People have been complaining about wizards being squishy but

[MaxDamage]

They arent at all :D

 

This is a level 5 wizard with the talents Veil, improved Veil. 

 

It has only a basic large shield and a hatchet. it has no shield + sword style perk. it has no bonus deflection perk. Yet. It has only +5 deflection ring equipped. it is only level 5.

 

The 3rd level spell improves your deflection quite a bit and hopefully you went for min might min con build. max Resolve, perception and intellect. The rest goes into dex. Your level 2 spell improves your hp by like 2 times.

 

Thats ~130 deflection and ~170 against disengagement. Godmode on :D disregard game rules there is no engagement forget it ).

 

Feels like BG 2 type mage "weapon ineffective".

 

Maybe needs a hefty nerf.

[MaxDamage]

I forgot the link http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/29612972883499878/E83E8A4003F08F758A00EC21DCC6D6A7A777295D/

[Incendax]

It's certainly nice deflection, but then they eat a spell and go down like a lump.
Wizards CAN burn a lot of resources to get impressive deflection, but they are still wizards when the timer runs out.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Incendax

[MaxDamage]

This only needs lvl 2 HP spell and lvl 3 deflection spell, veil is cast instantaneously. You dont even need veil if you get your deflection this high. Veil just makes it ridic.

[Enoch]

That's nice, sure, but I don't see how achieving a near-untouchable Wizard is worth the opportunity cost of 2 talents, 2 per-day spells, the casting time necessary to deploy them in combat, and whatever good offensive spells they're displacing from your Grimoire. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by Enoch

[MaxDamage]

That's nice, sure, but I don't see how achieving a near-untouchable Wizard is worth the opportunity cost of 2 talents, 2 per-day spells, the casting time necessary to deploy them in combat, and whatever good offensive spells they're displacing from your Grimoire. 

You only need to cast the hp buff really. 

 

Stay behind etc. if someone bothers you in melee cast lvl 3 deflection buff, activate veil and run around freely disregarding game rules, engagement zones etc. Its only lvl 2 and lvl 3 spells. There s also a nice lvl 1 haste spell.

 

Completely wizard specific type of tactic. Noone else is allowed that i think. BG2 'weapon ineffective'

Edited April 8, 2015 by MaxDamage

[Parsong]

10 second duration.

2 per rest.

 

The other two spells end after being hit once. The ones that stays on for 60 seconds is per rest and T3+

 

Nope. Tried it. I'd rather just put CC spells in all those slots/uses and nullify all enemies. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by Parsong

[MaxDamage]

10 second duration.

2 per rest.

 

The other spells disspiate after being hit once. The one that stays on for 60 seconds is per rest.

 

Nope. Tried it. I'd rather just put damage/cc spells in all those slots and per-uses.

15 seconds for me, then as i ve already said you dont rly need it with the deflection you get and the bonus disengagement +20/+40. Veil just makes it Godmode on.

[MadDemiurg]

Higher level deflection buffs (levels 3 and 5) work for the whole duration and veil is 15 seconds with high int. This can be useful in harder fights to get into the fray to cast some of the spells that require trickier positioning or for the "oh **** moments". You actually do not need that all that often, 2/rest seems fine.

[Parsong]

Yeah but it gimps your character actual purpose so much and is so limited in uses that I do not see a need for a "hefty nerf".  Wizard already got one of those last patch, and now is just barely better than the Lore skill.

[MadDemiurg]

How does it gimp you? I suppose 2 talents are a sizable investment but you don't have many good talents to begin with.But I don't see a need for a nerf here either, it's situaltionally quite useful but not broken in any way. And wiz is still a top tier class in my book, the nerfs weren't as bad as people make it out plus a lot of spells got their range buffed which is nice.

[gkathellar]

@MadDemiurg / Parsong - I feel like you two are arguing two different points. MD, I think you're asserting that Wizards can make themselves reasonably durable for a short period if necessary, aye? And Parsong, you seem to be asserting that this durability is not something to be relied on for actually tanking hits.

 

These views are not incompatible, and as both of you agree, it's situational enough that it's hardly deserving of a nerf.

 

The draw of this is, wizards have a cool (but short-lived) durability trick. The OP overstates the point a little, but it has its uses.

[MaxDamage]

Im just saying wizards are imbalanced in the way they are allowed levels of durability way way above everyone else bar the fighter with improved defender. But wizards get the + disengagement buffs as well so they pretty much disregard engagement system. Also, high dex wizard (which you should do) makes the buffs you may want very quick And you are literally losing on nothing because you compensate for the lack of damage with casting speed when minimizing might and getting high-ish dex. You are also a debuff machinegun. Something might has absolutely no effect on. At later leves you get copious amounts of spells and you need to cast them all -> raise dex again. 

 

I would ve understood if wizards got low hp instead but they dont because there is a +50 hp spell at level 2. and you re doubling your hp with 3 con.

 

In my game the priests under attack are rooted into place because disengagement etc. Not the wizard which is just through the roof leeroy jenkins style.

