Chanters too slow

[wolfing]

yes the problem to me is not that the class is weak or something, but it has a problem.  All classes, when they get higher level spells, they're good to have. But in the case of chanters, the higher level phrases are not useful as they take longer to chant, thus delaying the real important incantations. So for most people, it's better to just use the same 3 level 1 phrases they got from the beginning of the game.  That is bad design IMHO.

[Ceranai]

yes the problem to me is not that the class is weak or something, but it has a problem.  All classes, when they get higher level spells, they're good to have. But in the case of chanters, the higher level phrases are not useful as they take longer to chant, thus delaying the real important incantations. So for most people, it's better to just use the same 3 level 1 phrases they got from the beginning of the game.  That is bad design IMHO.

It isn tbh. I can quite easily live with 20 seconds of my speed chant/fortitude chant to get out two ogres then switch to my aoe Fire nuke. Its just tactical. TBH i wish other highlevel spells came with similar consequences, because it keeps the lower level spells more competitive. I think the problem is that most classes dont need to min max or make any real choice strategically, as a wiz or druid you unload you high level spells first and work down, as a chanter you have to make a choice about faster invocations with weak chants, or slower invocations with more powerful chants.IMO chanters realllly shine in longer fights

[Epsilon Rose]

 

yes the problem to me is not that the class is weak or something, but it has a problem.  All classes, when they get higher level spells, they're good to have. But in the case of chanters, the higher level phrases are not useful as they take longer to chant, thus delaying the real important incantations. So for most people, it's better to just use the same 3 level 1 phrases they got from the beginning of the game.  That is bad design IMHO.

It isn tbh. I can quite easily live with 20 seconds of my speed chant/fortitude chant to get out two ogres then switch to my aoe Fire nuke. Its just tactical. TBH i wish other highlevel spells came with similar consequences, because it keeps the lower level spells more competitive. I think the problem is that most classes dont need to min max or make any real choice strategically, as a wiz or druid you unload you high level spells first and work down, as a chanter you have to make a choice about faster invocations with weak chants, or slower invocations with more powerful chants.IMO chanters realllly shine in longer fights

 

Sure, but how often do you have those longer fights where you can use a longer song to power down an enemy and then take advantage of weaker songs to power an invocation? In my experience, fights barely last long enough to get out a first level song with first level phrases. On it's own, the chanter may not have a bad design, but the rest of the game isn't built in a way that allows that design to work.

[HozzM]

 

 

yes the problem to me is not that the class is weak or something, but it has a problem.  All classes, when they get higher level spells, they're good to have. But in the case of chanters, the higher level phrases are not useful as they take longer to chant, thus delaying the real important incantations. So for most people, it's better to just use the same 3 level 1 phrases they got from the beginning of the game.  That is bad design IMHO.

It isn tbh. I can quite easily live with 20 seconds of my speed chant/fortitude chant to get out two ogres then switch to my aoe Fire nuke. Its just tactical. TBH i wish other highlevel spells came with similar consequences, because it keeps the lower level spells more competitive. I think the problem is that most classes dont need to min max or make any real choice strategically, as a wiz or druid you unload you high level spells first and work down, as a chanter you have to make a choice about faster invocations with weak chants, or slower invocations with more powerful chants.IMO chanters realllly shine in longer fights

 

Sure, but how often do you have those longer fights where you can use a longer song to power down an enemy and then take advantage of weaker songs to power an invocation? In my experience, fights barely last long enough to get out a first level song with first level phrases. On it's own, the chanter may not have a bad design, but the rest of the game isn't built in a way that allows that design to work.

 

Yeah they definitely get stronger the longer a fight lasts but that does not make them good or balanced, IMO.

[Epsilon Rose]

 

 

 

yes the problem to me is not that the class is weak or something, but it has a problem.  All classes, when they get higher level spells, they're good to have. But in the case of chanters, the higher level phrases are not useful as they take longer to chant, thus delaying the real important incantations. So for most people, it's better to just use the same 3 level 1 phrases they got from the beginning of the game.  That is bad design IMHO.

It isn tbh. I can quite easily live with 20 seconds of my speed chant/fortitude chant to get out two ogres then switch to my aoe Fire nuke. Its just tactical. TBH i wish other highlevel spells came with similar consequences, because it keeps the lower level spells more competitive. I think the problem is that most classes dont need to min max or make any real choice strategically, as a wiz or druid you unload you high level spells first and work down, as a chanter you have to make a choice about faster invocations with weak chants, or slower invocations with more powerful chants.IMO chanters realllly shine in longer fights

 

Sure, but how often do you have those longer fights where you can use a longer song to power down an enemy and then take advantage of weaker songs to power an invocation? In my experience, fights barely last long enough to get out a first level song with first level phrases. On it's own, the chanter may not have a bad design, but the rest of the game isn't built in a way that allows that design to work.

