[Class Build] Rangerer

[MadDemiurg]

But ranger already is better than rogue at ranged combat. Stunning Shots.

They are kinda limited by working only on mobs engaged by AC, which is made of wet paper at higher levels atm. Still useful, but would be much better if AC was decent.

[Blovski]

Blovski,

 

IMO Marksman should be considered an essential talent for a Ranger.  And beyond that, I'd say that picking whatever weapon focus contains your ranged weapon of choice should also be considered essential.  Whatever boosts your Ranger's accuracy will in the long run also increase the likelihood of getting fewer misses, fewer grazes and more hits and more crits, which translates into more damage.  (Also, having a WF means that you'll have a +6 acc bonus in some melee weapons for those times when you're forced into melee.)

 

 

As for Rogue vs Ranger for better ranged combatant, I think that it's sad that Rogues are better than Rangers.  IMO, rangers should be the best ranged weapons combatants by wide margin.  And their talents should reflect that.  Of course, I suppose one problem here is that it's fairly easy for a player to generate sneak attack situations with various spells, etc so that a ranged rogue gets plenty of shots at sneak attack eligible targets.  I'm not sure what could be done to counter this for the Ranger, other than allowing Rangers to get sneak attack bonus damage (with ranged weapons only) as well.

 

 

 

Also, I agree with your racial choices.    Wood elves are an obvious choice for a ranger with the ranged combat bonuses.  (This is probably just as true for ranged rogues as well.)  Of course, the obvious choice can also be a cliched choice for some.  And your "interesting" alternatives all appear to be solid choices for ranger builds, since each comes with a benefit that can definitely come in handy.  The weakest option is probably the Island Aumaua, if only because it seems to me that you only benefit from it if you choose to use guns.  If you want to be a bow ranger, then having an extra weapons slot is probably less valuable.  The Death Godlike's ability lets you be a better finisher.  The Boreal Dwarf's ability (+15 Acc vs primordials and wilders) is sort of like a racial enemy, and not to be sneezed at.  And the Hearth Orlan's ability to get more crits against enemies being targeted by an ally isn't bad either.

 

The one downside for me to a Death Godlike ranger is that it seems counter intuitive.  If there was going to be a Godlike ranger, one'd think that the obvious choice (abilities aside) would be a Nature Godlike.  But frankly, these racial abilities that only trigger when you get below a certain about of personal END don't do much for me, other than the Moon Godlike's one which makes some sense.  That is, if your END starts getting low, you start healing.  That appeals to me.  OTOH, if your END gets low, you get more stats (i.e. a Nature Godlike)?  Meh.  If I'm a ranger, I should be behind the lines trying to avoid damage, thus reducing the chance that I'd be able to trigger this ability.  I can see this being valuable for something like a monk, but for a ranger, not so much.   Oh well. 

 

One downside for a boreal dwarf ranger, at least for me, is that one of the Companions is already a boreal dwarven ranger, Sagani.  Kinda seems to make her superfluous, but take that as you will.

 

 

 

That's all.  BTW, I'm glad to see this sort of thread, talking about a single class, discussing good racial choices for the class, appropriate talent choices, etc.  I hope to see more threads like this for all of the classes.  IMO, this sort of thread, if done well, ought to be pinned at the top so that new players visiting here can get this info more easily.

Ta very much : )

yeah, the thing is rangers do get some very nice utility stuff (binding roots, animal companion and so on) so I'm kind of OK with a properly spec'd Rogue doing better as a pure archer. That said, I think generating Sneak Attacks seems almost too easy and routine at the moment and Rogues kinda lack flavour for me right now as a result of that. I'm really bothered by the Animal Companion fatigue problem (sometimes you wonder why they're so damn squishy and then realise they have Critical Fatigue because they've been jogging lightly for ten minutes) but I did really enjoy the ranger build.

 

I basically agree about Marksman and WF being essential, since sky-high accuracy is our business but I kinda wanted to keep the essentials list down to as few talents as I possibly could so people felt more at liberty to discuss and spec around it.

 

I know people love their quick-switch, extra weapon, gunner Island Aumaua but I figure opening with a single bouncing, vicious aim Arquebus shot before switching to the bow for reliability is solid and interesting even if you don't go all out on the build. I also reckon that later in the game if you have, say, The White Spire and Tauntain's Staff as your backup weapon you can have a ranger that's both fireballing and blizzarding but, as I mentioned, spellbinds are kinda dodgy at the moment so I'm not sure how it would work in practice.

