[Spoilers] Hylea

[PsychoBlonde]

All of the gods felt really shortsighted and kind of dumb (except Berath). I don't even get what they *do*. They don't answer prayers, don't create anything and don't involve themselves in the world. Except for Berath who actually has a domain that he keeps up to snuff, it's like a world governed by a bunch of Ao's from D&D, but it's not even that because they don't "govern" anything, they are just there for some stupid decision a bunch of people made 2000 years ago. So I don't think it's surprising that Hylea is all BIRDIES!! I think they all are a little unhinged.

 

if they are supposed to be "symbols" for anything, that can't be right, because even in the real world a religious text or representation can't be a "symbol" for anything. ALL religious texts and representations are allegories and can NOT be symbols. Schiller already mused on this in the 18th century.

 

You do realize that allegory is a synonym for symbol and literary allegory is a *type* of symbolism.

[Christliar]

 

All of the gods felt really shortsighted and kind of dumb (except Berath). I don't even get what they *do*. They don't answer prayers, don't create anything and don't involve themselves in the world. Except for Berath who actually has a domain that he keeps up to snuff, it's like a world governed by a bunch of Ao's from D&D, but it's not even that because they don't "govern" anything, they are just there for some stupid decision a bunch of people made 2000 years ago. So I don't think it's surprising that Hylea is all BIRDIES!! I think they all are a little unhinged.

 

if they are supposed to be "symbols" for anything, that can't be right, because even in the real world a religious text or representation can't be a "symbol" for anything. ALL religious texts and representations are allegories and can NOT be symbols. Schiller already mused on this in the 18th century.

 

You do realize that allegory is a synonym for symbol and literary allegory is a *type* of symbolism.

 

It isn't. There are clear differences between symbol, allegory, euphemism, metaphor etc. The short of it is that a symbol IS the idea or concept represented by it while allegory is an extended metaphor, is cheap (just ask Tolkien) and it represents something else that isn't it. It's somewhat more complicated than this, but this is the short version. This is all 18th century philosophy and that's how we rationalize the differences now.

[Vilma]

I've had a lot of pondering to do over this quest.

 

In general, gods of this pantheon came out as attention-seeking selfish beings. I liked the fact that they weren't one-dimensional anymore (see Latander/Imlater/Auril/Umberlee etc.), seems like the right thing for the plot. But it also makes them a lot like mere empowered humans.

When I came into the "temple" to ask for their advice, I thought I'd try and pray to Eothas, he seemed like the least attention seeking god and had sense (I still don't get if Waidwen was his idea or not). Silly me, Eothas doesn't answer to prayers anymore. I bet other gods were just jealous of him and plotted against him  .

I've gained a lot of respect for Berath, while killing so many people along the way I had to remind myself, they will be reborn and I'm not breaking the balance. But his quest to kill two people, none of whom seemed like very evil and deserving bastards made me realize I was tired of murder and needed a break. There were people, I'd have to kill with those two as well, what kind of fair is that?

 

Hylea seemed like a nice goddess and she wouldn't actually ask me to kill anyone in her name, would she? So I let the dragon stay and defended my choice.

Other gods were like "worship me more, we need those souls, so people would be just grateful to us". Rymgrand, really? He already takes away bits of souls every cycle, what does he need those extra for, I wonder? Selfish once more. Skaen? Don't make me laugh.

 

But Hyleas option went well with my own goals: my character was determined (obsessed) to put an end to the legacy and bring joy to people who have almost lost their children. I wanted to spread joy to the people, who were affected and scared there was no god could protect them. I could do a good thing! Yay! In the end I didn't care for Hylea herself much. Especially how she answered to Pallegina. Very selfishly.

If Wael came with his proposal earlier, I would have considered his proposal very tempting. But as I have already made a promise to Hylea and given her blessing, how could I betray my own words? Wael, what were you counting on really?   I've done enough betraying in my past lives!

