Let's talk class balance....

[Epsilon Rose]

Rangers dont need much to fix them.. the problem is they dont feel like masters of range... the rogue does...

How to fix Rangers?

 

My idea

Default passive ability

Measured Placement

Affinity and experiance with ranged weapons gives Rangers an almost supernatural ability to get the best out of a ranged weapon, and to do so from what appear to be the worst possible s h o t s.

PS-why is the forums censoring the word S h o t s.

 

Effect

When a ranged weapon rolls lowest possible damage it automaticly becomes a Max roll for the ranger.

 

Effects?

Pistol 22-30

Every other class has a 1/9 chance of rolling 30 damage.

Ranger has a 2/9 chance of rolling 30 damage.

This would be nice, but I'd also like to seem them pick up mechanics as a bonus. Right now, I find the ranger NPC competing with my rogue adventurer for the ranged DPS slot, but the rogue always wins because I can use her to open things and spot traps (or I will be able to once the bug gets fixed).

 

About the chanter, isn't it weird that they would be one of the worst classes if not for their summons? The latest patch having crippled their most interesting buffs actually made me wonder if people would even use one if they nerfed his summons too.

You could stick them in your party as passive support for other classes that actually do things or to help interupt enemies.

[Odd Hermit]

All the casters are strongest damage builds because they also bring strong buffs and control.

 

Paladin(PC for Faith and Conviction) or Fighter make the best tanks.

 

Ciphers and Chanters are strong for longevity and on easier encounters.

 

Rogue is the best for cheesing it solo or for preventing full party wipes with shadowing beyond.

 

 

Monk, Barbarian, Ranger have the least purpose.

[Longknife]

Woah, why have people been throwing Monk under the bus?

 

Recently started a monk, beforehand my only experience being having one as a squadmate for a very brief amount of time, and Monk might be the most broken class in the game.

 

It's like yknow how Rogue will hit harder so long as an enemy has an affliction? Monk can hit harder on command so long as it has wounds. As long as you stick Monk in the front and let it get hit in the face, you're gonna have more than enough wounds to SPAAAAAAM some hard hitting attacks and single-handedly wreck **** up.

 

I can see how some might consider it weak because here's the thing: Monk needs constant attention. It's not like it's at risk of dying at any given moment, but rather with Monk you're trying to kill the enemy before it kills you. The wound skills provide the damage to accomplish that (easily) but if you're not spamming them, then you're just a squisher fighter. In that sense, Monk will have you pausing more frequently than any class (feels like very half second the monk can attack), but the rewards for doing so are more than worth it.

[Dongom]

Today on my second PoTD play-through, I learned having another Cipher with a couple of paralysis scrolls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wizard.

 

 

By far.  Like, it's not remotely on the same playing-field.  Oh beta testers, were ya'll drunk ?

 

 

(Was using a build similiar to this https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/75905-ultimate-build-highest-dps-and-tankines-in-1-char/ , )

Edited April 7, 2015 by Dongom

[Ganrich]

Yeah, I will say it again. Monk is a sleeper class. Everyone thinks they are underpowered, but they aren't. They do great damage.

[Eos]

This whole God/Trash tier stuff seems a bit vague, especially when given to classes as a whole and with disregard to the different roles they can fulfill. I'd rather categorize a class' usefullness by its abiltiy to fulfill a certain role the best. Based on a playthrough on hard difficulty.

 

Best at something that is important

Fighter - Tanking

Rogue - Single Target DPS

Priest - Healing

Wizard - Spammable Disable

 

Okay

Druid - I guess he has easy-to-use AoE damage, but the tougher fights usually aren't tough because you lack AoE damage

Chanter - worse Single Target DD than Rogue, worse AoE DD than any of the Casters, yet somewhat usefull (i.e. to buff your Rogues)

 

Poor Man's Stand-In

Paladin - worse Support than any of the casters/hybrids, worse DD than Rogue, worse Tank than Fighter

Ranger - worse Single Target DD than Rogue, though handy pet for off-tank duty and the Stunning Shot talent is ridiculous

Barbarian - worse Single Target DD than Rogue, reliant on being in melee range which is just a bad idea on harder difficulties

 

Bad in Theory yet Amazing in Practice?

