Attempt at creating a unique party for Trials of Iron (Cheese welcome!)

[Slapstick87]

So I've been playing with this party: Tanks: Edér/Pallegina, DPS: Me(Ranged Cipher)/Aloth/Hiravias, Support: Durance on my story playthrough. Hard has been tough at times, but only because my DPS gets massacred the instant I get swarmed or AOE'd down (I f*'in hate shades and fampyrs). The tanks never ever die, they're not the problem. Gearing up for a Trials of Iron run (possibly even PotD. That would be cool), I want and need to do something different.

 

Thought nr. 1: I dislike the tanks because they never *do* anything. They just stand there, don't die, and tie up enemies. I know that's what they're supposed to do, but it feels a bit boring that nothing ever happens around the tanks *at all*. Can't they be used for dmg as well?

Thought nr. 2: I need off-tanks. I'm also a fan of using classes creatively.

Thought nr. 3: I really need to stop playing PoE 24/7

 

So I'm considering running with 4 melee semi-tank, semi-dps characters, and 2 rear support. Or maybe 3 + 3...

P.S. I don't really fancy Chanters or Rangers much.

 

Idea:

 

Front Wall

Cipher Fire Godlike, Sanguine Armor. Gaun's Share + whatever I find, probably mace.

Barbarian Fire Godlike. Medium Armor. Dual Wield Oidrecht and Azureith's Stiletto. I'll call him cheesemaster and abuse OSA :D

Monk (probably moon godlike) of some sort - never played, but heard good things at the forum - suggestions welcome!

Druid - Coastal Amaua? - Best available armor, shield, 1H weapon.

 

Rear Guard

Orlan Ranged Rogue - Probably Persistance or Cloudpiercer. Not sure about Hunting- or Warbow

Priest (of Wael for Rod/Quarterstaff)- because duh'

 

 

Backup Idea:

 

Front Wall:

Cipher Fire/Moon godlike tank

Rogue retaliation/drain tank

Monk

 

Rear Guard:

Barbarian glasscannon with pike

Druid

Wizard

 

------

 

So any comments on my ideas? I'm also wondering a) How do I build/equip a monk? b) Do I really *need* unkillable tanks for PotD? c) Anyone tried running without a healer successfully?

Edited April 10, 2015 by Slapstick87

[Rostere]

What about: Two Dwarf fighters in front, two Aumaua Rogues with pikes behind them, and two Death Godlike Wizards casting Slicken at the back?

[Ceranai]

if you want tanks that are more active roll a couple of moonlike monks for your front line. Give them the heaviest armour you can and spam torents reach (helps if you hotkey it) at level 5 my moonlike monk (solo run) has about 20-30 wounds per battle before he dies, and thats without any external healing

 

id then get a couple of barbs with reach weaponds to gve you some constant aoe dps in your second row and a druid and a priest in your last row for heals, buffs and aoe spells

[Slapstick87]

What about: Two Dwarf fighters in front, two Aumaua Rogues with pikes behind them, and two Death Godlike Wizards casting Slicken at the back?

I was trying to avoid duplicate classes actually, but yeah - slicken... good point!

[gkathellar]

If you're going for cheese, get an Island Aumaua rogue to juggle 3-4 guns. Always fun to see boom-splat-boom-splat-boom-splat.

[Ceranai]

PS if you want cheese I maintain there is nothing more cheesy than 5 chanters 1 priest. Stun lock with 5 phantoms, create a wall of wurms that will block anything from reaching you, perma charm people with enough wisps (each gets one charm, 2x5=10 charms per 16 seconds) 10 ogres=your enemy will never stand up 5 drakes=anything in the aoe dies, this isnt even considering the chants you can run, with 5 chanters you can run dedicated chants per chanter, one fear chanter, one buff chanter, one speed chanter (your entire group is now able to kite almost anything) one ranged speed chanter etc etc. 

[MadDemiurg]

PS if you want cheese I maintain there is nothing more cheesy than 5 chanters 1 priest. Stun lock with 5 phantoms, create a wall of wurms that will block anything from reaching you, perma charm people with enough wisps (each gets one charm, 2x5=10 charms per 16 seconds) 10 ogres=your enemy will never stand up 5 drakes=anything in the aoe dies, this isnt even considering the chants you can run, with 5 chanters you can run dedicated chants per chanter, one fear chanter, one buff chanter, one speed chanter (your entire group is now able to kite almost anything) one ranged speed chanter etc etc. 

Yeah, this is one of the most OP combos likely. Can do some church choir RP as well :D.

