Abilities & various other (damage related) mechanics revealed

[peddroelm]

the non-editing rule sucks .. Looking trough the game file - girdle of mortal protection bonus is 0.7333 -1 = -  0.2667

 

 

 

- Envenomed strike & Deep wounds do RAW damage (bypass DR).. ES has base damage per tick 12 , DW has 3 .. (every 3 seconds) 

- Might bonus applies normally to both ticks

- INT affects duration for both abilities 

- DW is autohit provided weapon hits - so hit quality does not affect its damage. 

- ES duration is affected by its separate hitquality check vs fortitude (can miss vs fortitude even if weapon landed the hit) .. 

- both overwrite themselves at reapplication from same character - did not test with multiple chars .. 

- DW is superior in hard fights vs hard to hit bosses - since even a graze eaten by DR will guarantee 25+ RAW damage on a high might, high int rogue ..

- ES can hit very hard on high INT&Might char but only after you've debuffed deflection & fortitude (at which point it isn't a hard fight anymore) 

 

test data

http://forums.obsidi...s/#entry1693257

 

 

Fulvano's amulet 15% healing bonus works with everything I tested against and is multiplicative to boot (lay on hands, potions of endurance and regeneration, healing scrolls, shod-in-faith boots ..etc  ) 

 

Intellect stat affects the duration of HoT effects ( scroll of moonwell, consecrated ground , potions of regeneration, .. ) . You need high might and intellect to get most healing out of those items. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

finishing blow FB /devastating blow DB

 

20-20 staff

20 might ,  Reckless assault

CE/ME - current endurance/maximum endurance

SA - sneak attack

 

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 + 0.5 - 0.5) == 40 // graze FB, SA vs 1 CE/ME

 

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 ) * ( 2.5 - 3 * 0.3) == 64 // hit FB  0.3 CE/ME

 

// Level up and pick Devastating Blow

 

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5) ==  60 crit, FB , DB, SA vs 1 CE/ME  // DB does nothing for the additive FB component

 

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 ) * ( 2.5 - 3 * 0.3 + X) * Y  ?? 80 // hit FB, DB  0.3 CE/ME

(Y = 1 X = 0.4) OR (X = 0  Y = 1.25)

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 ) * 2 = 80

 

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 ) * ( 2.5 - 3 * 0.1 + X) * Y  ?? 120  //  hit FB, DB  0.1 CE/ME

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 ) * ( 2.5 - 3 * 0.1 ) * 1.25 = 110 WRONG

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 ) * ( 2.5 - 3 * 0.1 + 0.4) = 104 WRONG

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 ) * 3 = 120 

 

TESTs

// 0.5   40 

// 0.4   60

// 0.3   80

// 0.2  100       125 Crit   75 Graze

// 0.1  120 

// 0.01 138  *3.5

 

* 1  .. * 3.5

* 1  .. * 2.5

 

 

FB scaling component is (2.5 - 3 * CE/ME ) for for CE/ME from 0.5 to 0 . Multiplier from *1 to *2.5. 

So DB modifies FB scaling component to (3.5 - 5 * CE/ME ) for CE/ME from 0.5 to 0 .. Multiplier from *1 to *3.5. 

 

verify 0.2 CE/ME crit & graze 

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 - 0.5) * (3.5 - 5 * 0.2) =  75 OK

20 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.5 + 0.5) * (3.5 - 5 * 0.2) = 125 OK

Edited May 20, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

Blood Testament 

 

20 might 16 int monk

 

sabre 19-19  0 DR target

 

19 * (1 + 0.3 - 0.5) =  15.2// graze

 

/////////////////////

 

(3 wounds)

+0 ms |Health Damage 26.188049 //hit 24.7 slash + 1.5 RAW 

 

19 *( 1 + 0.3) = 24.7

24.7 * (0.02)*3 = 1.482    24.7 + 24.7 * (0.02)*3 = 26.182

24.7 + 1.5 = 26.2 

 

///////////////

 

(7 wounds) fighting spirit

 

+0 ms |Health Damage 42.243500 // crit 37.1 + 5.2 RAW 

 

19 * ( 1 + 0.3 + 0.15 + 0.5) = 37.05

37.05 * 0.02 * 7 = 5.187

37.05 + 5.187 = 42.237 

37.1 + 5.187 = 42.287

37.05 + 5.2 = 42.25    // trying to figure out various rounding steps

 

/////////////////

/////////////////

Activate Savage Attack // Fighting spirit

10 wounds 

 

19 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.5) = 40.9 //crit  NO RAW DAMAGE ?!?!?

