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But what exactly was the Paladin providing in that video?  

 

Well he rezzed the mage half way through the fight. The way pally rez works though it ended up killing him again at the end of the fight.  :skull:  :brows:

Exoduss, on 14 Apr 2015 - 11:11 AM, said: 

 

also secret about hardmode with 6 man party is :  its a faceroll most of the fights you will Auto Attack mobs while lighting your spliff

 

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But what exactly was the Paladin providing in that video?  

 

Well he rezzed the mage half way through the fight. The way pally rez works though it ended up killing him again at the end of the fight.  :skull:  :brows:

 

 

That was the priest that died, though I suppose its also a mage that buffs and heals.

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That was the priest that died, though I suppose its also a mage that buffs and heals.

 

Oh yeah. You had them dressed the same and both firing wands. Got confuzzled.

 

I'm thinking about working a DPS Bleak Walker into my PotD run. Flame damage stacking, crit multiplier, Accuracy, "vs. low Endurance" and "on kill" stuff that Paladins can proc off of, etc.

Exoduss, on 14 Apr 2015 - 11:11 AM, said: 

 

also secret about hardmode with 6 man party is :  its a faceroll most of the fights you will Auto Attack mobs while lighting your spliff

 

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Like others have mentioned, wizard start off as weak, and do not truly shine until lategame. Confusion alone makes the wizard worth taking.

I honestly like paladins. They make excellent support tanks. I would take paladin just for the aura (whichever one you choose), and the liberating and reviving exhortation. Lay on hands and flames of devotion are good too, especially if you go with the faction that allows you to heal your team for 20 endurance.

 

TBH i prefer the paladin over the fighter.

 

Ofcourse, druids, priests, monks, barbs and ciphers are a tier of their own. The only classes that I currently think needs some love is rangers and chanters (non-POTD).

Edited by cavemandiary
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Paladins are good DPS, Tanky, Healers, and add good group Bonuses. Probably the most well rounded class in the game saying they suck simply means you don't know what you're talking about. Where as they may not be number 1 in all things, the certainly stand alone in how well rounded they are. Should they be buffed for better abilities, I think so, but my main character in my first play through was a Paladin, I didn't seem to have any problems ( I played on hard with expert mode on).

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Paladins are lackluster. They lack any and all focus, I say this as someone that finished the game on Hard difficulty with a PC that was a Paladin.

 

They're worthless tanks compared to fighters, but so is anyone else really. Fighters have far more defenses, more engagement and better endurance recovery (in more than one way). A Paladin is only on equal footing when it comes to an initial deflection bonus and is far more of use to assist other tanks. This is only reinforced due to the fact that some of the powerful defensive abilities a Paladin possesses only affect his allies and not the Paladin himself.

 

Damage wise they're alright for short fights and when you can rest occasionally (to regain Sworn Enemy), but they quickly run out of gas during long fights. Where other classes gain more tricks in their bags to use for long fights, we're still stuck with the initial 2/encounter Flames of Devotion at level 12. This, despite being able to heavily specialize and improve this ability along the way.

 

Then there's support. In this category Paladins also tend to fall short. The range of aura's is tiny and requires a hefty investment in intellect to even properly cover allies in melee. Boots of Zealous command are almost mandatory for any Paladin to take, simply to make aura's worthwhile for anyone but the Paladin and the people almost literally hugging him. The other supportive abilities that Paladins are able to obtain are decent, especially the ones later on, but a Priest basically brings the same utility and much, much more.

 

Once you've tried out the other classes, the Paladin just feels so lackluster. Another way to gauge their shortcomings is that during my playthrough(s), I never felt "next time I level up my Paladin, it'll make a big difference for the group" while with other classes like fighters, ciphers, wizard (later on) and priests I felt the opposite. They're alright offtanks, but the same can be said about most classes when you stick them in plate armor along with a bit of perception or resolve.

 

At the moment I would say that the only real reason to get a Paladin in your party, is if you simply want a Paladin in your party.

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Paladins are good DPS, Tanky, Healers, and add good group Bonuses. Probably the most well rounded class in the game saying they suck simply means you don't know what you're talking about. Where as they may not be number 1 in all things, the certainly stand alone in how well rounded they are. Should they be buffed for better abilities, I think so, but my main character in my first play through was a Paladin, I didn't seem to have any problems ( I played on hard with expert mode on).

