Post-1.03, Mind Wave or Mind Blades? (Normal Difficulty)

[Feather Sigil]

I restarted my playthrough--not because of the patch--and decided to go a slightly different build with my Cipher, taking Eyestrike instead of Mind Wave early on. I just hit L4 again and I'm conflicted on whether I should take Mind Blades or Mind Wave, operating under the assumption that I'll only ever have one of the two because I can't say for certain what I'll do in later levels.

 

The damage ranges of the two spells are pretty similar. I imagine Mind Wave would probably do more damage to an individual target even though it has a lower base damage, since it bypasses DR while Mind Blades doesn't, but I could be wrong. OTOH, Mind Blades hits multiple targets and therefore will almost certainly always do more damage overall. Mind Wave has a decent AoE size but it just doesn't compare to Mind Blades' amazing coverage. Mind Wave has its CC potential while Mind Blades doesn't, but dead enemies don't need CC.

 

Any advice on which I ought to take?

 

P.S. I would appreciate if nobody said "It's Normal, do whatever". I realize that I'm not on PotD but even then that's just not helpful.

[cavemandiary]

Either one of them are among the best cipher spells. I will suggest mind blades (even after the nerf) because even though mind wave is awesome (especially with a monk... just target him and you get 2-3 wounds and an empty playingfield) once you get mental binding, Mental Binding pretty much always takes priority except in a few encounters where mobs are funneled in a cone.

 

Mindblades however is great as a fire-and-forget spell, no aiming or strategy required, and doesn´t hurt your party unlike mind lance.

[MadDemiurg]

Mind wave damages 1 target, it's primarily a cc spell. Mind blades is an aoe for very dispersed groups of enemies, but it has terrible accuracy since it's +5 vs deflection and needs a roll for each jump.

 

Soul shock is the easiest to use AoE. It has better damage than blades, lower cost and no drawback of stopping the chain on a failed roll. Most mobs should be clustered on your tank anyway so it can often hit more targets as well.

 

Antipathetic field has one of the highest damage potentials of all cipher spells, but it is tricky to use.

[gkathellar]

Mind Blades is still very good, even post-1.03.

[MadDemiurg]

They weren't nerfed that much but they never were the best damage spell, just the least restrictive one in terms of targeting. I used other spells more pre nerf too.

[Varana]

I found Mind Blades highly useful even until the end. It's a quick, cheap AoE spell that doesn't need elaborate positioning, is guaranteed to hit enemies even if they move between aiming and casting, and has some chance of interrupting along the way. It's nothing you win hard fights with, but it definitely helps.

[gkathellar]

I found Mind Blades highly useful even until the end. It's a quick, cheap AoE spell that doesn't need elaborate positioning, is guaranteed to hit enemies even if they move between aiming and casting, and has some chance of interrupting along the way. It's nothing you win hard fights with, but it definitely helps.

 

This.

 

Mind Wave is that one power that you use if you've got nothing better to do.

 

Not that it's bad, it's just ... you've usually got something better to do.

[Feather Sigil]

Thanks for the input, everyone. =) Mind Blades it is.

[Infares]

Question: Do talents involving ranged attacks apply to mind blades?

[ErlKing]

Penetrating Shot does apply to Mind Blades without affecting casting time, also to soul lance and I suppose soul ignition. Marksman does not affect spells.

[Daemonjax]

I don't bother to pick up mind blades post-nerf since there's the level 1 spell which is similar enough.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Daemonjax

[Odd Hermit]

Tenuous Grasp and let the enemies beat things up for you. What Cipher is all about.

[ShadowTiger]

I could be wrong but it seems like the nerf to mind blades was negligable. It still seems useful to me, though it helps to debuff your enemies before using it. I've only had it whiff once.

Edited April 11, 2015 by ShadowTiger

[Varana]

Tenuous Grasp and let the enemies beat things up for you. What Cipher is all about.

I found any spell or ability that mind-controlled or confused enemies highly irritating.

- They run around my whole party, not neatly in front of my tanks any more.

- I can't use half of my spells on them while they're friendly.

- If I cast any buffs, I buff my enemies. Stupid.

- I have to manually order attacks and keep a close eye on everyone's timer for it not to run out while standing next to my wizard.

If only a few of the enemies are affected, it's useful.

If the majority is, I found it quite annoying.

[Rosveen]

I had similar impressions as Varana. If I was playing with a smaller team or especially solo, I think I'd find mind control useful, but I ended up using it very rarely in my game.

[gkathellar]

 

Tenuous Grasp and let the enemies beat things up for you. What Cipher is all about.

I found any spell or ability that mind-controlled or confused enemies highly irritating.

- They run around my whole party, not neatly in front of my tanks any more.

- I can't use half of my spells on them while they're friendly.

- If I cast any buffs, I buff my enemies. Stupid.

- I have to manually order attacks and keep a close eye on everyone's timer for it not to run out while standing next to my wizard.

If only a few of the enemies are affected, it's useful.

If the majority is, I found it quite annoying.

 

Very much agree. If I throw down a Ringleader, suddenly I find that I can't hit them with Mind Blades or Silent Scream. It's lame, and unless you're fighting a very large group, it makes Puppetmaster orders of magnitude more useful than Ringleader.

[Daemonjax]

Mind wave would be a lot more useful if it knocked the primary target prone.

[Voltron]

LOL! You can have pre-nerf Mind Blades by simple pasting one file: http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/38/?

 

I use it since I love mind blades and I didn't agree with needing to nerfing them. Just use this and stay with Mind Blades .

 

Cheers!

[Infares]

 

Tenuous Grasp and let the enemies beat things up for you. What Cipher is all about.

I found any spell or ability that mind-controlled or confused enemies highly irritating.

- They run around my whole party, not neatly in front of my tanks any more.

- I can't use half of my spells on them while they're friendly.

- If I cast any buffs, I buff my enemies. Stupid.

- I have to manually order attacks and keep a close eye on everyone's timer for it not to run out while standing next to my wizard.

If only a few of the enemies are affected, it's useful.

If the majority is, I found it quite annoying.

You can attack them with the attack hotkey and focus fire them down, or you can target them with friend/foe aoes by placing the inner circle just outside of your tanks per usual. It does make them a little funky, IMO they should just turn yellow instead of green (signifying that though they're no longer a threat to your group, they're still targetable to things that affect foes normally. 

 

This would also make mind controlled party members targetable by abilities that can cure them of their mind control properly because they'd not actually be considered flipped from friend to foe, but something else.