 

//TR hit 31.4 crush + 15.7 crush NO RAW damage - maybe the level up messed bonuses up ? Re equip gloves - fixed it

//////////

 

SA  + 7 wounds

+0 ms |Health Damage 32.496521 // hit 28.5 + 4 RAW 

19 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2) = 28.5

28.5 * 0.02 * 7 = 3.99

 

////////////////

/////////////////  

SA , fighing spirit - MONKS ARE HARDLIMITED TO MAXIMUM 10 WOUNDS EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE ENDURANCE FOR 5 times that

 

+0 ms |Health Damage 37.626862 // 31.4 + 6.3

19 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.15) = 31.35

31.35 * 0.2 = 6.27

 

////////////////////

////////////////////

crit TR // LS // fighting spirit

8 wounds

 

40.9 slash + 20.4 crush + 10.2 shock + 6.5 RAW

19 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.15 + 0.5) = 40.85

40.85 * 0.02 * 8 = 6.536

 

////////////////////

////////////////////

 

again gloves stopped working

re-equip

//////////////////////

///////////////////////

vs plate armor 15 slash DR

 

4 wounds

crit 38-15 DR + 0.0 RAW

 

38 * 0.02 * 4 = 3.04

38 * 0.02 * 4 - 15*0.25 = - 0.71  // BUG the RAW damage is not RAW ENOUGH

 

///////////

The gloves seem to stop working after each encounter 

 

////////////

/////////////

 

10 wounds crit vs 4 slash DR 4 base DR

40.9 -4 + 7.2 RAW

40.85 * 0.02 * 10 = 8.17

40.85 * 0.02 * 10 - 4 * 0.25 = 7.17   // YUP  is not RAW

 

////////////////////////

/////////////////////////

 

7 wounds Flagellant's Path  14 Crush DR  7 base DR   3.5 Slash DR  (equipped dual sabre)

 

33.9 crush - 14 (crush DR)  + 3 RAW  

33.9 * 0.02 * 7 - 7 * 0.25 = 2.99

 

/////////////

9 wounds sabre vs same Dank spore

 

40.9 - 3.5 (slash DR) + 4.8 RAW

40.85 * 0.02 * 8 - 3.5 * 0.25 = 5.661

40.85 * 0.02 * 8 - 7 * 0.25 = 4.78

 

////////////////////

////////////////////////

 

Conclusion (blood testament unique Monk Gloves)

 

- BUG they seem to stop working - need re-equipping after each encounter

- BUG they DON'T do RAW damage   (will often add next to 0 damage vs POTD armored targets)

- they add 0.02 damage (weapon type) - 0.25 * target's base DR per wound . Maximum 20% lash damage .. 

- applies to Flagellant's path damage (similar to turning wheel & lightning strike lashes)

 

- NEW DISCOVERY -  MONKS ARE LIMITED TO MAXIMUM 10 WOUNDS (very very low value compared to what they could accumulate without limit ) .. I guess a balance decision that forces you to spend them and prevents uber Turning Wheel + Blood Testament damage from stacked constitution + heal monks rooting pain from winning encounters vs swarm enemies without lifting a finger ..

Edited May 21, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

Rime and Frost fallowed the footfalls of Kath chant

 

Not a rigorous test but I take a look to get an idea of what this ability does.. 

 

-It will cause all affected party members to drop Rime & Frost traps (don't know if chanter's INT score has influence on how often).. With many summons - many traps .. 

-It does (probably) base 10-15  freeze damage and 10 seconds base duration for hobble effect .. 

-Probably works best for fast - ranged kiting party (slows down pursuing enemies and lowers their reflex save)

-Seems to have very high accuracy - with my level 7 party I've seen (112 , 135 , 119, 117 , 127) .. Don't know why such high variation - my chars had 0, 1 (+3) or 10 (+30) mechanics skill .. I hear about people complaining about trap accuracy nerfs but those accuracy numbers seem very high to me .. Could fighting spirit had anything to do with it ? WEAPON ENCHANTMENT ?!  Worth investigating further .

