Druid vs. Wizard

[conanthelibrarian]

I'm currently playing with a druid but not Aloth in my first playthorugh, although I did use him a little at first.  

 

It seems that the WIZ is limited by 4 spells per level whereas the Druid is not.  

 

Why? 

 

Doesn't that make the WIZ a lot weaker tactically than a druid, who has his whole spell "book" open to him?

 

I'm missing something obviously, so I look to you smart people to correct my ignorance!   

 

Also, what weapons would I use with my WIZ and Priest?  Arbalests?  Wands?  I guess I don't have a real good handle on ranged weapons and their strengths/weaknesses.

 

​On a side note, looking to go PoTD for second playhtorugh.  Can I still use Aloth/durance/etc., or do I need to create companions that are min/maxed better?

Edited April 10, 2015 by conanthelibrarian

[MadDemiurg]

Generally no since there are a lot of crappy spells, and 4 per level are enough mostly. But it would make wizard worse if spells were better balanced. That's a bit weird for a supposedly most flexible spellcaster class.

[Cragnous]

I'm currently playing with a druid but not Aloth in my first playthorugh, although I did use him a little at first.  

 

It seems that the WIZ is limited by 4 spells per level whereas the Druid is not.  

 

Why? 

 

Doesn't that make the WIZ a lot weaker tactically than a druid, who has his whole spell "book" open to him?

 

I'm missing something obviously, so I look to you smart people to correct my ignorance!   

 

Also, what weapons would I use with my WIZ and Priest?  Arbalests?  Wands?  I guess I don't have a real good handle on ranged weapons and their strengths/weaknesses.

 

​On a side note, looking to go PoTD for second playhtorugh.  Can I still use Aloth/durance/etc., or do I need to create companions that are min/maxed better?

There are no reason why they made the Wiz get his spells like that, it does make him less flexible than the Druid and for no reason other than nostalgia.

 

Still the Wiz spells aren't the same as a Druid and both have their good and bad. Having only 4 spells to chose from isn't that bad because it's usually all you need.

 

For a range caster you'd either want an Arbalest or an Arquebus/Pistol I guess. The way DR works, it's better for them to have hard hitting weapons. The only exception would be a Wiz since he can have the Blast and Penetrating Blast talen, giving him an Implement with those talents is great.(Aloth comes with Blast)

 

People do solo runs of PoTD so anything is possible. Frankly my first play is on hard with the NPCs but when I'll get on my second play I'll defensively go full custom party for a PoTD run. It's possible with NPCs it's just harder than a fully customized team because the NPCs aren't min/max at all.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Cragnous

[Slapstick87]

Wizards might have fewer spells, but they are not supposed to fling them about with much abandon either. On my run Aloth does way less damage than my Cipher, but I wouldn't trade him away for anything. Because when it matters, he lays down so much crowd control that it's rediciulous. And no one except a wizard can do that to the same scale. I have a druid on the team as well. He's fine, I like him. But I don't find him as crucial for the big hard fights as I do Aloth.

[Epsilon Rose]

It's another hold over from D&D. In 3.5, at least, it made a tiny bit more sense, since wizard spells tended to be a bit better and clerics/druids still had to prepare spells per day (so it wasn't like they got to go into combat with everything available). It would be a bigger handicap if there were more good spells per level, but as it stands it's basically just a bit of a gold sink.

[thestigma]

Wizards in PoE I have to agree don't make a ton of sense in many ways...

 

In D&D they generally had the most powerful spells, at least in terms of damage, so careful preselection was a big part of a wizards strategy. In PoE the wizard doesn't really seem to have a better selection that druids - but they are MUCH more  restricted in what they have available at any given time. It also doesn't help that a lot of wizard spells are self-buffs which honestly make little sense and rarely get used (and are pretty weaksauce in any case). Wizards also don't have any sort of monopoly on DPS spells. Druids get at least as good spells in this sense. If anything they have better AoE damage selection. The only thing wizards might edge druids out in is some slightly better CC (but druids are no slouches in this category either).

