Steam vs GoG redemption ?

[Kitsune]

Does anyone know if we are going to be able to download the game through the portal or if that was removed?

[Macrae]

Gog for their DRM free and respect-the-gamer approach.

However, can anyone explain to me how will the updating process be using Gog?

[Mamoulian War]

 

I can't Support steam with good conscience. Giving that you don't truly own your games

 

In the cases of both Steam and GoG, a person purchases a license for a game, not an installer, and not an account. Steam's subscriber agreement relates to their server service, and not the games a person owns in their account - and GoG has its exact equivalent which is their Terms of Use agreement, in which GoG reserves the same rights to terminate an account, and to change their Terms of Use without warning and at their discretion.

 

So Steam game purchases are owned by the purchaser in the same sense that games were owned prior to digital distribution, and in the same sense that a game purchased through GoG is owned. In all cases, the purchaser receives a license, which is the sole possession of the one who purchased it.

 

 

The difference is, that if GoG "terminates" your account, you can still play your games.

[Mamoulian War]

Gog for their DRM free and respect-the-gamer approach.

 

However, can anyone explain to me how will the updating process be using Gog?

 

You have to download once in a while a standalone patch from their site. Well until GoG Galaxy optional client will be released. The you should be able to update all your games with one click (or two ).

[Delicieuxz]

 

So Steam game purchases are owned by the purchaser in the same sense that games were owned prior to digital distribution, and in the same sense that a game purchased through GoG is owned. In all cases, the purchaser receives a license, which is the sole possession of the one who purchased it.

 

 

No. Because the other part of the equation is the practical enforcement of it being a service*, which can only be done with drm. With a drm free game it doesn't matter what they say, if you get banned or if GOG goes out of business or whatever, because you can always install from a backup and there is nothing that can be done to stop you doing so; to all practical considerations you own a product and aren't just leasing a licence to play. That is very seldom true for a game bought from Steam.

 

*Also depends where you are. We're lucky enough to have software defined legally as a product rather than a service here, which puts it under the Consumer's Guarantee Act. Hence even Steam is forced to have a proper refund policy, though we're about the only place to get it.

 

 

The matter of what a person owns is technical, and in the case of games purchased from Steam or GoG, the possession is identical: A license to access and use the software of a game that is the property of the purchaser. If a person is locked out of their Steam account for some unknown reason, they can download a copy of their games from elsewhere and use them. If a person is locked out of their GoG account for some unknown reason, the same applies. Having a GoG account doesn't mean that a person has downloaded all their GoG games and backed them up - and even if they have, the matter of whether they own their games or not is the same: they own a license to access and use the software.

 

GoG and Steam are license resellers. They hold no say or ownership over the licenses that they sell, once they sell them. Both GoG and Steam reserve the right in their terms of service to cancel a person's account with them. That will not change the non-physical entitlements that are the game licenses a person owns, and a person may legally continue to access the software for which they've purchased a license. How they go about doing that is up to them.

[Delicieuxz]

 

The difference is, that if GoG "terminates" your account, you can still play your games.

 

 

So can a person with games purchased through Steam. I own a lot of GoG games, which I don't download and back up. If I ever had no access to my GoG account, I'd be in the very same position as I would if I had no access to my Steam account. Yet I'd still possess a license to legally play all games in either account.

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

The difference is, that if GoG "terminates" your account, you can still play your games.

 

 

So can a person with games purchased through Steam. I own a lot of GoG games, which I don't download and back up. If I ever had no access to my GoG account, I'd be in the very same position as I would if I had no access to my Steam account. Yet I'd still possess a license to legally play all games in either account.

 

 

I was talking about your purchased and backed up games and not games which can be obtained by some copyright infringing methods. For obtaining them that way, you do not need Steam nor GoG accounts at all. Terminated Steam account means, that you have lost all means how to install your backed up games again, without using some "shady" behaviour. With terminated GoG account you can still freely use all your backups without need to visit darknet.

 

If you do not download and back up games you purchased, it's your own decision. Don't blame the middle man.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[Delicieuxz]

 

I was talking about your purchased and backed up games and not games which can be obtained by some copyright infringing methods. For obtaining them that way, you do not need Steam nor GoG accounts at all. Terminated Steam account means, that you have lost all means how to install your backed up games again, without using some "shady" behaviour. With terminated GoG account you can still freely use all your backups without need to visit darknet.

 

If you do not download and back up games you purchased, it's your own decision. Don't blame the middle man.