[communard]

Her argument isn't "lol birds are great" or whatever it is you said. If your Watcher paid any attention to the world around him he would have seen the immense suffering caused by the Hollowborn and the terrible effect it is having on all of society. For some characters, it's not enough that the souls would be reborn if they were returned to the cycle, that's an academic truth maybe, but it doesn't have the sense of justice that returning the souls to their rightful vessels has. Remember, side with Berath, and healthy births will start again, but thousands of parents of Hollowborn already living will never see their children look them in the eye, they will care for soulless husks until they die. For an academic assurance of security, some would pay that price, but it is hardly the stupid decision you paint it as. It is a valid option.

Edited April 4, 2015 by communard

[SEngeven]

  I just assumed the gods were less "good/evil/chaotic/lawful alignment" and a bit more "disposition" aligned.  They embody their celebrated "dispositions" (to a point of course, they are still deities and act as beings worshiped by thousands would when snubbed).  Hence why Hylea, as a deity more inclined towards beneficial actions, would try to fix all the hollow-born children whereas another more "rational" deity, like Berath, would find that rather naive.  

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

So at this point I'm like "listen dude, I need your help jumping in that big freaking hole" and she says you got it, she then asks me to return the souls to the Hollowborn.

 

Rightfully, I can bring up Berath's cautions and respond with something along the lines of "Wouldn't that have reprocussions? Surely it's not that simple and things are bound to go wrong?"

 

She responds "BUT IF YOU CAN SAVE EVEN JUST ONE BEAUTIFUL LIFE BY DOING SO, IT WILL BE WORTH IT~~" in her mystical-ass, sing-songy tone.

 

 

You missed her point entirely. It wasn't "even saving one life makes it worth it", it was "there's a reason the cycle exists, and those souls had a purpose in this life, the one that was taken from them - returning them to the cycle isn't 'restoring balance', it's taking an existing imbalance and running with it, instead of trying to rectify it".

[SZJX]

I'm thinking the exact opposite. After such a long quest about how to deal with the Hollowborn issue it seems only Hylea talks about an actual remedy. When you were talking with the gods how can you be sure that the souls are corrupted and abnormal after all. That's other gods' trickery words. They're just trapped there. Maybe some of them such as wichts cannot be saved, but there are still many hollowborns out there who are kept by parents and hoping for remedy, and even some children who are not born at all such as the case about the woman you helped in Gilded Vile. And after all they'll still go back to the Wheel in the end, what's wrong. Every other god looked like a coldblooded d*** and only Hylea was at least a bit humane. I'm not passing on any moral judgment or whatsoever, games are exactly designed for you to do whatever you want, but I'm at least glad that there's a more humane and benevolent god out there among all those whimsical, scheming and cruel ones. To think that a whole bunch of people would be following Rymrgand/Skaen and treat wrecking havoc/destruction as their aim in life, that'll be quite insane. Anyways glad to see most people here realizing the clear deficiencies in OP's line of thought and recognizing Hylea's idea as a good one. Play less CoD and have some soul! 

Edited August 10, 2015 by SZJX

[evilcat]

It is fun to tal with Hylea if you have Pellegina in party.

The good thing about non DnD rpg is that there is less good vs bad, more cruel, passionate, rational... so nobody tells you "yes you are beacon of hope, take a cookie".

I killed the dragon, since why not, but it is actually cool that you can finish the quest with just talking.

[jsaving]

I actually thought the deities had reasonably well articulated and differentiated points of view that left no clearly correct answer about how to best handle the Hollowborn issue.  Certainly Hylea gives the answer that is most compassionate, but other deities make a reasonable case that her approach is pointless or even counterproductive.  Making the best decision you can without all the evidence you want is one of the strengths of this game, and the choice of which deity/deities to embrace is definitely no exception. 

 

Regarding the deities being a bunch of Ao's -- that is what they claim, but they do virtually nothing when one deity (Woedica) repeatedly subverts human history over a multi-century period of time and then they blow to smithereens the one deity (Eothas) who apparently tries to stop it.  What does it mean to have a mutual agreement not to interfere if those who break the agreement can do so with impunity?     

[tinysalamander]

+necro

 

Maybe Hylea is just an airhead :} I've chosen her option, though. Too bad you couldn't at least try praying to Eothas first, even if it didn't work it kind of make sense for his priests.