Monk - Haven't played one and getting damaged to function (on top of being a melee DD) seems counterintuitive for harder difficulties, but maybe his abilities are worth the tradeoff

Cypher - haven't played with these either, from what I've read they seem to trivialize trash mobs, but then who cares about trash mobs.. their spell list reads like a Wizard/Priest that has an internal cooldown, so I'd rather have a full-fledged caster who can chain-cast stuff than a hybrid who needs a breathing pause after two rounds

 

Are Cyphers really viable on PotD during some of the harder/longer encounters?

[crunchynut]

Oh man do not underestimate the monk. I thought the very same thing when I started playing. I can't vouch for any difficulty past normal as this is my first play-through in PoE and hence my first character. I chose the monk because the playstyle is very odd compared to every other class. Yes, could have been a fighter or a wizard or a rogue - basically more generic roles in an rpg, but I chose a monk because they looks so far out of a box compared to a monk in any other game.

 

Thought it kinda sucked early on with the whole wounds system, but as i leveled-up I realise the power behind wound stacking spam. It's tremendous! Damage is utterly insane! I've only just reached defiance bay (did some bounties along the way) and these are my stats comparing my monk to the 2nd highest damage in my group.

 

[Dongom]

Top 

Cipher

Barbarian (Bugged?)

 

High

Druid

Chanter

 

Medium

Wizard

Rogue

Fighter

Priest

 

 

Low

Paladin

Ranger

Monk

 

 

None of this includes solo item/stealth cheesing. Purely PoTD normal play related.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Dongom

[Eos]

Top 

Cipher

Barbarian (Bugged?)

 

High

Druid

Chanter

 

Medium

Fighter

Wizard

Priest

Rogue

 

Low

Paladin

Ranger

Monk

 

 

None of this includes solo item/stealth cheesing. Purely PoTD normal play related.

 

Aren't Cypher spells redundant with Wiz/Priest, except that they have a longer reload timer? And why Barbarian? Do you rely on melee DPS?

[Luj1]

In what way is Barbarian bugged that'll put it next to the OP king Cipher?

[Dongom]

Max str/con/dt, put on a piece of retaliation gear, take one stands alone, and use a drain weapon. Then run into a group of mobs and see what happens

 

Might not be as OP as cipher, which is why I put him under him.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Dongom

[MadDemiurg]

One stands alone is bugged to add +20 flat damage. It doesn't work in all fights but when it does it's quite devastating as you might imagine. Still it doesn't mean auto win and is useless in spellcaster fights. It probably will be fixed soon too.

 

Wiz isn't worse than druid, just takes a bit longer to take off. Some wiz spells are amazing. Both are top tier imo as they can do almost anything. They're more useful than cipher tbh with exception of very early levels or endgame.

Edited April 8, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Dongom]

I find Druid or Cipher with a few cc scrolls > Wizard. So much more dmg.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Dongom

[MadDemiurg]

CC is not the only thing wiz does well. Summon minor blights and your double that bombards with electricity and watch things melt. Some of the better damage druid spells have FF too.

 

Ultimate sniper combo would probably be eldrich aim  + minor blights + haste (whatever it's called)  + martial prowess. Aoe attacks at +55 acc and 174% attack speed are kinda fun. Needs some time to buff up tough (but most spells are fast)

Edited April 8, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Dongom]

Yeah my barb off-tank and druid kinda kill everything before my Wizard usually was able to put the two eye-icon buffs on himself, which is when I just replaced him lol.

[Odd Hermit]

 

Bad in Theory yet Amazing in Practice?

Monk - Haven't played one and getting damaged to function (on top of being a melee DD) seems counterintuitive for harder difficulties, but maybe his abilities are worth the tradeoff

Cypher - haven't played with these either, from what I've read they seem to trivialize trash mobs, but then who cares about trash mobs.. their spell list reads like a Wizard/Priest that has an internal cooldown, so I'd rather have a full-fledged caster who can chain-cast stuff than a hybrid who needs a breathing pause after two rounds

 

Are Cyphers really viable on PotD during some of the harder/longer encounters?