 

All in all it is very hard to justify a wizard over a druid. A druid is much less squishy (heck shapechange at the start of the game wrecks anything so badly you don't even need spells - but you can still cast them while shapechanged and you can do so every battle. A druid is also very unrestricted. You get all the spells - cast whatever you want when you want. Wizards need not only to learn the spells, but then also need to make a small selection of them to actually use - or get penalized heavily for swapping grimories mid-battle.

 

It's probably too late to make sweeping changes at this point buy I think druids need to have some versatility in spells, but not as strong offensive ones as wizards - and wizards probably could stand to have a little more freedom. At least a few more grimoire-slots to work with. Maybe a way to upgrade grimoires (I don't think that exists, but I haven't played too far in the game yet either so I might be wrong on that point).

 

-Stigma

[sims796]

Wizard's Crowd Control is unmatched my anything that's not an OP Cipher (who should be left out of this and any convo). Dat Slicken spell. Dat sexy, secksay Slicken spell. That alone is worth quite a bit, and their cc only gets better.

 

With my Druid main and Aloth, clumps of enemies drops like flies...and then explode.

[Ichthyic]

I disagree that wizards have a worse spell selection that druids.

-they have more powerul damage spells at almost every level than a druid does
-the have more effective crowd control spells, again, at almost every level
-they have better and more varied single-target damage spells
-they have almost as many aoe spells as the druid, and most of those actually do MORE damage.

I don't think people are really paying attention.

example:  compare the spells at level 5 in their respective books.  wizards cone of cold spell (which is what they would call it if not for WoTC) does more damage than anythign the druid can dish out.

I often find myself spending more time figuring out what a good druid spell to cast in a fight would be vs the wizard, because he has so few good single target spells, and most of his aoe stuff also damages party members.

like druids in DnD though, his call lightning spell is bloody awesome though

 

[cavemandiary]

Coughcipher..cough

 And no one except a wizard can do that to the same scale.

[Odd Hermit]

There aren't many more than 4 good wizard spells per level honestly.

 

And I probably don't use more than 4 druid spells per level very frequently either.

 

I don't think the Grimoire limitation is a big deal at all.

 

 

Overall, Wizards have much stronger crowd control and access to higher accuracy on it(Eldritch Aim), while Druids are a bit easier to use AoE, are a bit more durable, and have party support/healing. I think that's the key differences covered.

 

I like having both in my parties but I think the Wizard is actually more of a staple for me than the Druid. 

[PIP-Clownboy]

Druid for the first 9-10 levels.. shapeshift is stronger early and Wizard most likely won't have access to many spells due to Grimoire tax. Wizards 10+, as their t6 spells feel stronger, per encounters solve the quality of life issues and the lack of proper shapeshift scaling put them ahead.

 

I disagree that wizards have a worse spell selection that druids.

-they have more powerul damage spells at almost every level than a druid does
-the have more effective crowd control spells, again, at almost every level
-they have better and more varied single-target damage spells
-they have almost as many aoe spells as the druid, and most of those actually do MORE damage.

I don't think people are really paying attention.

example:  compare the spells at level 5 in their respective books.  wizards cone of cold spell (which is what they would call it if not for WoTC) does more damage than anythign the druid can dish out.

I often find myself spending more time figuring out what a good druid spell to cast in a fight would be vs the wizard, because he has so few good single target spells, and most of his aoe stuff also damages party members.

like druids in DnD though, his call lightning spell is bloody awesome though

 

 

I love Blast of Frost but Firebug does pretty crazy damage while being much easier to land.  Early game Blizzard is quite useful and Hailstorm has massive aoe and range.

[Ichthyic]

firebug.. good point.  I forgot how much damage that one does, especially if you have a constant influx of enemies... it just keeps going...