 

Nature Godlike seems very underwhelming right now in general. Not sure if anyone's doing builds that make use of it. True about Sagani, I played for a bit with two rangers in the party with her having more of an Animal Companion focus, which was entertaining enough.

 

 

1. I don't agree Driving Flight is "obviously good" with hunting bows. Driving Flight deals less damage on second hit, and hunting bows already struggle against DR.

2. I'd consider Swift Aim. -7 Accuracy for 1.5x attack speed. This lets you take "Swift and Steady" talent, +5 accuracy. You end up with 1.5x attack speed and just -2 Accuracy.

3. Animal companions other than wolf have 5 Intelligence since patch 1.03. This means their Takedown duration went down from 5s to 3.8s. 10,10,10... stats on wolf may be an oversight that will be patched, or intentional because wolf serves as "baseline", much like humans are the average race in all fantasy.

4. Binding Roots are not just good for keeping targets away ! It's great for ganging up on enemies, because Stuck gives -20 to Deflection.

 

Marked Prey... even against bosses, it's doubtful it's actually much benefit. If you take Wounding Shot instead, the hobbling effect gives -20  Reflex, which other party members can use.

 

If you're using Hunting Bows, I recommend Combusting Wounds ! A level2 Wizard spell, which makes an enemy take 5 fire damage each time it's hit ! So faster, weaker attacks are actually better.

1. With 8 DR reduction with Lenas Er, a really high crit chance and 5 DR reduction earlier, stack on a few Combusting Wounds/Expose Vulnerabilities type things and it's very relevant to turning blobs of squishies into blobs of squished. The Crit chance from all the aim stacking is through the roof, which helps. 

2. Swift Aim does seem interesting, I don't think it goes with Vicious Aim though and it requires two talents rather than one, so I never took it.

3. Yeah, this isn't a tremendously helpful change, much as it makes sense. Takedown is occasionally clutch if an enemy slips past but hardly great.

4. Yes indeed : )

that is going to really increase your damage on squishy blobs of wizards and the like. As you mention, Combusting Wounds, Expose Vulnerabilities, the Chanter DR reduction and flaming weapon thingies all add to your damage.

 

@Looms:

 

PENETRATING SHOT WITH YOUR HUNTING BOW. Most important talent.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Blovski

[B4nJ0]

Give them a couple of ranged companion: why we can't have smthing like a vivern has a feat future?

Also, buff ALL the AC to be playable in PoTD, pls. You should rescale them to fix difficulty at the very least.

Also, make them viable has off tank at least like retaliation rogue, not even talking about reta baba here.

 

OR delete the class, ty.

 

 

This class NEED some serious improvement, cmon. I would never pick them over nothing in this version...

[Exoduss]

Short Ranger guide:

 

Wood Elf

20 base Dex

Driving Flight

Stunning Shots

Swift Aim

Hunting Bow

2/10 , Come Back next term

 

Might > Dex

Hunting Bow < Anything

Driving Flight - Wasted Skill

Vicious Aim>Swift Aim 

 

Imo At the moment rangers suffer from same problem monks suffered first week of PoE : everybody was sure that you got to play monk with bare fists without armor and qq on forums when it doesnt work , now we got the same problem where everybody thinks that Ranger = Hunter = Hunting Bow = MUCH DAMAGEZ WITH BOWZ , well its not . There are ways to build it so no rogue can come close to your damage when it matters and if rogue outdamages you on last 2 enemies in fight well nobody gives a fck because ranger just 1 hit four squishy mages/archers thus wining the fight .

For me it is like this : Ranged Rogue - Max Range , Sneaky , Silent , Marksman who uses surprise factor to do steady long range dps from safe distance.

Ranger - Mid range ( 8 m range ) gunner/disruptor who can burst harder than any1 else in the game , can use AC to controll the fight , and his CC (Stuning shots / Roots ) to protect back line and provide single target ranged cc .

 

Funny thing is i got both in my party 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Exoduss

[Crucis]

 

Short Ranger guide:

 

Wood Elf

20 base Dex

Driving Flight

Stunning Shots

Swift Aim

Hunting Bow

2/10 , Come Back next term

 

Might > Dex

Hunting Bow < Anything

Driving Flight - Wasted Skill

Vicious Aim>Swift Aim 

 

 

Looms build almost looked like it was meant to generate constant interrupts (if his ranger had a good PER rating).

