The Lightsaber

[Volourn]

Welcome to the Internet Member #316.

[Darque]

LOL....

 

[kefka]

Why not? In the movies do you see any blades inflecting more damage then a lightsaber? No!

 

The Lightsaber IS and in the game SHOULD be the most powerful melee weapon.

Well, then you'd get people complaining that the lightsaber is overpowered. Just like we're seeing here.

 

But I agree with you, the lightsaber should be the most powerful melee weapon.

[triCritical]

Odd that people are saying that lightsabres were underpowered in KOTRO when it was obvious that lightsbares were the most powerful weapon in KOTOR. Weird. Oh, i see, they're comparing them to the movies. *yawn* Sorry, unless you want Obsidian to forgo hit points and the like; lightsabres will not guaranatee one hit kills most of the time as that would be boring in a GAME.

Bioware did not have a problem putting all the insta-kill crap in their DnD games. Hell even BG my character can be insta-killed by the first ogre it gets hit by on its way to friendly arms, and the first bounty hunter that can cast level 5 magic missile on a 1rst level character. Do the math and get off you're emotional roller coaster.

[kefka]

Odd that people are saying that lightsabres were underpowered in KOTRO when it was obvious that lightsbares were the most powerful weapon in KOTOR.

Were they really more powerful? Until you found some good crystals ordinary melee weapons were better. There's some good blades available early in Kotor.

[Drakron]

Were they really more powerful? Until you found some good crystals ordinary melee weapons were better. There's some good blades available early in Kotor.

Item placement is a diferent issue.

[Darque]

Item placement is a diferent issue.

 

Not with regards to total item balancing.

[Volourn]

Tri: Who's emotional? Certainly not me. And, you could die (only if you sucked or the enemy got a real lucky hit) on the first ship in KOTOR since you don't exactly have a great ac or lots of hp either. In basiclaly every game; the character is always suspectible to dying in one shot. Insta kill crap is a aprt of D&D; if they didn't have them; the likes of you would be whining about them butchering even more of the D&D rules. LOL

 

The point is in the movies, lightsbares are pretty much one hit and you are either dead or severely wounded pretty much automatically. That doesn't work as a common course in a game - not even FO was like with its crits since they rarely happened (unless you were billionth level) - as it would get boring eitehr way. Just ask anyone who has the NWN version of insta kill from HOTU. It is so overpowered and has the quick capacity to ruin games to the point that PW creators have either banned it outright, or have gone the low road to making all enemies immune to criticals/death attacks. That's baically what lightsbares would be akin to if they followed like the SW movies. You'd think Obsidian would not make the same mistakes as Bioware has. Tsk, tsk.

 

 

P.S. What first bounty hunter? the first ones only use daggers. LOL Better go play Bg again if youa re going to use it in discussions. And, if you mean the one by the Friendly Arm Inn; he doesn't even have to be the first. Silly goose. And, if youa re still level 1 by the time you reach him; don't blame BIo blame yourself. Period.

 

 

Kefka: Best way tod etermine that is when you get Batista into your aprty. My character was a warrior and higher level than her with the best melee wepaon at the time; and she overall was much more dnagerous than mine was. It's not so bad then; but ad din the crystals on top of it; and other weapons were not even the same galaxy as lightsbare power.

[Opus131]

Mmmh, what about energy shields ?!?

[triCritical]

P.S. What first bounty hunter? the first ones only use daggers. LOL Better go play Bg again if youa re going to use it in discussions. And, if you mean the one by the Friendly Arm Inn; he doesn't even have to be the first. Silly goose. And, if youa re still level 1 by the time you reach him; don't blame BIo blame yourself. Period.

The first one outside the tutorial, which was optional.

 

Who's emotional?

 

You mister I stand for nothing and just say sh!t to argue.

 

And, you could die (only if you sucked or the enemy got a real lucky hit) on the first ship in KOTOR since you don't exactly have a great ac or lots of hp either. In basiclaly every game; the character is always suspectible to dying in one shot. Insta kill crap is a aprt of D&D; if they didn't have them; the likes of you would be whining about them butchering even more of the D&D rules. LOL

 

No look at the damage an ogre does, or the damage that a 5th level magic missile does and you find that it wipes out most first level characters quite easily.