 

 

If a person owns a license to the game, it isn't infringement for them to download and play the software through other means. The license of a game is to access the software. The software is the software no matter where it is obtained from. If a person owns a license that grants access, that stays with them regardless of whether they're locked out of an account or not. Even when you have access to your GoG account, your property is still that same license, and not the instance of packaged-software that you download.

 

There is nothing shady about downloading a game which a person owns a license to play, from a torrent or misc file host. It's precisely the same level of legality as downloading it from a personal GoG or Steam account. A person can back up their purchase receipts for proof of ownership, and I'm pretty sure both Steam and GoG email them on the point of sale. I know I at least have all my Steam receipts stored in an email folder.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Delicieuxz

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

I was talking about your purchased and backed up games and not games which can be obtained by some copyright infringing methods. For obtaining them that way, you do not need Steam nor GoG accounts at all. Terminated Steam account means, that you have lost all means how to install your backed up games again, without using some "shady" behaviour. With terminated GoG account you can still freely use all your backups without need to visit darknet.

 

If you do not download and back up games you purchased, it's your own decision. Don't blame the middle man.

 

 

If a person owns a license to the game, it isn't infringement for them to download and play the software through other means. The license of a game is to access the software. The software is the software no matter where it is obtained from. If a person owns a license that grants access, that stays with them regardless of whether they're locked out of an account or not. Even when you have access to your GoG account, your property is still that same license, and not the instance of packaged-software that you download.

 

There is nothing shady about downloading a game which a person owns a license to play, from a torrent or misc file host. It's precisely the same level of legality as downloading it from a personal GoG or Steam account.

 

 

Man can say, that with the termination of account, your right to licensed material is revoked as well

 

EDIT: Well at least in the countries, where EULAs are not illegal by default

Edited March 26, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[Gauge]

Steam.

DRM is not required for developers to use on steam.  Even when steam DRM is optionally used, it is not intrusive or limiting to me.  The convenience of steam overshadows any negative from the extremely minimalist DRM.

[LeftHandedGuitarist]

I umm-ed and ahh-ed a bit, but went with GoG in the end. I just love them. Steam would offer some additional features but I'm not sure that they're always a benefit.

[Garasou]

While I love GoG  the easy of use of Steam when dealing with games who are still being supported (and thus patched) tipped the choice in it's favor.

[BlackyNoir]

Definitely on GoG:

 

- no DRM of course, contrary to Steam

- very fast downloads (when Wasteland 2 was released, I got it faster on GoG than people through Steam)

- better customer service

 

Of course the Steam preload and auto patch are very nice features, and hopefully GoG will propose those in the near future. But right now, it's still GoG.

[vv221]

If a person owns a license to the game, it isn't infringement for them to download and play the software through other means. The license of a game is to access the software. The software is the software no matter where it is obtained from.

You’re wrong on this one. A game bought on Steam gives you the right to access and play the Game *via Steam*. Same goes for GOG. That’s part of the license nobody reads and everybody accepts anyway

You’re not in any way legally allowed to get the game from *any* other source than the one you bought a license from.

That you’re morally okay to do so is your choice, but it is still out of the law.

 

Owning a game on disc doesn’t grant you the right to download it from GOG nor Steam (or any other platform for that matter). Same goes the other way around for a game owned on any platform.

Edited March 26, 2015 by vv221

[Mamoulian War]

 

Owning a game on disc doesn’t grant you the right to download it from GOG nor Steam (or any other platform for that matter). Same goes the other way around for a game owned on any platform.

 

 

On this one, you are actually wrong too. In lot of countries, especially in Europe, it is legal, to make single backup of the game you have purchased for personal use. Because the disc are often made into coasters by intrusive DRM, you can without fear download backup for you. DRM circumvention is not illegal in EU, unlike in USA.

 

And Whatever EULA might say, boxed games are still handled in EU like physical goods. That means EULA is invalid, if you are unable to read it through precisely before you open the packaged goods.

 

Digital goods are not covered by that, because when you sign into Direct Download service, the EULA is accessible to you before the purchase. Unfortunately I do not know nothing about legality of back up of DRMed digital goods in EU, because I do not have any experience with it. I shop only DRM free digital goods, so I never looked into that matter.

[Mungri]

I went with Steam but I also have an extra copy. But Im gonna ebay that.

[Maviarab]

You would need a lot of money and a very good solicitor/lawyer but ultimately, when you buy media, you own nothing except the packaging it comes in.  he is correct in saying you pay for the 'right to use'.