 

I'm not sure that Driving Flight is useless.  Seems to me that anything that does some more damage to other enemies isn't a bad thing.  Are there better choices by that point?  Perhaps.

 

Yeah, Might may be better than Dex here, a good high action speed for an archer, particularly if you're wearing rather light armor, doesn't seem like a bad thing if it keeps you firing your bow as often as possible.  Of course, if you're using a much slower reloading ranged weapon, perhaps it's not as big an issue.

[MadDemiurg]

Swift aim is useless with a bow, because a bow doesn't have reload. It is quite decent for firearms.

[Exoduss]

Swift aim is useless with a bow, because a bow doesn't have reload. It is quite decent for firearms.

Shh... :D  "Rangers with Bow" crew doesnt even care if it works because if somebody is fine with hunting bow's damage on ranger he must not care much anyway 

 

Sidenote : Fire Arms are meant to be SWITCHED In battle  , for fck sake does it even make sense to reload 17th century firearm in the heat of the battle ? NO

But it is always a decent tactic to have 2-3 of them so you can fire them without reloading 

Do you even Black Flag ;/ 

 

Even Weapon Speciality Ruffian suggests you to try some Pirate builds :D 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Exoduss

[Looms]

@Exoduss

 

If i want a ranged dps party member, ill just make a rogue.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Looms

[Exoduss]

Yes tbh if you want typical oldschool marksman , rogue is defo way to go , Ranger requires alot of creativity and thinking out of the window to pull proper numbers to be atleast even with the rogue 

[MadDemiurg]

 

Swift aim is useless with a bow, because a bow doesn't have reload. It is quite decent for firearms.

Shh... :D  "Rangers with Bow" crew doesnt even care if it works because if somebody is fine with hunting bow's damage on ranger he must not care much anyway 

 

Sidenote : Fire Arms are meant to be SWITCHED In battle  , for fck sake does it even make sense to reload 17th century firearm in the heat of the battle ? NO

But it is always a decent tactic to have 2-3 of them so you can fire them without reloading 

Do you even Black Flag ;/ 

 

Even Weapon Speciality Ruffian suggests you to try some Pirate builds :D 

 

Yeah, you can go with Island Aumaua and 4 weapons for initial burst, but 4 shots won't be enough for PoTD fights. That's when reload kicks in. Plus, it's pretty much impossible to find 4 equally good unique firearms of the same type and the setup ends up to be quite "costly" in terms of gear.

[Looms]

Right now, there is no way to be on par with the rogue. Sneak Attacks are way too easy to get - and that meants Deathblows later. Not to mention crits. Thats why im building a utility ranger, to provide maximum usefullness out of this class.

[MadDemiurg]

Tbh I don't see how ranged rogue is any good either. 50% damage from SA isn't making it and reckless assault is melee only. Deathblow is lvl11 and while quite good, by lvl 11 nuclear warfare takes over while rogue is still shooting its medieval guns.

Edited April 21, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Exoduss]

Only good thing about them is to Finishing Blow "Dweller" for 180 demiurg 

[MadDemiurg]

Dweller at level 11? I did it level 5. Cipher can do like 300+ damage per cast on level 11.

Edited April 21, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Exoduss]

Dweller at level 11? I did it level 5. Cipher can do like 300+ damage per cast on level 11.

Cmon !

THINK :D

 

Finishing Blows = Level 5

DeathBlows - 11 

 

also i think rogue had Bloody Slaughter too not only Finishing Blows so damage multiplyer went crazy this was done with lvl 7 party with paladin pc lvl 8 i think because rogue had exceptional boressaine .

 

Number 180 looked so out of place tbh even wizardlizard with 25 might + 20% burn damage talent doesnt get those numbers yet .

Edited April 21, 2015 by Exoduss

[MadDemiurg]

 

Dweller at level 11? I did it level 5. Cipher can do like 300+ damage per cast on level 11.

Cmon !

THINK :D

 

Finishing Blows = Level 5

DeathBlows - 11 

 

also i think rogue had Bloody Slaughter too not only Finishing Blows so damage multiplyer went crazy this was done with lvl 7 party with paladin pc lvl 8 i think because rogue had exceptional boressaine 

 

I misread finishing blow for deathblow. Imo finishing blow is kinda gimmicky since if you got smth to 25% it's pretty much dead anyway.