 

As for insta-kill being part of DnD, don't you think light sabers that behave like light sabers should be a part of star wars. Hell that is about the only thing that sets Star Wars apart from the rest of the corny space fantasy crap out there.

 

The point is in the movies, lightsbares are pretty much one hit and you are either dead or severely wounded pretty much automatically. That doesn't work as a common course in a game - not even FO was like with its crits since they rarely happened (unless you were billionth level) - as it would get boring eitehr way. Just ask anyone who has the NWN version of insta kill from HOTU. It is so overpowered and has the quick capacity to ruin games to the point that PW creators have either banned it outright, or have gone the low road to making all enemies immune to criticals/death attacks. That's baically what lightsbares would be akin to if they followed like the SW movies. You'd think Obsidian would not make the same mistakes as Bioware has. Tsk, tsk.

 

1) The movies have very good, and long light saber fights. Perhaps they could have tried using a different combat model. Perhaps spent less time lip syncing and more time with combat aspects. Maybe added dismemberment (sp?). Who knows, but they could have made it better then glorified swords +3.

 

2) Most guns that didn't completely suck in FO, were insta kill. Not to mention that getting hit with a SMG on burst at close range pretty meant you enemy was going to be dead two times over. Unless you're wearing power armor toward the end of the game, guns kill with every hit, at most two!

 

3) Don't start the character out with light sabers. Don't make the combat ubiquitous. Don't make combat the only use for light sabers.

[Weiser_Cain]

They should be as close to the movie as possible(with fun being the only other counter balance) with one hit kills/maiming. The balance should come from the skill inherent in anyone even being able to weild a lightsaber. Parrying and dodging should be king to a jedi, who as we all know normaly wear no armor. Any lightsaber weilding foe should be considered a mini-boss.

 

We shouldn't really worry about a balance between lightsabers and guns because guns are range weapons and lightsabers are only useful at a fairly close range, you would worry about the lack of balance between a long sword and a bow would you?

[triCritical]

They should be as close to the movie as possible(with fun being the only other counter balance) with one hit kills/maiming. The balance should come from the skill inherent in anyone even being able to weild a lightsaber. Parrying and dodging should be king to a jedi, who as we all know normaly wear no armor. Any lightsaber weilding foe should be considered a mini-boss.

 

We shouldn't really worry about a balance between lightsabers and guns because guns are range weapons and lightsabers are only useful at a fairly close range, you would worry about the lack of balance between a long sword and a bow would you?

Great post!

[prsrulez]

Decapitations!!!

[Drakron]

One hit/one kill is rare in RPGs, first is a very frustating feature since it will apply more to the player characters that the NPCs.

 

The Star Wars movies also tend to show the one shoot/one kill and I doubt people will like that idea much.

 

Instant death and limb loss are bad ideas on RPGs, Fallout system did allow it but they also made sure the player was properly equipted before facing then and limb loss was never permantent.

[Sarkile]

I'm okay without one hit kills, but it would be nice if a lightsaber could cut through a butterknife. It doesn't really feel like a lightsaber if everyone with a sword can parry it.

[Drakron]

That is another issue but not diferent from the "one-shoot-one-kill".

 

By removing the weapons of the enemies you are simply making the challange non existent, in Jedi Knight series I can push the weapons from the enemy and they simply run around until they grab a weapon and its not so much of a issue on that game because its a FPS.

 

Breaking the other enemy weapon is the same as removing, a lv 20 character unarmed is simply not a challange to armed character.

 

Also as BAB indicates "to hit" there are modifiers, attacking a smaller enemy would add a penalty as attacking a larger enemy would give a bonus.

 

Now since weapons in the d20 system have sizes its a matter of being able to hit it and the ability of the weapon to sustain damage before destruction, the system allow that because its a trade off ... less loot for a easier challance that will net the same XP result.

 

Also it would happen to the character and his NPC party members, its not "fun" when your buddy repeater gun gets cut in half since he have to switch weapon (and in the d20 system nobody have infinite cargo capacity and access to the same inventory) and he just lost part of his resources.

