BUG: Cipher focus gain permanently disabled by Drinking Horn of Moderation

[ossy_87]

I noticed that my main character (cipher) suddenly stopped being able to generate focus, and tested until I found the reason, namely the "Drinking Horn of Moderation" neck slot item. 

 

To test:

I created a new cipher adventurer ("the character" below), and saved the game.

 

I loaded the saved game and equipped the character with a blunderbuss and nothing else, and attacked a paralyzed lion.

2 grazes, 3 hit, 1 crit, grazes at 6~ hits and crits around 12. 

Result: went from 15 to 29 focus. This is what is expected.

 

Reloaded the saved game, equipped blunderbuss and horn of moderation, exited inventory screen (to let the buff happen), entered inventory screen, unequipped horn, and then attacked the same, paralyzed lion.

2 grazes, 3 hit, 1 crit, grazes around ~7, hits and crits around 11. 

Result: went from 15 to 18 focus. Same result if you leave the horn equipped.

 

Reloaded the saved game, equipped horn and blunderbuss, got character knocked out, won the fight, and then used the character to attack a paralyzed lion.

3 grazes, 3 hits, grazes around ~7 and hits around 10.

Result: went from 15 to 14 focus. All attacks made after this one leave focus unchanged. Focus still refills to half after each fight ends.

 

This is irrevocable and persists through save/load, and also stops draining whip from working entirely, if you level up to 2 and take it and redo the tests with it.

[Veevoir]

So it's the horn! I thought the modals got broken (because some other modals act funky, eg. reckless assault for rogue).

But you are right - in my instance when focus stopped generating I had that damn horn equipped.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Veevoir

[ruryop]

Please post some fix to this problem (even save editing in some hex). It's pretty annoying and I don't have a save that I can recall to after > 30-40h of playing.

[ossy_87]

So this can be considered a major bug for the following reasons:

 

The item is not difficult to get. If I remember correct it is rewarded from a straightforward task in Ondora's Gift.

The stats seem great for a cipher, so many will equip it straight away if they have a cipher.

Once equipped, the character becomes broken, but this is not immediately apparent. There is no crash, message, or any indication of the problem, so the player can go on without noticing for some time. You get it in an area where you have already likely defeated most if not all enemies.

The first noticeable change is greatly reduced focus gain in combat, but this can still be overlooked in for a time. It only becomes absolutely obvious once the character has been knocked out, which can happen way down the road. And at this point, there's no turning back barring loading a game prior to equipping the item.

 

This delay between breakage and manifestation means that people have more time to overwrite their own saves, or just having to go a long way back to fix the problem. This combined with the availability of the item and how easy it is to activate this bug (equip the item once), means that there's probably going to be many more people than me and the posters above that will stumble into it.

 

And if they're as irresponsible with manual saves as I am, their choice becomes replaying around 15+ hours or to go on playing with a broken character.

Save often (quicksave, yeah!)... and in different slots (aww).

[toxicjester]

I'm having the same problem. I tried to use Carow Golan hoping it's +focus on hit would help out or fix it. It didn't do anything either.

[Shadell13]

I seem to have had precisely the same problem occur with "Talisman of the Unconquerable". I haven't seen the drinking horn yet, but is the effect meant to multiply focus gains?

 

Talisman's Effect in its description reads: "+2 Intellect while Endurance above 50%, x1 Focus Gain while Endurance above 50%" When examined from the character status screen instead of the inventory, the effect becomes: "x1.25 Focus Gain while Endurance above 50%, +2 Intellect while Endurance above 50%"

 

 

Copied the test in the OP with the talisman. I have no blunderbuss yet, so I used a saber instea and a paralyzed dark spore instead of a lion. My Test adventurer: TEST generated the following results:

• (No amulet equipped): 2 hits, 1 crit TEST goes from 15 to 25 focus.
• (Amulet equipped): 3 hits, TEST goes from 15 to 17 focus
• (Amulet equipped and immediately removed): 1 hit, 1 crit, 2 more hits, TEST goes from 15 to 17 focus.
• (Amulet equipped and immediately removed, character goes on to fight a second spore): hit, crit, hit TEST stays at 15 throughout
• (TEST is allowed to level up to 2, purchasing draining whip after last trial. The amulet is not reequipped after leveling up): 1 crit, 1 hit TEST goes from 20 to 19 focus.

 

I have not yet seen the drinking horn of moderation in game, is the effect a focus multiplier like the amulet? And if so, has anyone obtained the "Brîshalgwin Mindmarker"? If so, does the bug repeat with that? The item is listed on the wiki as another focus gain multiplier and I'm wondering if the problem is universal to all of them.

[TheCommieDuck]

I seem to have had precisely the same problem occur with "Talisman of the Unconquerable". I haven't seen the drinking horn yet, but is the effect meant to multiply focus gains?