[Exoduss]

Yes i agree

Only reason i got those is because with fukin warbow it can take 3~ shots to finish those 25% on POTD unless you crit or something , and this on random add like ogre/drake not even a boss 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Exoduss

[Crucis]

 

 

Swift aim is useless with a bow, because a bow doesn't have reload. It is quite decent for firearms.

Shh... :D  "Rangers with Bow" crew doesnt even care if it works because if somebody is fine with hunting bow's damage on ranger he must not care much anyway 

 

Sidenote : Fire Arms are meant to be SWITCHED In battle  , for fck sake does it even make sense to reload 17th century firearm in the heat of the battle ? NO

But it is always a decent tactic to have 2-3 of them so you can fire them without reloading 

Do you even Black Flag ;/ 

 

Even Weapon Speciality Ruffian suggests you to try some Pirate builds :D 

 

Yeah, you can go with Island Aumaua and 4 weapons for initial burst, but 4 shots won't be enough for PoTD fights. That's when reload kicks in. Plus, it's pretty much impossible to find 4 equally good unique firearms of the same type and the setup ends up to be quite "costly" in terms of gear.

 

 

This is a key point.  You can do 3-4 similarly good unique firearms (plus arbalest, I suppose) if you take the best from each type.  But that creates a different problem.  For starters, you end up with weapons from 3-4 diferent WF groups, meaning that unless you waste a lot talents on different WF's, you're not going to get that consistent +6 to accuracy with all of those weapons. 

 

 

Next, by hording all of the best firearms for a single character, that means that your other characters don't have access to any of those weapons.  This may not matter to some players, but I've been trying to make sure that every character has a ranged option so that I can open every battle with a ranged volley at 1-2 enemies before they get into melee range of my front liners.  And if the ranger is hording the best high damage ranged weapons, then the rest of the party is stuck with sub standard ranged weapons.

 

 

There are two other alternatives I can see here. One, you could enchant some lesser weapons to have better capabilities so that you didn't have poach all the best weapons across different types.  Of course, IIRC, there are a limited number of enchanting supplies available for doing the very best enchantment upgrades, so this is an issue.  Option two could be to simply use generic exceptional or superb weapons to fill up those ranged weapons slots.  They may not be as special as the unique weapons, but all they'll cost is some money and you're not denying your other party members access to the best weapons from other ranged types.  And you could add some minor enchantments to boost them a little as well.  Maybe some lash damage, or just a damaging enchantment.

 

Just a thought.

[Exoduss]

First point about weapon groups is invalid because :

3 Blunderbuss is 1 Weapon group as far as i remember , Forgiveness Pistol with reload speed is same weapon group 

secondly LeadSplitter + Exceptional From Doemenel House + 1 More exceptional you make yourself is NOT MUCH this is like 1 hour of easy quests in act 2.

third : unless you use a cipher marksman and a ranger in 1 team , nobody needs blunderbusses .

Blunderbuss is the key 

You can equip your non marksman characters with Arbalests ( They get prone and 12m range so way better than blunderbuss for some1 who doesnt focus on being marksman )

Your tanks Should use Arquabus'es for alpha strike anyway due to them being in front and arquabus having 10 meter range 

My Team Currently uses :

 

3 BlunderBuss 1 Pistol (Ranger)

2 Arbalests ( Ranger Rogue and Priest 1 Each )

1 WarBow ( Ranged Rogue )

2 Arquabus ( Both Tanks )

Wizard is only one who doesnt use guns because his spells has 12 m range anyway 

 

Every fight has an epic start because 2 adds just die 

 

Also to note : when you get used to switch weapon sets it doesnt feel that bad anymore and then every time you pause to swap weapon you think of something to do with other chars = micromanagement training over 9k

Edited April 21, 2015 by Exoduss

[MadDemiurg]

First point about weapon groups is invalid because :

3 Blunderbuss is 1 Weapon group as far as i remember , Forgiveness Pistol with reload speed is same weapon group 

secondly LeadSplitter + Exceptional From Doemenel House + 1 More exceptional you make yourself is NOT MUCH this is like 1 hour of easy quests in act 2.

third : unless you use a cipher marksman and a ranger in 1 team , nobody needs blunderbusses .