[Shdy314]

Bioware did not have a problem putting all the insta-kill crap in their DnD games. Hell even BG my character can be insta-killed by the first ogre it gets hit by on its way to friendly arms, and the first bounty hunter that can cast level 5 magic missile on a 1rst level character. Do the math and get off you're emotional roller coaster.

Being a weak character and taking on a far superior foe is not insta-kill crap. I'm sure you could kill Sith guards in one swipe of your lightsaber by the end of KOTOR but that didn't mean you had insta-kills.

[Bless]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how the sabre is so weak. The right combo of crystals and you have the best weapon in the game. It may be only marginally better than a few melee weapons, [read -- as in two or three] but the lightsabre is just another weapon. Though we may hold it aloft and in awe - isn't it purdy - it is a game, and so the weapons do have to be somewhat equal. We can't just go through a game dicing everyone up because our weapon has the ability to oh, say, bisect someone.

 

I guess my point is just that it's a game and there have to be rules. It can't be everything we want it to be because that would make the game less fun. But it almost is. I always use the sabre and it's always got the highest hits and damage for me [over any other weapons]. So I really don't see the weakness.

[jaguars4ever]

Lightsabers should be able to destroy opponent's weapon.

I agree. That's the very least they should do, since you won't be able to dismember the enemies limbs.

[Shdy314]

Oh yeah that'd be great. It's difficult to implement, makes fights even easier, destroys game balance, a hit from a blaster could destroy a weapon just as much as a lightsaber so then you have to implement breaking weapons and let every weapon have the possibility of breaking a weapon, and then you have to hear five people say "Wow, kewl" and 5 million people complain how everyone except Jedi are now useless because HK-47's blaster rifle is destroyed every time you fight Sith, and we've seen lightsabers be destroyed before so obviously lightsabers should be breakable too and then everyone complains how they have to build a new lightsaber after every fight. Or it hardly ever happens and people complain how enemies seem to break their weapon a lot more then they break enemies weapons or that 10k credit blaster rifle is now lost forever.... Hmm on second thought this is an incredibly stupid idea. <_<

 

Let's try and remember first and foremost this is a game. Not the holosuite in Star Trek.

[jaguars4ever]

Oh yeah that'd be great.    It's difficult to implement, makes fights even easier, destroys game balance, a hit from a blaster could destroy a weapon just as much as a lightsaber so then you have to implement breaking weapons and let every weapon have the possibility of breaking a weapon, and then you have to hear five people say "Wow, kewl" and 5 million people complain how everyone except Jedi are now useless because HK-47's blaster rifle is destroyed every time you fight Sith, and we've seen  lightsabers be destroyed before so obviously lightsabers should be breakable too and then everyone complains how they have to build a new lightsaber after every fight. Or it hardly ever happens and people complain how enemies seem to break their weapon a lot more then they break enemies weapons or that 10k credit blaster rifle is now lost forever.... Hmm on second thought this is an incredibly stupid idea. <_<

 

Let's try and remember first and foremost this is a game.  Not the holosuite in Star Trek.

Morrowind, one of the best RPG's, incorporated a 'damage sustained to weapon' system. So this idea is not unheard of in a CRPG.

 

Secondly, comparing the effects of Lightsabers in the movies is hardly insignificant, as it represents what the lightsaber is meant to be.

 

On the topic of movie-to-game integration of lightsaber eventualites, the devs of KotOR did succesfully depict 'blaster bolt deflection'. If the guys at Obsidian could somehow subsume the other properties (e.g. Obi-Wan using the saber to absorb Force Lightning, Qui-Gon piercing through armored plating, Mace Windu destoying Jango's blaster), it would add an unequivocal flavor of realism.

 

[Sarkile]

Being able to destroy weapons isn't that big of a deal for me, it just would've been nice if everyone didn't have a sword that could parry a lightsaber. They wouldn't even have had to go to the rediculous cortosis explanation if they had just changed the animation so someone with a metal weapon would only try to dodge the Jedi.

[Nartwak]

Morrowind, one of the best RPG's, blah blah blah. I'm a dumbf***.

Fixed.

[Arkan]

^ Hahaha!

 

That was good...and I like Morrowind...

[jaguars4ever]

Morrowind, one of the best RPG's, blah blah blah. I'm a dumbf***.

Fixed.

I see that your maturity is as woefully pathetic as your sense of decency. <_<