melee cipher build

[nerevar]

might 18
dex 15
Con 10
int 17
per and res is 9.

Will this stats let you stand a chance during combat?

So question is weapon choice? Should go for 2h or dual wield?

Because of per and res, deflection is not that good.
So comes the armor issue. Cloth or medium armor?

comments, ideas, other build suggestions are welcome.

Edited March 27, 2015 by nerevar

[Cerulean Shaman]

I'm working on a melee cipher too since all the cool kids want to use guns (stop school violence!) and I can't make a melee pet class (why would you butcher the traditionally melee-able ranger, I'll never know). My philosophy is that I want to strike quick and hard, using my spells as a proactive defense since we get a lot of debuffs we can use freely without worry of hitting our allies.

 

My particular build is going to use reach weapons (spears, ect) and play like a skirmisher. I will prefer clothing so my spellcasting and auto attacks are as quick as possible, but I'm keeping a set of armor around for some tougher encounters. 

[conanthelibrarian]

OP, I'm going exactly like you.  I want a duel wield Cihper, and my stats are about the same as yours.  I would like to have a gun to switch to in case I get low health .

 

I think medium armor will be the way to go, unless something special in the cloth department comes along.  With low CON and cloth armor, I'm too afraid of getting wiped out with a couple good shots.  

 

I'm trying to figure out what race to play as, although with the ability to reapply attributes, it doesn't seem that big a deal, except for the 18 cap.  Aumaua would be nice for possibility of 20 MGT, but human also isn't too bad.  

 

I think I am going to use my PC as the trap/lockpicker too since I will lack a rogue party member, so I will need to bump stealth and mechanics.  I also like laborer to get mechanics up to 2 and give me some fatigue resistance.

[Sebmono]

might 18

dex 15

Con 10

int 17

per and res is 9.

 

Will this stats let you stand a chance during combat?

 

So question is weapon choice? Should go for 2h or dual wield?

 

Because of per and res, deflection is not that good.

So comes the armor issue. Cloth or medium armor?

 

comments, ideas, other build suggestions are welcome.

You should be fine with that build, I'm running a Might-14, Dex-16, Con-9, Int-19 build and has been going well for me so far. My build is a little more casting emphasized than yours but I'm going in with dual-stilettos and spells a blazing and having a blast, although only like an hour in so far (killed the 3 dwarfs imprisoning the cook with no trouble). With your higher might I would suggest going with a 2H weapon, probably the Estoc due to it's DR bypass (for weapon focus go Adventurer so you can switch between Estoc with piercing damage and Poleaxe with slash or blunt damage, both 2H), that would maximize your Might % bonus. I'm going for more speed hence the stilletos, also whereas I'll take Draining Whip (since it's a focus bonus per hit and I'll be making many hits) you should take Biting Whip (since it's a damage multiplier). Your type of high-might 2H build was actually the second option I was considering going with but the wife prefered speed

 

As for armor, you'll probably want to stay pretty light, so cloth or hide. I'm running leather right now since I'm already very speedy with dual-weapon focus bonus but will probably consider moving to light once I get more party memebers to tank for me and also when I get the chance to enchant some lighter armor. You're going to be squishy no matter what (especially at the beginning) so I think it's better to just not try and compensate that dimension and just maximize your spells and damage dealing instead.

 

The other build type I was considering, but not sure how effective it would be due to how the Dex-based speed bonus apparently works (or doesn't), Would be a cipher built around 18 or 19 Dex, with might and int around 16 (so con, per, and res would have to be 9 each) and having them wear full plate and go 2H. I think it would be too slow though, especially on the spell casting front. The mental image though I love and may try it out as an experiment!

[conanthelibrarian]

Stiletto's do seem a great choice for duel wielding because of bypassing damage reduction, especially with a higher DEX character.

Flails look interesting because of ability to convert grazes into hits.

 

Should I stick to fast weapons only for a duel wield character?  OR could I use a larger one handed too?  

 

Best skills to me seem soul shock and eye strike, with whisper of treason coming in third. 

 

Thanks for the advice and opinions!  Can't wait to really dig into this game!

[Sebmono]

Yeah the stiletto's have been good for me especially because by not maxing out might and using fast weapons I noticed my rapier damage was getting wiped out by armor early on. The stiletto DR bypass really helps with that a lot. I too was also considering flails and will most likely try it out, both for the graze conversion as well as the double blunt damage, but could see an issue with the speed difference as they are only average speed weapons. It may end up being a situational thing, but not sure yet.

 

I'm thinking that fast weapons should be the go to with dual-wield, in general it seems like maximizing your given advantage is the way to go; so if you have high might, you want to take advantage of the damage multiplier by using higher base damage weapons, whereas by using dual-wield you are implicitly taking a speed approach (can't dual-wield 2H weapons......yet ) so would want to maximize the speed advantage and the % speed bonus from dual-weapon focus. What you are trading with speed is damage which is why making as many hits as possible is beneficial (also DR bypass is huge).