 

Therefore legally, once you have 'paid for this right', it irrelevant where you then get a copy from.  As for Steam, again, just DRM wrapped up fancy so idiot sheep don't know any better and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.  I'm on FB/TWitter, I do not need a gaming social media site that locks you out of half of your games if your net is down as you need to have Steam running in order to start said game.  Utterly crazy how people actually accept that.  Again...the masses follow.  Just because something is popular, does not make it good.  Take a look at the music industry right now.

 

If you buy a film on DVD, and then download a BD copy, strictly speaking, you have already paid for the 'right to watch'.....you are breaking no laws.  Any good lawyer in the European Courts would batter down any media company.

 

As for the poll...GoG all the way (even though I bought the physical collectors edition).....Steam is just DRM.  It was fine when it was for Valve games only, but now every idiot and their uncle uses it as simple cost effective DRM...thus they lose my money.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Maviarab

[Kaldaien]

It's pretty much a no-brainer, since I have a DRM free physical disc-based copy that will arrive sometime this century, Steam is the platform I would want my digital copy on. Achievements, cloud storage, pre-load, it all just works beautifully with Steam and the only price you pay is an Internet connection once every 2 weeks to validate your software license.

[Delicieuxz]

 

If a person owns a license to the game, it isn't infringement for them to download and play the software through other means. The license of a game is to access the software. The software is the software no matter where it is obtained from.

You’re wrong on this one. A game bought on Steam gives you the right to access and play the Game *via Steam*. Same goes for GOG. That’s part of the license nobody reads and everybody accepts anyway

You’re not in any way legally allowed to get the game from *any* other source than the one you bought a license from.

That you’re morally okay to do so is your choice, but it is still out of the law.

 

Owning a game on disc doesn’t grant you the right to download it from GOG nor Steam (or any other platform for that matter). Same goes the other way around for a game owned on any platform.

 

 

No, I was correct in saying that the Steam subscriber agreement and the GoG terms of use don't hold any influence over the ownership or use of the game licenses which a person purchases through those 3rd-party distributors. The EULA for games are specific to each individual game, and are written by the publisher of each game. They are not associated with a digital distributor (except for MMOs) and their conditions have no requirements for avenue of play.

 

Steam and GoG have no part ownership in the game licenses they sell, once they're sold - they become the property of the purchaser, and so have no authority over how they're accessed. Also, when these retailers make their wholesale license purchases from publishers, they receive special IP rights from the publisher regarding them. They buy them, then they sell them.

 

For every game on Steam and GoG, there is a EULA, which is not the Steam subscriber agreement, nor the GoG terms of use. The subscriber agreement, and the terms of use regard only the server services which Steam and GoG run, including the ability to log in to them.

 

A person's legal rights regarding their purchased games are defined only between the publisher, and the purchaser - and the publisher's terms are stipulated within the EULA they write,  which is accessible separately from digital services (on Steam pages, each game's EULA is accessible from its store page).

 

It is legal to access licensed software for which a use license is owned, without conditions on where the software downloads from.

[MiburosWolf]

Steam! I wanted to be able to use remote installation at work so I could get home and start playing straight away

 

But it's not appearing on my steam list at the moment, even though it says it's in my library. I dunno why

[LordStarlight]

GoG, for being unequivocally DRM-free more than anything.

[Emc2]

Most likely Steam because of the automatic updates, have not bought the game yet because I won't have time to play It in a while. Looking at the steam stats, PoE seems to have around 30k players online, which is not bad at all for the first hours. And the forum traffic has nearly got a new record apparently, with 4500 people online. I'm getting timed out constantly. Damn post-release hype...

[physicalist]

I went with Steam because of the achievements and because I can still buy the DRM free version at a later date if I want.

[Jedi21]

Steam, autoupdates are too tempting )

[vv221]

 

Owning a game on disc doesn’t grant you the right to download it from GOG nor Steam (or any other platform for that matter). Same goes the other way around for a game owned on any platform.

On this one, you are actually wrong too. (…)

 

You would need a lot of money and a very good solicitor/lawyer but ultimately, when you buy media, you own nothing except the packaging it comes in. he is correct in saying you pay for the 'right to use'.

 

(…)

 

No, I was correct in saying that the Steam subscriber agreement and the GoG terms of use don't hold any influence over the ownership or use of the game licenses which a person purchases through those 3rd-party distributors. The EULA for games are specific to each individual game, and are written by the publisher of each game. They are not associated with a digital distributor (except for MMOs) and their conditions have no requirements for avenue of play.

(…)

 

Looks like my infos were either outdated or plain wrong.

Thank you for the correction!

Edited March 27, 2015 by vv221