing both for blasters doing more damage and for lightsabers doing more damage. Except for hurting blade wielders (a good thing IMO), how would doing both really change the game? Wouldn't we be in the same place we are now?

[ichpokhudezh]

Munchkin

 

From Wizard of Oz a whiny little power-gamer type noted for milking rules till they scream.

 

So someone saying lightsabers are underpowered because SW D20 makes them more powerful and KOTOR is based on D20 so the rules say they should be more powerful. Whining that lightsabers don't do enough damage because some weapons do more and this goes against the rules of SW is a munchkin. Also they are only noted for milking rules. Just flat out whining incessantly for more and more power (especially in a game where combat is already a joke) still makes someone a munchkin. I don't have any problem with how you play your game. Powergame your heart out but games can't be designed around power gamer's wishes unless you want Diablo or something.

Here's one of much better definitions:

You ARE a munchkin if your horse wears plate armor +5.

 

Shdy314, you don't know what you are talking about. Study game materials. One doesn't need to be a munchkin to get Bacca's ceremonial blade (fully upgraded): 6-16phys, + 4en, +2d6 vs Droid, +2d6 on Crit, toHit +4.

Work out your brain, try to create a crystal combo (without HoG/MotF) to get close to this.

[AlanC9]

Shdy314, you don't know what you are talking about. Study game materials. One doesn't need to be a munchkin to get Bacca's ceremonial blade (fully upgraded): 6-16phys, + 4en, +2d6 vs Droid, +2d6 on Crit, toHit +4.

Work out your brain, try to create a crystal combo (without HoG/MotF) to get close to this.

Yikes! Maybe downgrading melee weapons is important in itself.

[Shdy314]

Here's one of much better definitions:

You ARE a munchkin if your horse wears plate armor +5.

 

Shdy314, you don't know what you are talking about. Study game materials. One doesn't need to be a munchkin to get Bacca's ceremonial blade (fully upgraded): 6-16phys, + 4en, +2d6 vs Droid, +2d6 on Crit, toHit +4.

Work out your brain, try to create a crystal combo (without HoG/MotF) to get close to this.

I prefer real definitions. That isn't a definition. Just a joke. Like your argumnents. You say lightsabers are underpowered because of Bacca's ceremonial blade? That is a legendary wookie war blade. Of course it kicks a** fully upgraded. Might it be overpowered? Sure. That just means it and some other weapons should be lessened in power. It is completely fallacious to claim logically other weapons must then be given even more power to balance it all out. I like how you tell me to try and prove you wrong but then put limitations on it. Hey how about you tell me what weapons are more powerful than lightsabers but don't include any blades.

How about you calm down and learn to accept criticism? <_<

[ichpokhudezh]

Here's one of much better definitions:

  You ARE a munchkin if your horse wears plate armor +5.

 

Shdy314, you don't know what you are talking about. Study game materials. One doesn't need to be a munchkin to get Bacca's ceremonial blade (fully upgraded): 6-16phys, + 4en, +2d6 vs Droid, +2d6 on Crit, toHit +4.

Work out your brain, try to create a crystal combo (without HoG/MotF) to get close to this.

I prefer real definitions. That isn't a definition. Just a joke. Like your argumnents. You say lightsabers are underpowered because of Bacca's ceremonial blade? That is a legendary wookie war blade. Of course it kicks a** fully upgraded. Might it be overpowered? Sure. That just means it and some other weapons should be lessened in power. It is completely fallacious to claim logically other weapons must then be given even more power to balance it all out. I like how you tell me to try and prove you wrong but then put limitations on it. Hey how about you tell me what weapons are more powerful than lightsabers but don't include any blades.

How about you calm down and learn to accept criticism? <_<

You are a troll (kinda stupid at that too)

This is pointless.

You're out of your element, shoo!

[Shdy314]

You are a troll (kinda stupid at that too)

This is pointless.

You're out of your element, shoo!

On the Internet, troll is a slang term for a person who posts messages without contributory content, simply intended to incite conflict. The actual subject is a mere ludibrium for the troll, who is a type of opportunistic provocateur.

 

I am not disagreeing with you merely for the sake of argument. I am merely pointing out your idea is consistently proven to be a stupid feature in video games. I have also included a wide number of reasons this is so. I've also made numerous constructive posts and a few topics with the sole purpose of contributing my thoughts and ideas to making KOTOR 2 a better game. Just because they may come into conflict with your views does not make me a troll. Indeed your calling me a troll and the other assorted names you've used in addition to calling me stupid because you cannot address a single concern or question that has been directed at you is far more trollish.

 

I agree giving more power to lightsabers is pointless.

 

I'm out of my element? You haven't exactly proven yourself to be a master debater here.

[ichpokhudezh]

Agreed. The specific numbers are irrelevant. What counts is the relative damage between weapon types. Of course, more damage can mean faster combat, and possibly more difficult combat depending on healing rules.