 

Talisman's Effect in its description reads: "+2 Intellect while Endurance above 50%, x1 Focus Gain while Endurance above 50%" When examined from the character status screen instead of the inventory, the effect becomes: "x1.25 Focus Gain while Endurance above 50%, +2 Intellect while Endurance above 50%"

 

 

Copied the test in the OP with the talisman. I have no blunderbuss yet, so I used a saber instea and a paralyzed dark spore instead of a lion. My Test adventurer: TEST generated the following results:

• (No amulet equipped): 2 hits, 1 crit TEST goes from 15 to 25 focus.
• (Amulet equipped): 3 hits, TEST goes from 15 to 17 focus
• (Amulet equipped and immediately removed): 1 hit, 1 crit, 2 more hits, TEST goes from 15 to 17 focus.
• (Amulet equipped and immediately removed, character goes on to fight a second spore): hit, crit, hit TEST stays at 15 throughout
• (TEST is allowed to level up to 2, purchasing draining whip after last trial. The amulet is not reequipped after leveling up): 1 crit, 1 hit TEST goes from 20 to 19 focus.

 

I have not yet seen the drinking horn of moderation in game, is the effect a focus multiplier like the amulet? And if so, has anyone obtained the "Brîshalgwin Mindmarker"? If so, does the bug repeat with that? The item is listed on the wiki as another focus gain multiplier and I'm wondering if the problem is universal to all of them.

Both have the Unconquerable effect, yes.

[pewdd]

So this can be considered a major bug for the following reasons:

 

The item is not difficult to get. If I remember correct it is rewarded from a straightforward task in Ondora's Gift.

The stats seem great for a cipher, so many will equip it straight away if they have a cipher.

Once equipped, the character becomes broken, but this is not immediately apparent. There is no crash, message, or any indication of the problem, so the player can go on without noticing for some time. You get it in an area where you have already likely defeated most if not all enemies.

The first noticeable change is greatly reduced focus gain in combat, but this can still be overlooked in for a time. It only becomes absolutely obvious once the character has been knocked out, which can happen way down the road. And at this point, there's no turning back barring loading a game prior to equipping the item.

 

This delay between breakage and manifestation means that people have more time to overwrite their own saves, or just having to go a long way back to fix the problem. This combined with the availability of the item and how easy it is to activate this bug (equip the item once), means that there's probably going to be many more people than me and the posters above that will stumble into it.

 

And if they're as irresponsible with manual saves as I am, their choice becomes replaying around 15+ hours or to go on playing with a broken character.

Save often (quicksave, yeah!)... and in different slots (aww).

 

That's pretty much exactly what happened to me. The game is still playable even with the bugged focus but it really sucks.

 

Talisman of the Unconquerable was the one that triggered the bug for me.

[spblue]

Please, Obsidian. Provide us with a console command or something that will fix this issue, I'm 25 hours in and I don't have any save games that aren't affected by the bug. I'm really not going to restart and play for 25 hours again.

[LockeMurdock]

Same problem here. Really hoping it's fixed somehow.

[Xaratas]

If someone has access to the link in the http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=157864186&postcount=3254

Maybe there is a fix.

[Urthor]

He said that the Obsidian team has fixed the bug, but they need to test it first and it doesn't seem like they'll be hot fixing it today/tomorrow.

 

If someone finds a workaround you are my hero.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Urthor

[concrete_being]

I have the same problem - the Talisman of the Unconquerable borked my Cipher.  On the plus side, though, my Cipher now has 35 Intelligence, as it seems to have somehow affected that too. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by concrete_being

[Jabokiebean]

I've been having a bug too that I also think is related to the item.

 

My int won't go back down and keeps going up by 2... 

 

http://imgur.com/aNVRvSi

[concrete_being]

I've been having a bug too that I also think is related to the item.

 

My int won't go back down and keeps going up by 2... 

 

http://imgur.com/aNVRvSi

 

Yeah, I'm guessing that what's happening is that both the Focus gain number and the intelligence are being repeatedly incremented once per encounter.  The intelligence appears to cap out at 35 (at least, my Cipher isn't gaining any more than that), but I suspect that there wasn't a hard ceiling on what your focus gain could be, so the numerical field that stores the value is probably wrapping around or something and breaking things.  If that's actually the case, then wearing it longer should theoretically make your Focus Gain return to normal values, but the Intelligence is still borked. 

 

I have an idea of how to test this theory.  When I get a chance, I'll perform the following test with a character whose intelligence is less than 35:

 

1).  Record the intelligence value of the Cipher/Wizard/etc... before placing the Talisman on him/her.

2).  Place the Talisman on the character

3).  Enter combat

4).  After combat, take off the Talisman

5).  Record the intelligence value of the character afterwards.  Is the value 2 higher than in step 1?