 

Cipher have some very potent disables, where if you get it off successfully it can feel like you've basically won already. Wizard is the same. However, Wizard who can't spam the most devastating spell at a highly resistant target because they can run out even on single fights. A Cipher can just keep going for that payoff as long as they can deal some weapon damage. Basically I view Cipher as a "chromatic orb" class for tough fights, at least on PotD. You might miss a lot sometimes but if/when it works it's devastating. One debuff opens up their weaknesses and then all your other classes can go to town stacking them on.

[poison_us]

I'm running a cloth, unarmed Monk on normal right now. He deals the most damage of my party, since he attacks insanely quick (especially with lightning strike). One-on-one, he easily outclasses everything I've encountered so far, with the exception of the ogre tribe (one hit, he's at 40% health, though they usually don't get the second off). I made him a Fire Godlike as well, so he's even more dangerous on lower health, which doesn't take him long to get to. Specced mostly into Constitution, Might, and Dex, with some Int for Torment's Reach. All in all, he's not a bad first build, albeit a tad squishy. To be honest, to get any feel for a monk's stats, you must have him in battle and check his stats then, when Transcendent Suffering is active.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

CC is not the only thing wiz does well. Summon minor blights and your double that bombards with electricity and watch things melt. Some of the better damage druid spells have FF too.

 

Ultimate sniper combo would probably be eldrich aim  + minor blights + haste (whatever it's called)  + martial prowess. Aoe attacks at +55 acc and 174% attack speed are kinda fun. Needs some time to buff up tough (but most spells are fast)

 

I don't enjoy having to cast four spells in order to do something decently. Even in clothing and maximum dexterity, it's going to be a challenge to get off more than one or two attacks before at least one of those spells expires. Even if one could manage to do all of that, the battle would probably have already ended, or at least decided by the time it comes to fruition. Practicality matters.

[Voss]

About the chanter, isn't it weird that they would be one of the worst classes if not for their summons? The latest patch having crippled their most interesting buffs actually made me wonder if people would even use one if they nerfed his summons too.

I don't use them now.  They're useless.  Combat is over far before they get 3 dings to summon crappy things.  

 

 

@Eos- ciphers trivialize all enemies, not just the trash.  

[Sancus]

After acquiring the Druid companion I'm absolutely horrified at just how bad Wizard spells are in comparison. Like, all of spell level 2 on Wizard is borderline worthless. With the exception of Fan of Flames(and even then, Winter Wind is pretty close...) Druids just deal more damage than Wizards do at greater range and with better utility. Blizzard, a level 2 Druid spell deals 30-50 damage. Fireball deals 25-35. Fireball is a spell level higher, has less range, and has no debuff attached to it. W T F?

 

Druids also for some reason have significantly more range, which means they can cast much more safely on higher difficulties. And they have Endurance restore and other fairly decent defensive spells.

 

I'm seriously just at a loss to comprehend how anyone thought these spell lists were balanced. Especially the level 2 and 3 Wizard offensive spells. They're just...embarrassingly BAD.

[Longknife]

By far.  Like, it's not remotely on the same playing-field.  Oh beta testers, were ya'll drunk ?

 

A lot of the stuff people point out actually came up in the beta feedback. Some of it just wasn't changed.

[Parsong]

Yeah barb has shot up because of that "bug".  

[Longknife]

Yeah barb has shot up because of that "bug".  

 

What's the bug?

[Parsong]

One Stands Alone adds +20dmg to all melee attacks.  This includes any speed weapon, retaliation (OP), and fire-god aura.  And then carnage works with them all too......And then Draining works with all of that damage.

 

Maybe its bugged or maybe they wanted to give Cipher and Chanter's T3 Songs competition

Edited April 8, 2015 by Parsong

[Climhazzard]

One Stands Alone adds +20dmg to all melee attacks.  This includes any speed weapon, retaliation (OP), and fire-god aura.  And then carnage works with them all too......And then Draining works with all of that damage.

 

Maybe its bugged or maybe they wanted to give Cipher and Chanter's T3 Songs competition

 

If that's not bugged then its really unbalanced, lol.