 

I too have liked eye strike and soul shock, but would add mind wave as very good as well. Low focus cost, fast cast time, and raw damage dealing makes it ideal in close combat when already melee engaged (although I haven't found the knockdown portion of the spell to be working, but haven't been paying too close attention). Haven't tried whisper of treason yet but the longer casting time has deterred me so far.

 

Have fun with the game! I'm having a blast in my limited time so far and will definitely be pulling an all nighter tonight 

[nerevar]

 

I'm trying to figure out what race to play as, although with the ability to reapply attributes, it doesn't seem that big a deal, except for the 18 cap. Aumaua would be nice for possibility of 20 MGT, but human also isn't too bad.

 

[Sebmono]

Your right that race matters mostly for it's effect on the attribute cap, race abilities are relatively minor (although do have an effect). I went with wood elf both for the increased Int cap and the defensive bonus at range; given the inherent squishiness of the melee cipher I wanted to improve my defence against ranged enemeis (don't want a squishy engaged in melee AND getting peppered by bows). If you're focusing on a 2H cipher then aumaua would definitely be fun, just max Might and Int.

[nerevar]

I created two characters; one human and one wood elf.

 

i chose wood elf, which gives accuracy bonus when you are away from the enemies, if i am forced to use ranged weapons just in case while my char has low health during combats.

 

Edit: i don't know how my post split in two? Maybe because of posting by smart phone?

Edited March 27, 2015 by nerevar

[conanthelibrarian]

After looking around a little more, I might go with a moon godlike.  That way each time I get below certain levels, I and my surrounding teammates are hit with healing.  

 

Wood elf does seem like the next best thing.  

 

I know that Godlike can't wear helmets, just depends on how good helmets are in the game and what bonuses they impart, vs. how much healing the moon godlike gives off.

[vistani]

I'm doing dual wield atm for faster attacks and thus faster soul energy buildup and more bonus dmg from soul whip..  Also, I like whisper of treason pretty good.. mental binding is amazing though, too strong

[VahnXIII]

Any other thoughts on this? I'm creating a new Cipher when I get home today and really wanted a dual wielding build that allows for quick focus build up. My strategy would be to send in the tank and act as a skirmisher up front with quick attacks to build focus and unleash spells. If things get hairy, i can always pull back and use a ranged weapon. I'm worried that if I focus too much on two weapon fighting style, I'll lose out on any potency at range. 

 

I also planned to go with 14 might, 18 Dex, 16 Int and the rest of the stats at 10. 

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Thank you in advance!

[dusklight]

With Biting Whip and Two Weapon Style, the damage is comparable to a rogue. Get Vulnerable Attacks and Draining Whip too.

[blindhamster]

Due to low endurance you're going to want to improve your deflection. My melee cipher is 15 10 15 12 14 12, so far on hard he's done very well, I went the great sword and breastplate route, technically I probably would have been as good or better had I put perception and resolve on 14 each and might on 16.

[Sebmono]

@VahnXIII for the tactics you describe, a skirmish/DPS Cipher, swap your Int and Dex and you're good to go. Cipher is squishy, no getting around that, so just make sure you use in concert with a tank and you'll have fun; that's essentially the same build as me. The two things I would also emphasize, 1) when dual-wielding go with stilletos as the DR bypass is key since they are low damage weapons and 2) go with Draining Whip instead of Biting Whip since you're trying to get more hits to get focus.

[VahnXIII]

@Sebmono Thank you for the input! I'll think about swapping my Dex and Int scores.  I just figured if I had a higher DEX, I can get in more attacks and stack more Focus quickly. I'd rather be constantly casting spells and changing the tides on a battlefield than anything else. I planned on working in concert with a tank (Eder) and using stilletos for the DR bypass. What level are you currently at? Also, what ranged weapon do you use as a secondary?

[VahnXIII]

Bump

[gnoster]

My cipher is Mig 14 Con 10 Dex 14 Per 10 Int 16 Res 14, I use a blunderbuss as a ranged weapon and dualwield longsword and stiletto in melee, wears brigandine armor and after some nice buys from a vendor in Defiance Bay some nice gloves, belts, and necklaces giving a ton of plusses to different attributes. So far at level 6 he does really well in melee, so much so I use him as the offtank for the target to be dps'ed down (while Pallegina tanks everything else with Saganis wolf and maybe Kana if there's a lot of them).

 

My main regret statwise is the 10 in Perception as I am beginning to notice a lot of conversation choices based on Perception being locked off.

[sku]

My desires are unconventional, so I'm trying high-Interrupt melee cypher now with MIG 13, CON 4, DEX 18, PER 21, INT 17, RES 5. I'm in Gilded Vale's Temple right now, but it goes surprisingly smooth (on Hard; I have several other playthoughs started and can approximate the experience to some degree).