[TheCommieDuck]

 

I've been having a bug too that I also think is related to the item.

 

My int won't go back down and keeps going up by 2... 

 

http://imgur.com/aNVRvSi

 

Yeah, I'm guessing that what's happening is that both the Focus gain number and the intelligence are being repeatedly incremented once per encounter.  The intelligence appears to cap out at 35 (at least, my Cipher isn't gaining any more than that), but I suspect that there wasn't a hard ceiling on what your focus gain could be, so the numerical field that stores the value is probably wrapping around or something and breaking things.  If that's actually the case, then wearing it longer should theoretically make your Focus Gain return to normal values, but the Intelligence is still borked. 

 

I have an idea of how to test this theory.  When I get a chance, I'll perform the following test with a character whose intelligence is less than 35:

 

1).  Record the intelligence value of the Cipher/Wizard/etc... before placing the Talisman on him/her.

2).  Place the Talisman on the character

3).  Enter combat

4).  After combat, take off the Talisman

5).  Record the intelligence value of the character afterwards.  Is the value 2 higher than in step 1?

 

Mine peaked at 42..but it doesn't seem to actually give the AoE bonus, just the will bonus. 

[concrete_being]

Yeah, it happened pretty much exactly as I predicted:

 

1).  My Fighter Fenric has 19 Intelligence to start off with.  http://i.imgur.com/Ng33mKZ.jpg

2).  When I put the Talisman on, this is raised to 21.  http://i.imgur.com/BmXaxza.jpg

3).  During the next fight (I'm not sure exactly when this happens), his Intelligence was raised by 4, so he now has 25 Intelligence.  http://i.imgur.com/Y0XBlpf.jpg

4).  I took the Talisman off, leaving him with 23 Intelligence.  http://i.imgur.com/DpfwS5K.jpg

 

This, my friends, is what we call a bug.

[Depili]

I have also run into this problem with the amulet.

[vsanders]

Yup. This one just screwed me, too. Only lost about 4 hours, though.

 

Funny thing is: I'd resolved not to hard save as often, because I found myself scumming too much. Damned if you do...

[XenoCrash]

I've also run into the bug with the "Talisman of the Unconquerable." My INT is currently at 38 and I haven't been gaining any focus in combat. It does seem like INT is affecting the duration of my spells though.

[SSH83]

My Grieving Mother now has a new reason to be sad.

Edited March 29, 2015 by SSH83

[quechn1tlan]

Yup, same here. That's mighty annoying, especially since I overwrote my manual save after getting that item. I aint replaying 20+hours cause of this. I guess my main character is just going to have to be a really squishy fighter now.

[Gvaz]

Someone had something similar to this, when he was testing someone else's corrupted save file. when he loaded it up he couldn't save, or even make new saves, even after a system restore lol

[Tokoloshe]

Same here, suspected the horn, but didn't change after unequipping it, did not notice the Int gain yet. Very nasty bug, glad my main is not a Cipher (though my next one will be).

[XenoCrash]

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING ADVICE IS ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A HEX EDITOR IS OR CAN'T QUICKLY FIGURE OUT WHAT 4C IS IN BASE 10 THEN DO NOT ATTEMPT. ALSO MAKE SURE TO BACK UP YOUR SAVES.

 

So after extracting MobileObjects.save (using 7Zip) from a few save files and playing around in a hex editor I've figured out a way to fix the focus gain and the increased INT (which was definitely increasing status effect durations) from using the talisman (and probably the horn). Unfortunately the locations to edit will be different for every file, so I don't have any quick solution. Basically you want to look for the strings "FocusGainMult" and "IntellectBonus". It seems like the default focus gain hex values should be "00 00 80 3F" (this is what it's set to for a Cipher with no bonus and all other characters), but in my save after using the unconquerable talisman it was something like "5C 57 36 8A" (I forget exactly what it was). After taking the talisman off (and making sure I didn't have anything else giving an INT bonus) I edited the values in the "broken" save to be the default, put the altered MobileObjects.save file back into the save file, loaded the save and verified that I was able to gain focus in combat and that my Cipher had the correct INT value.

 

I haven't played at all after doing this fix, so it's still possible that the focus multiplier or INT bonus will get messed up again even without wearing the broken item. I also realized that Draining Whip might have a different FocusGainMult value, but haven't checked yet. In testing this all out I also noticed that another character had INT and PER values that were too high, but they were using different equipment that gave int bonuses (also in the Neck slot). Maybe there's just a general issue with bonuses from items in the neck slo

 

NOTE: I probably won't be checking this thread often (if at all), so don't wait for any answers from me if you have questions about editing your save.

[Cantousent]

I love the disclaimer, XenoCrash. I wish everyone who suggested hex or (heaven forbid) registry editing would put up a similar one!