Blunderbuss is the key 

You can equip your non marksman characters with Arbalests ( They get prone and 12m range so way better than blunderbuss for some1 who doesnt focus on being marksman )

Your tanks Should use Arquabus'es for alpha strike anyway due to them being in front and arquabus having 10 meter range 

My Team Currently uses :

 

3 BlunderBuss 1 Pistol (Ranger)

2 Arbalests ( Ranger Rogue and Priest 1 Each )

1 WarBow ( Ranged Rogue )

2 Arquabus ( Both Tanks )

Wizard is only one who doesnt use guns because his spells has 12 m range anyway 

 

Every fight has an epic start because 2 adds just die 

 

Also to note : when you get used to switch weapon sets it doesnt feel that bad anymore and then every time you pause to swap weapon you think of something to do with other chars = micromanagement training over 9k

Lead splitter is much much better than 2 exceptional ones though (which also cost a fair bit of money). That's what i was talking about - hard to find 4 more or less equally good weapons from 1 group.

[Exoduss]

Well Lead Splitter is unique and best in slot....... so ye you are right 

[Blovski]

On the gun discussion - I've not crunched the numbers, though with Swift Aim and Driving Shot and probably having the option to skip Penetrating Shot Gunner Rangers are perfectly fine.The point of *this* build was more to have a flexible ranger that works with a bow and have a few interesting utility things Rogues don't get. The bow ranger's advantage in ROF and not wasting tons of DPS on overkill is still there over gunners (also, anyone can use a gun and do pretty well, not many classes can really work with bows). I'd also note that having a gun-switching build is going to stop you using Spellbind stuff because of how many weapon slots you need to fill. The balance issue relative to Rogues seems to be mostly that sneak attacks are something you can reliably have triggering from whatever range on every hit off of virtually every status effect, which I honestly think is a problem with the Rogue rather than the Ranger.

I'm curious as to what people think of Defensive Bond? I mean, it is a good chunk of blanket defence when it triggers but you're reliant on both your ranger and your pet getting hit. Also, the unique class items seem... underwhelming at best. Not just for the ranger. Anyone found any great ones?

From writing this and playing, here are the changes I'd like to see on the ranger:

Basically fixes:
Animal Companion Fatigue - this feels completely unintentional and isn't very visible to the player and very difficult to work around. They need some Athletics points or not to be affected by it.
Animal Companion Intelligence - The reduced intelligence makes sense but it also cripples AC abilities as choices.

Talent Adjustments:
Animal Companion Feats (we're seeing a theme here) - I think it'd be nice if Animal Companion feats added a little durability or stats or something (it'd be ideal if these were based on your companion's type but even just generic increases would be nice). I'd like to see a Beastmaster type build become more worthwhile.
Marked Prey - Some people swear by it but I think it's kind of rare this is tremendously useful. I'd like a faster cast time to make it more applicable in more fights or a longer duration to make it more valuable when it's currently applicable.

Dream perks:

Elemental ammunition (fire/ice/corrode/shock) - Would be nice having a ranger able to hit lower DRs for a time period and differentiate them a bit more from Rogues as a utility archer rather than a damage one. Would also play well for Archery (and, admittedly, Blunderbusses) since hitting a much lower shock DR on Animats or something would make a much bigger difference for low damage weapons.
Vampiric Link - The Ranger and AC have zero access to healing, I'd like a time activated thing that lets damage the AC does heal the ranger and vice versa.

[Exoduss]

theory crafting something that is prooven to be garbage ( bows on ranger and animal companion talents like defensive bond ) is a waste of time , as its clear that pillars can be completed with any party with any builds or even without a party so if you prefer bows there is noone to stop you , another issue would be bringing it up to the forums and then denying any advice and sticking to bows seems like wasted 44 posts and a thread .

 

/thread

[Crucis]

theory crafting something that is prooven to be garbage ( bows on ranger and animal companion talents like defensive bond ) is a waste of time , as its clear that pillars can be completed with any party with any builds or even without a party so if you prefer bows there is noone to stop you , another issue would be bringing it up to the forums and then denying any advice and sticking to bows seems like wasted 44 posts and a thread .

 

/thread

 

Don't be a jerk.  Plenty of people want nothing to do with guns in a fantasy game.  "Another issue" would be making an arse of yourself by trying to deny that there are people who feel that way and waste a lot of posts doing so.

[MadDemiurg]

Well, bow is better for landing stunning shots for what it's worth.