 

Yeah they definitely get stronger the longer a fight lasts but that does not make them good or balanced, IMO.

 

If every, or most, fight(s) lasted a while, instead of being over in less than a minute, than it would be fine. Unfortunately, that's not how PoE works.

[b0rsuk]

Chanters are upside-down casters in more way than one. They even encourage pulling two packs at the same time. Just as you are clearing one pack, you can pull second and hit them with invocation.

 

For those long fights that give trouble, dragons etc, chanters are invaluable.

[The Josip]

I've spent most of the time with a Chanter and the more I become familiar with the game the more I realize Chanters are useless. The battles are too fast. The Chanter isn't weak, it's just not designed properly for this game. It's like Mesmer in Guild Wars (1) PvE back in Prophecies. You cast your hex.. but by the time it can do anything the enemies are dead because elementalists nuked them. Or even better analogy, like a Ritualist. Sure, it's super strong after it spawns all the stationary Spirits with the key word being "after".

[Ceranai]

I've spent most of the time with a Chanter and the more I become familiar with the game the more I realize Chanters are useless. The battles are too fast. The Chanter isn't weak, it's just not designed properly for this game. It's like Mesmer in Guild Wars (1) PvE back in Prophecies. You cast your hex.. but by the time it can do anything the enemies are dead because elementalists nuked them. Or even better analogy, like a Ritualist. Sure, it's super strong after it spawns all the stationary Spirits with the key word being "after".

maybe on normal difficulty but chanters have the highest potential of any character per fight because they have stamina. if most of your fights dont last lost enough to make use of the chanter then your fights arent challenging enough, My fights reguarly last more than 30 seconds (PoTD solo) and you really see chanters come into their own in longer fights, sure if you wanna nuke down an enemy other classes are better but if you want to reliably grind an enemy down then chanters are super OP

[wolfing]

Again, the problem is not that chanters are weak, it's that there is this awesome system Obsidian developed of 'building' chants with different phrases, but in reality, you're better off just keep using the first 2-3 level 1 phrases, because they're faster and you can cast the incantations faster. So, I'm level 10 and I haven't changed my song since like level 4, as when I started experimenting with different combinations, I realized I was weaker if I used higher level phrases in the chant.

Edited April 11, 2015 by wolfing

[Ceranai]

Again, the problem is not that chanters are weak, it's that there is this awesome system Obsidian developed of 'building' chants with different phrases, but in reality, you're better off just keep using the first 2-3 level 1 phrases, because they're faster and you can cast the incantations faster. So, I'm level 10 and I haven't changed my song since like level 4, as when I started experimenting with different combinations, I realized I was weaker if I used higher level phrases in the chant.

the higher level chants are often worth the longer chant time, for example when i turn on y aoe fire damage everyone around me dies, ill open with speed buffs, kite till i can get a summon up then ill switch to fire and nuke the **** out of whatever im fighting

[Infares]

My chanter is one of my tanks alongside my Fire Godlike Barbarian wielding the Lightning Stiletto. 

There's no such thing as "tanking too slowly", lol. Everything else he does is pure benefit.

[Ceranai]

My chanter is one of my tanks alongside my Fire Godlike Barbarian wielding the Lightning Stiletto. 

 

There's no such thing as "tanking too slowly", lol. Everything else he does is pure benefit.

hmm, i think chanters are one of the most versatile classes out there so i really hate when people say they can only be playd 'X' way or that they suck when played 'Z' way, its just like well play to your strengths

[Infares]

 

My chanter is one of my tanks alongside my Fire Godlike Barbarian wielding the Lightning Stiletto. 

 

There's no such thing as "tanking too slowly", lol. Everything else he does is pure benefit.

hmm, i think chanters are one of the most versatile classes out there so i really hate when people say they can only be playd 'X' way or that they suck when played 'Z' way, its just like well play to your strengths

Exactly. Depending on stat spread and talents, as long as you have them on or near the front line and make sure to cluster your other characters near them when fighting, you can give them a talent loadout that will mold them to virtually any style of tank, melee, or ranged DPS. They also make excellent Scroll casters, since they're only going to be using an invocation every 18 seconds-ish or longer anyways.

 

They also make very good recipients for equipment that grants spells per rest for the same reason.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Infares