 

lvl 6 chanter 9 mechanics    dual swords      102
lvl 1 fighter 0 mechanics    axe  // dual fist 87

///////////////
///////////////

console command -9 mechanics  char screen shows 0 mechanics   still 102 // 87 accuracy

chanter's mechanics has no influence ?!??!

102 -( 25 + 6 * 4 - 3 ) = 56
87 - (30 + 1*4 -3) = 56

//////////////////
//////////////////

measured restraint +12 + 5  (+12 single)   //  ba + sword calisca

102 // 87

///////////
////////////// lvl 2 calisca
102 // 91

87 - (30 + 2*4 -3)

/////////////
////////////// lvl 12 chanter

126 // 87

126 - (25 + 12 * 4 - 3) = 56

////////////////
/////////////////

Meaning for lvl 7 with zealous focus ///  figthing spirit //reckless assault

30 + 7*4 -3 + 6 + 56 = 117
25 + 7*4 -3 + 6 + 56 = 112  

112 + 7  = 119

(112 117 119 127 135)

 

Weapon enchantments don't seem to add accuracy to the rime & frost targets. Neither are the mechanics skill of the chanter or party members.. Are those rim & frost traps really receiving +56 !!!! accuracy ?

Edited May 26, 2015 by peddroelm

[AndreaColombo]

I've got a request

 

Shields apply a recovery time penalty that is currently undocumented. How much is that? Does it vary depending on shield type?

[peddroelm]

I've got a request

 

Shields apply a recovery time penalty that is currently undocumented. How much is that? Does it vary depending on shield type?

As far as I know shields don't apply ANY recovery penalty .. The "penalty" for equipping a shield is disabling of +12 accuracy bonus for free off hand or off hand attacks .. (also the big ones come with extra accuracy penalty which also affects most special attacks to hit rolls)

 

Could try this - hire/level 2 identical adventurers, equip them with  with identical gear , add shield to one of them and make them attack same target .. Their attacks should be perfectly synchronized ..

[Manty5]

If a carnage barb uses a dual-damage-type weapon like sword's slash/pierce, will the carnage slash/pierce be optimized individually for each foe's vulnerability, or does every enemy take the same damage type, presumably predicated on the main hit's damage type?

 

I'm not sure that the log would properly show it if it was rolled individually.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Manty5

[peddroelm]

the log shows all carnage rolls.. Easy to check - should work properly ..

[Nobear]

I have a request pedroelm: I'd love it if you could test a cipher's Recall Agony, or maybe you know how it works already, but I have searched and cannot find a conclusive answer for this. There are a lot of conflicting opinions.

 

Some possibilities:

 

a) It does nothing. The combat log doesn't report it, and if it feels like an enemy has gone down faster, it may just be a placebo or a coincidence with lucky hits/crits from other party members. Perhaps your methods can help reveal this.

 

b) It reapplies 30% of ALL damage done by ALL party members BEFORE you cast Recall Agony, over the stated time. This would make it potentially very powerful if you apply it after a single tough enemy has gone down say 50% or so.

 

c) It reapplies 30% of ONLY the Cipher's damage done before you cast Recall Agony.

 

With b or c, there are still the questions of whether this is applied with a single DoT totaling 30% of damage done, or a separate DoT for 30% of each instance of damage done, and what % of DR these go against.

 

d) It starts applying DoTs based on 30% of each hit done AFTER you apply Recall Agony. In this case, would DoTs from future hits override or add to previous ones, or would the strongest suppress the others?

 

Finally, with possibilities b through d, would higher Int reduce the DPS and possibly even total damage done (if each tick has to go through some portion of DR)?

[peddroelm]

noted.. It's been a while since I've played Poe // done tests .. Might take a look at this tomorrow (never made a cipher class before so all their abilities are foreign to me ) 

[Nobear]

Thank you very much. You are like the one go-to person for game mechanics info here it seems lol, I found some of your other info useful.

 

Oh yeah, one possibility I didn't list is that Recall Agony might only be based on either the last hit, or damage done up to a certain length of time before it's cast. The tooltip doesn't specify that it's all the damage done so far in an encounter, but that's what I imagine the designers most likely intended.

[peddroelm]

sorry about the delay . I promise I'll get it done - sometime this week , the civilization V spark is just burning very brightly at the moment ..