[Lasci]

If you want to optimize your Ciphering, start off every battle with a blunderbuss shot for the focus boost. In an ideal world, you're dual-wielding with enchanted clothes because you want to build focus while dealing damage, but sometimes that's not a realistic option. Don't be afraid to push weapon focus and style feats off until later levels. Remember -- you're a spellcaster at heart. Your weapons supplement your damage; they don't deal the heavy hitting blows. That high Might score is there because you want to fire off Mind Blades into a crowd of enemies, not whack at them. Early on, use spears -- accuracy is incredibly important in the first few levels. Swap weapons as needed; stilettos for DR, hatchets for deflection, spears for accuracy, and so forth. When you're up against a particularly sturdy enemy, just take out a two-hander and go to town. 

[VahnXIII]

Thank you for the input! I settled on 14 Might, 17 Dex, 17 Int, and 10 for the rest. I didn't want to build a true glass cannon. More like I wanted to have a lot of focus to cast spells, but I also wanted to mix and mingle in melee with two blades. 

 

For spells, I took the following:

 

Level 1: Blind (forget the name), Mind Wave (AoE and puts enemies in prone), Antipathetic Field (forgot why I chose this one, sounded like another AoE)

Level 2: Mind Blades (floating blades bouncing between targets, yes), I can't remember the other

 

For skills, I focus on Mechanics. I have 1 stealth, 2 athletics, 7 mechanics, and the rest in lore at this point.

 

For talents, I have Draining Whip. +2 focus on hit with fast weapons = more casting and changing the battlefield. I'm not sure if I should pick up two weapon fighting, biting whip, or whatever next.

 

This set up reminds me of playing a Fightre/Mage/Thief in BG. I can melee, go ranged with a bow or gun, wear light/medium armor and cast spells to deal damage and CC. I feel like this is a well rounded build and I look forward to seeing how it will play out at higher levels.

 

I have Aloth, Eder (he will be my tank. I like his personality), and I'm getting Durance right now. Everyone is level 3. Going to dive into Gilded Vale's side quests now (Aufra's first, then the blacksmith's quest). Then perhaps venture into Gilded Vale's temple? Then Caed Nua? That's how I'm thinking I'll do it.

Edited April 1, 2015 by VahnXIII

[Nokturnal Lex]

On hard or PotD, Cipher survival is way too low to utilize in a melee dps build. Unless the rest of your team is full of tanks making sure the Cipher isn't getting hit.

 

The Cipher's strong suit is their spells, which only require a fast weapon to utilize Soul Whip in order to build Focus. So a Blunderbuss, Warbow/Hunting Bow or Wand is fine for them, it'll also allow you to wear light armor so you can cast and attack faster.

 

You can still switch to dual fast attack weapons for an easy to survive fight or when a hard fight has died down a bit if you want, but like I said their main purpose is their Spells that they should be spamming.

 

It'd work better if the majority of fights in the game weren't giant AoE-fests, but most of the fights are. The rare fights where you're only fighting one monster are insanely easy whether you're melee dpsing them or ranged dpsing them. So I suggest just sticking with making a ranged dps cipher who focuses on spamming spells that way you don't have to also worry about keeping them alive long enough to actually cast said spells.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Nokturnal Lex

[Lasci]

For future reference, I'm fairly sure mechanics has literally no use on your PC. You can have an NPC do it because there aren't any mechanics-driven dialogue options.

 

Also, yes -- Ciphers are not meant to be in melee, but these kinds of builds can always be fun to try out and be silly with!

[Zaruthustran]

I'm thinking Cipher is my class, because it's useful in so many situations and can fill so many roles. I enjoy dialogue options so I'm going with at least a 15 Resolve. Damage is important, so Might is at least a 15. The class is all about Focus and that takes hits, so attack speed has to be high: 15 Dex.

 

Wood Elf bumps Dex and Res to 16. Background bumps Might to 16 (probably Old Vailia; I'll dump the +1 Int to bump Might). I think I can safely dump Con to 4 to boost Perception; Ciphers have low health anyway so the % minus isn't that many actual points--and it's better to not be hit in the first place.

 

The radical idea that I'd like an opinion on is: can I safely dump Int, to boost Dex? My reasoning is that his AOEs are small to begin with, so he's not hitting more than 2, maybe 3 enemies anyway. And I don't care about duration because I'm regaining Focus so fast, I can just re-cast.

 

Is dumping Int on a cipher (just to 8 or so) to raise Dex to 18-20 foolish, or wise?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Zaruthustran

[Lasci]

Take 16 resolve. I'm pretty certain there's a bunch of resolve option that require 16. At a glance, you can probably dump intelligence. Just don't grab many AoE abilities.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Lasci