 

I've seen people arguing both for blasters doing more damage and for lightsabers doing more damage. Except for hurting blade wielders (a good thing IMO), how would doing both really change the game? Wouldn't we be in the same place we are now?

First of all, BioWare nerfed blaster on the premise that energy shields have become a staple everywhere. But even on Taris melee weapons are so much more powerful than blasters. And besides, a blaster rifle was not a serious threat for a soldier - you were always able to run and engage in melee.

And again, if blasters will become much more powerful then the role of a lightsaber in a combat will be so much more pronounced (even without any crystals or what have you).

[Shdy314]

Nothing was nerfed. This is NOT SW D20. It is simply the way it is in KOTOR. There was never a change therefore no nerfing.

[jaguars4ever]

All I asked was you address my concerns I brought up in my original post. Don't go calling me names just because you can't. And name calling is a lot more inflammatory than me disagreeing with you and laying out all the reasons why. Get your act together. this is a message board. No need to get worked up. Don't post anything if you can't take criticism.

Look friend, I'm not seeking any quarrel with you, but look at the facts.

 

I haven't explicitly "called you names" as such. I'm merely describing your belligerent attitude. Characterizing you comments as impudent (lacking modesty

), or insolent ( insultingly contemptuous in speech ), seems to accurately portray your behavior, does it not?

 

And name calling is a lot more inflammatory than me disagreeing with you and laying out all the reasons why

 

Firstly I'm not launching personal attacks on you. You are. Secondly, lets see you "disagreeing with", whilst "laying out all the reasons why":

 

 

Oh yeah that'd be great. 

 

Flame marked by sarcasm.

 

Hmm on second thought this is an incredibly stupid idea.  <_<

 

Another judgemental troll.

 

Just repeated yourself saying how great it would be but offering no explanation and answering not a single point I mentioned

 

Rather arrogant to assume I was talking to you, when I was addressing Ichpokhudezh's point.

 

"Rwrawwwk. I think it'd be kewl to make items break because I enjoy seeing that feature it's so realistic and I just bet every gamer in the whole world will love it too. Rwark what's that? Not worth implementing you say? Nonsense! Why?... Rwark because I like it."  <_<

 

Now that condescending flame is rather bestial, isn't it?

 

Get your act together

 

Follow your own advice, mate.

 

Don't post anything if you can't take criticism

 

First of all, it's not your place to tell me whether I should or should not post anything. Secondly, there's a distinct different between "criticism" and outright malicious belittling.

 

 

 

You and Nartwak of all people (being experienced posters on this board), should know better than to stoop to such indecorous behavior.

 

<_<

[Shdy314]

All I asked was you address my concerns I brought up in my original post. Don't go calling me names just because you can't. And name calling is a lot more inflammatory than me disagreeing with you and laying out all the reasons why. Get your act together. this is a message board. No need to get worked up. Don't post anything if you can't take criticism.

Look friend, I'm not seeking any quarrel with you, but look at the facts.

 

I haven't explicitly "called you names" as such. I'm merely describing your belligerent attitude. Characterizing you comments as impudent (lacking modesty

), or insolent ( insultingly contemptuous in speech ), seems to accurately portray your behavior, does it not?

 

And name calling is a lot more inflammatory than me disagreeing with you and laying out all the reasons why

 

Firstly I'm not launching personal attacks on you. You are. Secondly, lets see you "disagreeing with", whilst "laying out all the reasons why":

 

 

Oh yeah that'd be great.

[jaguars4ever]

Shdy314,May 11 2004, 01:01 PM]

 

It's obvious you are hypersensitive

 

Sensitive people always think everything is a flame.

 

It just seems rather hypocritical that you feel that others are "oversensitive".

 

 

Don't go calling me names

 

seemed to be your hallucination despite your later stance of:

 

Oh you haven't EXPLICITLY called me anything.

[AlanC9]

First of all, BioWare nerfed blaster on the premise that energy shields have become a staple everywhere. But even on Taris melee weapons are so much more powerful than blasters. And besides, a blaster rifle was not a serious threat for a soldier - you were always able to run and engage in melee.

And again, if blasters will become much more powerful then the role of a lightsaber in a combat will be so much more pronounced (even without any crystals or what have you).

Because sabers can deflect blaster fire and melee weapons can't? Fair enough.

[Shdy314]

Shdy314,May 11 2004, 01:01 PM]

 

It's obvious you are hypersensitive

 

Sensitive people always think everything is a flame.

 

It just seems rather hypocritical that you feel that others are "oversensitive".

 

 

Don't go calling me names

 

seemed to be your hallucination despite your later stance of:

 

Oh you haven't EXPLICITLY called me anything.

[pimpin in 2004]

what is your problem fool if you got one with jags you got one with me.