 

I just want my character to be NO.1 in certain field, is that too hard? Or I should not use a paladin?

Edited by dunehunter
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Paladins are good DPS, Tanky, Healers, and add good group Bonuses. Probably the most well rounded class in the game saying they suck simply means you don't know what you're talking about. Where as they may not be number 1 in all things, the certainly stand alone in how well rounded they are. Should they be buffed for better abilities, I think so, but my main character in my first play through was a Paladin, I didn't seem to have any problems ( I played on hard with expert mode on).

 

I just want my character to be NO.1 in certain field, is that too hard? Or I should not use a paladin?

 

Aren't they kind of made to have the highest passive defenses?

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If Zealous Endurance was changed to +5 DR (from +3) and gave the using Paladin an extra engagement slot, it would help close the tanking gap, and maybe make Zealous Focus less of a no-brainer. Fightards would still have the engagement slot edge with Defender (+2 slots).

Exoduss, on 14 Apr 2015 - 11:11 AM, said: 

 

also secret about hardmode with 6 man party is :  its a faceroll most of the fights you will Auto Attack mobs while lighting your spliff

 

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If Zealous Endurance was changed to +5 DR (from +3) and gave the using Paladin an extra engagement slot, it would help close the tanking gap, and maybe make Zealous Focus less of a no-brainer. Fightards would still have the engagement slot edge with Defender (+2 slots).

And give atk speed % increase on the blue aura  :w00t:

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The problem with Paladins is that they're basically jack of all trades. They can tank, but Fighters are better. They have some spike damage abilities but DPS classes like Barbarians and Rogues ouperform them easily. They have some support abilities, but Priests have more and better ones. The best thing I can come up with is an off-tank with a 2h weapon using FoD, Zealous focus, Sworn Enemy, and using the massive Faith and Conviction defense bonus instead of a shield. Or switch to an actual shield when things go **** up. They can be a solid class but they're not the best at anything which ticks people off.

 

Wizards are strong at later levels though.

Edited by Judicator
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And give atk speed % increase on the blue aura  :w00t:

 

Zealous Charge needs something extra to make it worth taking, sure, but it should be something in keeping with the spirit of the aura, which is mobility. Maybe a linger effect so characters could dip in and out of the aura while maintaining the buff for a short time.

 

Another odd thing about the aura system is that Focus is the only one with another (admittedly terrible) class ability to augment it.

Exoduss, on 14 Apr 2015 - 11:11 AM, said: 

 

also secret about hardmode with 6 man party is :  its a faceroll most of the fights you will Auto Attack mobs while lighting your spliff

 

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Paladins are good for the same reason chanters are:  They can accomplish other tasks while doing their buffing.

 

* Caster wants to grant +accuracy buff?  takes time to cast the spell.  Paladin wants to do the same?  It's already on.  Same with DR aura.

* Priest wants to heal the party?  Lets get our fragile, clothbearer butt into position, assuming we aren't engaged away from the party of course, and start casting.  Wayfarer pally wants to do the same?  Well, since we're already in the front line, lets hit someone which we were gonna do anyway and if we get a kill, out goes the heal.

* Want a deflection bonus?  Well you COULD wave your hands around casting and doing nothing else for those seconds, or you can just ask the nice shieldbearer pally if he wants to buff the damage of his opening arbalest shot.  Tough choice.

 

Given how much of the fight is determined in the first few moments, it's actually pretty nice to be able to do two distinct benefical actions at once, and that's the reason for the pally.

 

I'm not saying pallies and chanters are uber, and I'm not even sure they're as good as another class might be.  What I *am* saying that "burst buffing" is a heck of a lot harder to notice than burst damage is, but consider that a shieldbearer pally can give the party a +acc AND a +deflection buff before the first enemy is done falling over from his opening arbalest shot.  And he can do that for every fight.  Think about it.

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Things paladin needs imo (for different possible roles):

 

Talent for +1 use of flames of devotion when downing an enemy. (or some other way of doing more stable dps during the fight, but this one works quite well I think)

Lay of Hands scaing

Some +engagement slot talent, maybe as others suggested give it to DR aura.

 

Also it's unfair how much better PC paladin is compared to mercs. Smth should be done with it too (mercs gaining reputation with level or sharing PC reputation?).

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