[392] Enemy casters need to be more threatening

[wanderon]

Personally, I'm a _very_ big fan of 2nd Ed AD&D Spellcasters. I admit that they might be slightly overpowered, but they present at worst a worthy tactical challenge -- without protective spells, they're sunk; with them, they're dangerous. The glass cannon is a good one. 

 

The corresponding lack so far of contingencies -- stoneskin, etc -- in PE is a bit sad. Mages don't really feel like they're much of a threat. In fact, combat as a whole could be a bit more engaging, but maybe I haven't turned the difficulty slider up enough. I'm sure there's a lot more variability in the actual game. 

 

One thing that does annoy me is the fact that it's very hard to spy a group of enemies, and effectively get your spellcasters to simultaneously ambush them with the usual mix of fireball-web. What tends to happen is that by the time they start casting, the enemy are standing next to your front line...

 

Yeah sort of like bringing a gatling gun to a fist fight once you get past the flying bullets they're not so tough...

[Lephys]

While BG2 spell battles are out, the enemy mages in 392 are kind of disappointing. If you're rocking firearms, they're chunked in the opening. Arcane Veil also does not protect against firearms, and I don't think there's any "opening move" currently in the game that would defend a mage from that. Pelting the mage with arrows has much the same effect, only takes a little longer. They're just too fragile and too easy to interrupt.

 

Which is kind of amusing given all the bellyaching over 'muscle wizards' a while back, actually.

 

Something should be done to make enemy spellcasters more dangerous. They oughtn't be that easy to neutralize.

As others have said, ideally, you could start combat with a spell/ability. It's fine that you can't go around buffing "outside of combat," but I don't think starting combat because you cast a buff (giving away your Wizard's position or something) would be ridiculous.

 

But, also, it might be prudent to allow for one spell/slower-than-instant-ability to be "prepped" outside of combat, so that when people jump out of the shrubberies, you could throw up a protective spell, or toss a fireball, etc. I mean, if someone can leap out of a bush and firearm you (a Wizard) in the face, why should you be limited to "Oh crap! Give me like 4 seconds, guys!"?

 

*shrug*. Anywho... if it doesn't happen, not the end of the world. But, it definitely seems like there's some room there for "start-of-combat" spells and such. Then, in regard to AI, even if it was just completely random, you'd have SOME enemy mages toss up some kind of barrier at the beginning of combat, and OTHER enemy mages throw out debuffs or offensive spells at the beginning of combat (or sometimes just not use anything right at the beginning of combat). It's always a tradeoff. If they put up a missile barrier, for example, then they've removed an option for you (just pelt them with arrows/bullets real quick!), but now they can't cast again for a bit. You still have other options, like charging them with melee people, or focusing on other foes to start with, etc.

[constantine]

Player controlled Wizards are a good and useful character, but yeah as Karkarov said, they are squishy as (and also not super fun to play either, but yeah). That is the problem though, because of their squishiness - enemy wizards are super vulnerable to being just flat out taken out at the start of combat which doesn't feel very Infinity Engine. They should at least offer some more resistance than that.

 

They can probably make it a little bit better with AI tweaks and stuff, but some of the problems are systemic/design.

 

To be honest there, in BG1 my squad always aimed for the enemy casters first. As a result, in most fights I d taken them out before they could cast almost any spell, due to subsequent interrupts.

 

In BG2 that was harder to accomplish due to higher lv protection spells and contigencies, but there were the Inquisitor Paladins that could cast an uber Dispel that coupled with a counterspell once needed would leave wizards defenseless. Or you could go rock-paper-scissors with counters or (my personal favourite) throw a frenzied berserker at the wizard and keep the rest of the party at safe distance until the brute is done wasting the mage.

 

 

But PoE is low to mid lvs BG, so closer to BG1, and as I mentioned above *my* experience there was very similar to what you describe with casters in PoE.

 

But then, that's not a good thing. I would really like enemy casters to prove greater challenge.

[JohnnySideburns]

I would suggest a slight alteration of the mechanics of Arcane veil.

Make it a passive that reads and functions something along the lines of:

 

Arcane Veil - Passive. When the wizard is attacked by a non firearm arcane veil activates raising the wizards deflection significantly for x seconds, x times per encounter.

 

this way the veil will automatically protect the wizard (kinda like a condition) it will still block firearms, yet firearms wont trigger it so they can still be used, but it is not as easy to abuse.

[JohnnySideburns]

On another note, a way to give wizards more impact could be to simply beef up the spells (quite a lot) but also vastly increase the casting time. So every time a spell is cast it has a huge impact on the battle, and as soon as you see the wizard starting to cast a spell it will build tension and you will need to get him down and or interrupt him before it is too late.

[archangel979]

On another note, a way to give wizards more impact could be to simply beef up the spells (quite a lot) but also vastly increase the casting time. So every time a spell is cast it has a huge impact on the battle, and as soon as you see the wizard starting to cast a spell it will build tension and you will need to get him down and or interrupt him before it is too late.

Seeing clerics in bg1 start casting spells was always high tension as there was either hold person or rigid thinking incoming and both spells were bad news. And they were hard to take down in time.

It is not only about wizards.

Edited January 24, 2015 by archangel979

[CottonWolf]

I would suggest a slight alteration of the mechanics of Arcane veil.

Make it a passive that reads and functions something along the lines of:

 

Arcane Veil - Passive. When the wizard is attacked by a non firearm arcane veil activates raising the wizards deflection significantly for x seconds, x times per encounter.

 

this way the veil will automatically protect the wizard (kinda like a condition) it will still block firearms, yet firearms wont trigger it so they can still be used, but it is not as easy to abuse.

 

I'm sure it's far too late to change the way that it works, but this is a genuinely great idea.