 

And there s no gimp whatsoever. The best perks are deflection stacking one for a caster anyway. Those remove your only vulnerability.

Edited April 8, 2015 by MaxDamage

[gkathellar]

Yeah, they get to be durable for a whole 15 seconds, after casting two buffing spells. How ... awful?

 

Not the wizard which is just through the roof leeroy jenkins style.

 

... have you actually watched that video? Because what you're saying doesn't means what you think it means.

[Infares]

10 second duration.

2 per rest.

 

The other two spells end after being hit once. The ones that stays on for 60 seconds is per rest and T3+

 

Nope. Tried it. I'd rather just put CC spells in all those slots/uses and nullify all enemies. 

Exactly. An enemy that's laying on the ground is the equivalent of 9999 deflection against that enemy.

[knownastherat]

Question is, can he do damage, MaxDamage?

 

Im just saying wizards are imbalanced in the way they are allowed levels of durability way way above everyone else bar the fighter with improved defender. But wizards get the + disengagement buffs as well so they pretty much disregard engagement system. Also, high dex wizard (which you should do) makes the buffs you may want very quick And you are literally losing on nothing because you compensate for the lack of damage with casting speed when minimizing might and getting high-ish dex. You are also a debuff machinegun. Something might has absolutely no effect on. At later leves you get copious amounts of spells and you need to cast them all -> raise dex again. 

 

I would ve understood if wizards got low hp instead but they dont because there is a +50 hp spell at level 2. and you re doubling your hp with 3 con.

 

In my game the priests under attack are rooted into place because disengagement etc. Not the wizard which is just through the roof leeroy jenkins style.

 

And there s no gimp whatsoever. The best perks are deflection stacking one for a caster anyway. Those remove your only vulnerability.

 

There is no gimp? What kind of damage you do with this Wizard? I do not care how you build your characters or play the game, but claiming that casting speed somehow offsets low damage seems like unsupported and even false claim.  I played Cipher with 2 Mig and 3 Con and while it was fun for me and had purpose I would gladly admit it was gimp.

[PIP-Clownboy]

Yeah, they get to be durable for a whole 15 seconds, after casting two buffing spells. How ... awful?

 

Not the wizard which is just through the roof leeroy jenkins style.

 

... have you actually watched that video? Because what you're saying doesn't means what you think it means.

 

Battles in POE do not last that long. 15 seconds a long time to have over 100 deflection. 

[Parsong]

Exactly, click all those defense buffs and the battle is already over lol.  It's like a wasted spot in the party.

[PIP-Clownboy]

Exactly, click all those defense buffs and the battle is already over lol.  It's like a wasted spot in the party.

 

Arcane Veil is nearly instant. Between Dimension Shift, Safeguard, Veil, Bulwark Wizard is pretty untouchable if you're paying attention. 

 

As for damage.. 200+ crits on Blast of Cold. Gimped, I think not. 

[MaxDamage]

Question is, can he do damage, MaxDamage?

 

Im just saying wizards are imbalanced in the way they are allowed levels of durability way way above everyone else bar the fighter with improved defender. But wizards get the + disengagement buffs as well so they pretty much disregard engagement system. Also, high dex wizard (which you should do) makes the buffs you may want very quick And you are literally losing on nothing because you compensate for the lack of damage with casting speed when minimizing might and getting high-ish dex. You are also a debuff machinegun. Something might has absolutely no effect on. At later leves you get copious amounts of spells and you need to cast them all -> raise dex again. 

 

I would ve understood if wizards got low hp instead but they dont because there is a +50 hp spell at level 2. and you re doubling your hp with 3 con.

 

In my game the priests under attack are rooted into place because disengagement etc. Not the wizard which is just through the roof leeroy jenkins style.

 

And there s no gimp whatsoever. The best perks are deflection stacking one for a caster anyway. Those remove your only vulnerability.

 

There is no gimp? What kind of damage you do with this Wizard? I do not care how you build your characters or play the game, but claiming that casting speed somehow offsets low damage seems like unsupported and even false claim.  I played Cipher with 2 Mig and 3 Con and while it was fun for me and had purpose I would gladly admit it was gimp.

As much as it gets without 'gimping' yourself having suboptimal deflection.

[Parsong]

I'm talking about the OP's build. Min might and defense spell stacking.   Waste of a party spot.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Parsong

[PIP-Clownboy]

I'm talking about the OP's build. Min might and defense spell stacking.   Waste of a party spot.

 

Really depends how he uses it and what the rest of the party looks like. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by PIP-Clownboy

[MaxDamage]

I'm talking about the OP's build. Min might and defense spell stacking.   Waste of a party spot.

Because you have no idea what you re talking about.

 

its more like the only party member you dont need to babysit, completely autonomous.

Edited April 8, 2015 by MaxDamage

[Infares]

 

I'm talking about the OP's build. Min might and defense spell stacking.   Waste of a party spot.

Because you have no idea what you re talking about.

 

its more like the only party member you dont need to babysit, completely autonomous.

 

As long as you're cool with sleeping off your Inn bonuses every five minutes.