[Nobear]

lol it's ok. I mean I'm still interested to know, because I haven't replaced my adventurer with Grieving Mother yet and could always take different skills on her, but my adventurer is taking all CC skills instead since I don't fully understand Recall Agony.

[Raven Darkholme]

I do

lol it's ok. I mean I'm still interested to know, because I haven't replaced my adventurer with Grieving Mother yet and could always take different skills on her, but my adventurer is taking all CC skills instead since I don't fully understand Recall Agony.

I don't think it's a good skill.

[AndreaColombo]

Hello,

 

I was running some tests to verify whether elemental talents affect a druid's Wildstrike ability, which I now believe they do, but something about my damage calculation is off and I don't understand why.

 

Example:

 

 

 

Scarel is wearing an armor whose DR vs. Corrode is 14.

 

Here's my math:

 

Wildstrike damage = 21.9 * 30% = 6.57

DR vs. Wildstrike = 14 * 25% = 3.5

Total elemental damage from Wildstrike = 6.57 - 3.5 = 3.07

 

Spirit of Decay damage = 21.9 * 20% = 4.38

DR vs. Spirit of Decay = 14 * 25% = 3.5

Total elemental damage from Spirit of Decay = 0.88

 

3.07 + 0.88 = 3.96 (rounded up to 4).

 

But the actual damage dealt was 4.4. What am I doing wrong?

[Sabotin]

Are you sure the DR vs corrode is exactly 14? If I remember right the game calculates the special DRs as a % bonus/penalty on the armor's base, so any flat bonuses are modified by that? Or maybe it has something to do with MIN damage?

 

 

 

Anyways, I've been doing some tests to see what effect dex and recovery has on overall damage output and stumbled upon something weird with the weapons' base attack speeds.

 

It seems 2h melee weapons hit faster than they're supposed to. They are labeled as "slow", but they're in synch with "average" speed 1h melee weapons when attacking.

Ranged weapons seem to hit slower than they're supposed to. Hunting bows and scepters for example are labeled as "fast" but comparing to melee weapons they're in sync with "average" ones. War bows, which the game says are "average", hit slower than "average" type melee weapons.

 

Couldn't really compare reloading weapons to see if that's true for them too. Pistols reload slightly faster than arbalests even though they're both "very slow" but I'm not sure that tells anything.

 

Anyone else has this? Bug, feature?

[AndreaColombo]

Are you sure the DR vs corrode is exactly 14? If I remember right the game calculates the special DRs as a % bonus/penalty on the armor's base, so any flat bonuses are modified by that? Or maybe it has something to do with MIN damage?

 

The armor is Sanguine Plate. Its base DR is 14 and it doesn't list any specific modifiers against Corrode, so I simply assumed DR vs. Corrode would also be 14.

 

As for weapon speed, I think it's a bug. Would be good to raise it to devs with a saved game and repro steps (perhaps I can assist with that over the weekend.)

 

EDIT: bug reported.

Edited June 26, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[peddroelm]

21.9 * 0.3 * 1.2 - 14 * 0.25 = 4.384 (rounded up to 4.4 corrode damage in combat log)

 

2h weapons have the same attack speed as "average speed" 1 handed weapons .. Always did ..

Edited June 26, 2015 by peddroelm

[AndreaColombo]

21.9 * 0.3 * 1.2 - 14 * 0.25 = 4.384 (rounded up to 4.4 corrode damage in combat log)

 

But why 1.2?

 

If it's 20%, it should be 0.2, no?

[peddroelm]

* (1 + 0.2) (it is a 20% bonus not a 80% penalty)

Edited June 26, 2015 by peddroelm

[Raven Darkholme]

*bad joke* please delete

Edited June 26, 2015 by Raven Darkholme

[AndreaColombo]

Thank you, Raven. I thought I was great at math but your totally called-for jab put things into perspective.

 

I was applying the bonus from Spirit of Decay to base damage (I.e. 20% of 21.9) instead of applying it to the Corrode damage calculated from Wildstrike. Thanks, peddroelm.

[Raven Darkholme]

That was not intended as insult. You can't even express if you find something funny these days. A similar jab might as well have hit me.

[AndreaColombo]

That's OK; I guess it touched a raw nerve 'cause I know I generally suck at math.

[Raven Darkholme]

Ok, sorry and no hard feelings, I will edit the post, deleting sadly doesn't seem to work here.