Edited April 10, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Ceranai]

 

PS if you want cheese I maintain there is nothing more cheesy than 5 chanters 1 priest. Stun lock with 5 phantoms, create a wall of wurms that will block anything from reaching you, perma charm people with enough wisps (each gets one charm, 2x5=10 charms per 16 seconds) 10 ogres=your enemy will never stand up 5 drakes=anything in the aoe dies, this isnt even considering the chants you can run, with 5 chanters you can run dedicated chants per chanter, one fear chanter, one buff chanter, one speed chanter (your entire group is now able to kite almost anything) one ranged speed chanter etc etc. 

Yeah, this is one of the most OP combos likely. Can do some church choir RP as well :D.

 

yea, im still stuck on the forge knights tbh. so much aoe, cc, and regen....

 

its so stupid how the ai gets unlimited spells, i mean i atm in my practice run im getting such varibale results depending on how much they spam their heals

Edited April 10, 2015 by Ceranai

[KDubya]

This is what I am planning on doing.

 

Have a frontline of two dwarf fighter twins - max might, per, and res, dump int to 3, balance rest between con and dex as you see fit. Even a 7 con on a fighter will still get you enough endurance after a few level ups, early on is when it is noticeable. Go for two handed weapons either both adventurer for estoc or have one go soldier for pikes/great swords/ arquebus. With wary defender modal these guys will tank well enough while auto-hitting for 30-40 with each being able to engage 4 guys. You could re-spec Eder into one if you want the dialogue but not the stats.

 

Have one priest for the buffs and heals. Maybe magran for the sword and arquebus. Maybe even just grab Durance and re-spec him to drop the bad talent. With heavy armor and a sword and shield to switch he can grab any that get past the dwarf twins.

 

Pick a melee off tank that can hit hard but will need attention to control - monk would work spamming torments, or barb with pike, or melee rogue. Depending on how micro intensive your two casters are, a monk might be too much to control while a barb with a pike behind the twins would be fairly safe and fire and forget. A barb with the yell could help keep the front frightened for the malus to accuracy to help keep the pressure off the two hander twins. A monk would have to run around the front line to engage on the flanks or go deep to get into the enemy rear.

 

With the last two grab whatever caster type you want. Cipher, wizard, druid whatever makes you happy. You could even add in a ranger with the lion pet to roar for the -10 acc from the fear to help out the frontline. Using Aldoth primarily for CC would work or just re-spec him with mod.

 

With this team using all the per encounter abilities should be able to roll over most groups while holding back the big spells for the challenging encounters, including a cipher would go along way in helping the group to not have to rest.

 

Not sure if it would be better to use the IE mod to re-spec the companions in order to have them be a permanent part of the team or just leave them as is and cycle through one at a time?

[Exoduss]

I saw you complain about tanks doing nothing then make a pally/chanter tank well they do nothing but also got passive buffs that does alot !

[Ceranai]

I saw you complain about tanks doing nothing then make a pally/chanter tank well they do nothing but also got passive buffs that does alot !

I always go chanter but that may be coz my first run with a pally left me utterly underwhelmed with them, like fair enough he tanked well but he did nothingelse lol

[Noctaem]

I don't agree that tanks sit there and do nothing.  I think that's more of a symptom of your playstyle rather than an indication that tanks aren't dynamic.

 

-Fighters are the best tanks.

-Paladins are the best kill stealing class which actually grants varied bonuses when they kill something + has auras to boost crit, accuracy for everyone.  This is your off-tank with a high damage weapon (with reach preferably) like a pike.  Micro the character to land last hits in order to sustain everyone in the party.  They also get a /encounter rez which is incredibly useful at high difficulties.

-Gun chanter for ranged DPS + back line support (via the gun chant).  Summons to help the front line when required/aoe paralyze/etc..

-Gun/Arbalest Cipher is pretty much required.

-Gun(?) priest in order to continue the established theme.  You could do something different, but you want the least amount of people in melee as possible in order to control incoming damage.  You also want the most amount of people possible to benefit from the chanter.

-Arbalest/bow/gun Rogue for ranged DPS.  It's easy enough to generate sneak attack at range and the various disables available will also help.

 

Look here for help creating your characters.  There's some really good advice on each class with multiple builds presented.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGSnd6gOXMgFuKvNXXFXZsw

[Noctaem]

 

I saw you complain about tanks doing nothing then make a pally/chanter tank well they do nothing but also got passive buffs that does alot !

I always go chanter but that may be coz my first run with a pally left me utterly underwhelmed with them, like fair enough he tanked well but he did nothingelse lol

 

 

Again, this is just about playstyle.  Considering they possibly get a /encounter rez, auras, heals, damage burst, etc..  your statement doesn't make sense.