[jsaving]

While it looks like Eothas is gone for good, there is a little bit of ambiguity over whether Waidwen was a fraud rather than really being Eothas.  One NPC also raises the possibility that Eothas might perhaps be reborn as mortals are (and as Eothas' Forgotten Realms analogue Lathander has been on more than one occasion).  It's also worth mentioning that Eothas' main portfolio is renewal, something not inconsistent with some kind of rebirth down the road.   Maybe the devs deliberately omitted Eothas as a "choice" toward the end of the game because they didn't want to give definitive answers to these questions? 

[evilcat]

While it looks like Eothas is gone for good, there is a little bit of ambiguity over whether Waidwen was a fraud rather than really being Eothas.  One NPC also raises the possibility that Eothas might perhaps be reborn as mortals are (and as Eothas' Forgotten Realms analogue Lathander has been on more than one occasion).  It's also worth mentioning that Eothas' main portfolio is renewal, something not inconsistent with some kind of rebirth down the road.   Maybe the devs deliberately omitted Eothas as a "choice" toward the end of the game because they didn't want to give definitive answers to these questions? 

Actually i also wish there was Eothas option. Sounds like not that bad option, not more metal than Gawain.

Also the candles are still burning, so god of rebirth is not dead yet.

[Novaseaker]

Hello all! New here, so hope I don't rock too many boats.

 

Longknife, I think the problem is that you're just a very rational person. There is nothing wrong with that. However, the logical answer isn't always the kindest, most benevolent one. Send the souls back to the Wheel? Yes, nice and clean. You know exactly what will happen, and everything returns to its course.

 

But what about all the families across the Dyrwood that have been wronged? What of all the broken homes and crying mothers? Sending the souls back to the Cycle does not help these people. It does not right the injustice they have suffered at Woedica and Thaos's hands.

 

When Hylea says, as you might put it, "HERP DERP WORTH IT EVEN IF ONLY ONE BABY IS FINE" she's not being literal. She's not saying that it's a possibility that only one baby might be saved. She's telling you to not play moral arithmetic. If you can fix the injustice and make families happy, you should. If some of the original vessels can no longer house souls, because they have died or turned into Wichts, does the uncertainty of what happens then really invalidate the absolute certainty that every household with a Hollowborn infant will feel an immeasurable sense of relief and joy that their child is now whole?

 

You can say that souls just reincarnate, but the people of Eora know this already. It's no comfort. Despite the Cycle being a known fact, the people of this world still value their lives and their families lives just as much as we do. As evidenced by the Grieving Mother, grief is still a thing. And losing a child is one of the worst kinds of grief imaginable, to me at least. Returning the Hollowborn souls to the Wheel might let them start journeying down the road again, but all those grieving families, still desperately clinging to the hope that their all-too-quiet children will recover, will be left in the dust.

 

That's not benevolent. That's logical. Berath offers a certainty, but it's not a happy certainty. Hylea begs you to choose hope.

 

It's like an old question I remember. Pretend you're a commander, leading 100 men back from war. There are two paths you can choose. Your adviser says one path, with absolute certainty, will kill 50 of your men, but 50 will make it home. The second path, however, offers a 50% chance that all 100 men will make it back, or all 100 will die. Which path do you choose?

 

I choose the second one, because I can't deliberately and knowingly send 50 men to their death. I'll take the chance. I'll decide to Hope. And I made a deal with Hylea for the same reason.

 

I have the feeling you would choose the first path. You might say it would be irresponsible to risk all 100 lives when you know for certain that with one decision, half your men will absolutely make it home. But that's the beauty of it. Just like the choice of gods, there's no right answer, just the one that makes the most sense to you. (And really, isn't that why these types of games are great, letting you chose for yourself?)

[globalCooldown]

I feel like the fact that this thread is so long and people have churned out so many paragraphs on the gods and the choices they offer ultimately means the devs did a good job writing this part. Everyone will find at least one reasonable choice, and one choice they think is stupid.