 

However I will say that Paladins are also not designed to be tanks in the sense that the game requires them to be.  The game is about extremes, if you want a tank, you have to completely invest in being one, meaning that the Paladins abilities are most likely not properly utilized.  The Paladin is a kill stealing class.  It's designed to last hit mobs brought low by allies which then grants the party bonuses, usually in the form of endurance.  If you make a paladin tank, you will almost NEVER last hit anything and you aren't going to be taking the talents that grant the bonuses in the first place.  So all you're doing is being a sub-par fighter with some support.  Better to have a real fighter who actually has the talents to make an amazing tank if that's what you're trying to achieve.

 

This is of course, discounting everything but min/max.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Noctaem

[cavemandiary]

if you want tanks that are more active roll a couple of moonlike monks for your front line. Give them the heaviest armour you can and spam torents reach (helps if you hotkey it) at level 5 my moonlike monk (solo run) has about 20-30 wounds per battle before he dies, and thats without any external healing

 

id then get a couple of barbs with reach weaponds to gve you some constant aoe dps in your second row and a druid and a priest in your last row for heals, buffs and aoe spells

I was about to say this. Monks make above-average tanks, but the amount of damage they can do with minimal offensive investment is pretty balls. They do however require a ton of micro.

[cavemandiary]

 

 

I saw you complain about tanks doing nothing then make a pally/chanter tank well they do nothing but also got passive buffs that does alot !

I always go chanter but that may be coz my first run with a pally left me utterly underwhelmed with them, like fair enough he tanked well but he did nothingelse lol

 

 

Again, this is just about playstyle.  Considering they possibly get a /encounter rez, auras, heals, damage burst, etc..  your statement doesn't make sense.

 

However I will say that Paladins are also not designed to be tanks in the sense that the game requires them to be.  The game is about extremes, if you want a tank, you have to completely invest in being one, meaning that the Paladins abilities are most likely not properly utilized.  The Paladin is a kill stealing class.  It's designed to last hit mobs brought low by allies which then grants the party bonuses, usually in the form of endurance.  If you make a paladin tank, you will almost NEVER last hit anything and you aren't going to be taking the talents that grant the bonuses in the first place.  So all you're doing is being a sub-par fighter with some support.  Better to have a real fighter who actually has the talents to make an amazing tank if that's what you're trying to achieve.

 

This is of course, discounting everything but min/max.

 

Well I´ve seen a lot of discussion about paladins making subpar tanks compared to the fighter, and while it is true that pound-for-pound, the fighter wins, the utility brought by the paladin is pretty valuable.

Personally I used my paladin as a supportive tank with zero damage, but who had a teamwide aura, clutch heal, revive and 2 buffs for my main DPS (deflection and attackspeed).

While I do think the fighter is the better tank, he does nothing for the team to help them kill faster.

[Noctaem]

 

 

 

I saw you complain about tanks doing nothing then make a pally/chanter tank well they do nothing but also got passive buffs that does alot !

I always go chanter but that may be coz my first run with a pally left me utterly underwhelmed with them, like fair enough he tanked well but he did nothingelse lol

 

 

Again, this is just about playstyle.  Considering they possibly get a /encounter rez, auras, heals, damage burst, etc..  your statement doesn't make sense.

 

However I will say that Paladins are also not designed to be tanks in the sense that the game requires them to be.  The game is about extremes, if you want a tank, you have to completely invest in being one, meaning that the Paladins abilities are most likely not properly utilized.  The Paladin is a kill stealing class.  It's designed to last hit mobs brought low by allies which then grants the party bonuses, usually in the form of endurance.  If you make a paladin tank, you will almost NEVER last hit anything and you aren't going to be taking the talents that grant the bonuses in the first place.  So all you're doing is being a sub-par fighter with some support.  Better to have a real fighter who actually has the talents to make an amazing tank if that's what you're trying to achieve.

 

This is of course, discounting everything but min/max.

 

Well I´ve seen a lot of discussion about paladins making subpar tanks compared to the fighter, and while it is true that pound-for-pound, the fighter wins, the utility brought by the paladin is pretty valuable.

Personally I used my paladin as a supportive tank with zero damage, but who had a teamwide aura, clutch heal, revive and 2 buffs for my main DPS (deflection and attackspeed).

While I do think the fighter is the better tank, he does nothing for the team to help them kill faster.

 

 

If you're investing into the talent to heal a modest amount of endurance, you're not taking a feat to help you tank more effectively.  If you take the talents that help you do so first, by the time you take the heal it's basically useless because it doesn't heal enough.  Aura is also a talent.  What you're describing is good for easy-normal mode play.  Higher difficulty play requires investment into the proper talents to actually make a tank.  You cannot call yourself a tank if you've invested half or more of your talents into either support or DPS options.  You're not tanking anything at that point.

 

If you're playing on trials of iron you cannot waste a talent for that heal on a Paladin tank.  It's exactly that, a total waste.  The same can be said of the DPS talents you're describing.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Noctaem