I figured it out... Why RPGs seem to be going down hill.

[Luridis]

Meshugger, you're looking like a real nut so...

 

 

Of course, that pretty much applies to anyone who can pull Tom Petty songs out of the blue.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Luridis

[Meshugger]

I figure myself as an artist too edgy for a patreon account.

[Luridis]

I figure myself as an artist too edgy for a patreon account.

 

LOL Well, you know David Firth didn't think his stuff would get any attention due to its edginess. No, no, that's dark, bizarre and disturbing... yea. Notch and Flappy Bird too! You just never know what's going to create the World of Warcraft effect.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Luridis

[Nonek]

I have mainly one problem with Skyrim specifically, and it's not the streamlining and dumbing down that increase with each new ES release, it's simply the lack of interactivity, which is the true strength of this medium. True you can create any character you wish, forge them a backstory, decide how they will react according to their imaginary personality, what they favoured in terms of weapons and style etcetera, you can do all this and the game will not acknowldege any of it. So the question arises, do I need the game to do all this character building, no I don't. Unless my choices are acknowledged in game at some point, then really they're a little worthless, especially in an RPG.

 

This lack of interactivity bothers me, I know that the regressive gaming press despise interactivity as it's catering to us disgusting consumers, but really it is the strength of the medium and to my mind should be prioritised. We don't want to be told, preached at or watch a graphical picture book, we wish to interact, this is key to me.

 

Such interactivity seems fairly simple to implement in some titles: Torment gives us a different story and approaches based on stats, conversations and accomplishments. Alpha Protocol and New Vegas also both transform and adapt to ones playstyle and choices, giving us consequences, acknowledgements and little nods. When Omen Deng commented on my choice of attire in Taipei, that was appreciated and a nice moment of interactivity, or when Marburg complimented me and seemed honestly impressed.

 

Personally until Skyrim offers me more than an unreactive hiking simulation, I will not be that enchanted with it i'm afraid.

 

Edit: Personal opinion and whatnot.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Nonek

[HoonDing]

Town guards react on weapons you wield, your character's race, even gender. They even comment based on how far you developed certain skills. And there's plenty of other interactivity in the game. E.g. piss off certain factions/NPCs and you get assassins behind your back. There are even NPCs who come to duel you once you reach a certain level of prowess.

 

Why do you lie?

Edited December 30, 2014 by HoonDing

[Luridis]

Town guards react on weapons you wield, your character's race, even gender. They even comment based on how far you developed certain skills. And there's plenty of other interactivity in the game. E.g. piss off certain factions/NPCs and you get assassins behind your back. There are even NPCs who come to duel you once you reach a certain level of prowess.

 

Why do you lie?

 

Probably has to do with the shallow nature of it.

 

How do NPCs know what my conjuration or enchanting skill is? How do they know I am in the Dark Brotherhood when it's a super secret society that kills you if you reveal its secrets? Why are they telling me they don't like those clunky two handed weapons either while they're wearing an iron greatsword on their back?

 

Imagine if people passed Frodo on the road to Mordor and said, "Hey, I heard that you're carrying that horrid weapon of the enemy to Mt. Doom to destroy it... Good man!" <- That's what the writing in Skyrim is like. Which is why I really do wonder if the writer(s) finished highschool, or have read any sort of literature at all.

 

Probably my biggest pet peeve in the game is this little gem: What have you got for sale?

Edited December 30, 2014 by Luridis

[Gromnir]

admitted off the rails:

 

 

 

 

if it were not so cumbersome, am suspecting amentep could use the video as his permanent signature

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Nonek]

 

Town guards react on weapons you wield, your character's race, even gender. They even comment based on how far you developed certain skills. And there's plenty of other interactivity in the game. E.g. piss off certain factions/NPCs and you get assassins behind your back. There are even NPCs who come to duel you once you reach a certain level of prowess.

 

Why do you lie?

 

Probably has to do with the shallow nature of it.

 

How do NPCs know what my conjuration or enchanting skill is? How do they know I am in the Dark Brotherhood when it's a super secret society that kills you if you reveal its secrets? Why are they telling me they don't like those clunky two handed weapons either while they're wearing an iron greatsword on their back?

 

Imagine if people passed Frodo on the road to Mordor and said, "Hey, I heard that you're carrying that horrid weapon of the enemy to Mt. Doom to destroy it... Good man!" <- That's what the writing in Skyrim is like. Which is why I really do wonder if the writer(s) finished highschool, or have read any sort of literature at all.

 

Probably my biggest pet peeve in the game is this little gem: What have you got for sale?

 

 

Yes this is part of the problem, along with my Archmage/DoverSole/Grand High Poobah being sent on the same fetch quests, and treated exactly the same as at the beginning of the game. It's as shallow as possible, which is probably why I generally prefer the implementation of pre-defined protagonists, whom have a place and a position in the world.

[omphaloskepsis]

Yes this is part of the problem, along with my Archmage/DoverSole/Grand High Poobah being sent on the same fetch quests, and treated exactly the same as at the beginning of the game. It's as shallow as possible, which is probably why I generally prefer the implementation of pre-defined protagonists, whom have a place and a position in the world.

A lot of these issues are the lack of a reasonable faction system (which has steadily devolved since Daggerfall).  You don't have to force a set protagonist if you can differentiate a few variables: is a member of X, rank in X, is X public/private/known to this individual?  Modders have been able to mitigate psychic guards and a fair amount of other NPC issues, so the problem is that BGS isn't interested in doing that work, not that the design itself necessitates it.

 

Another factor is the fans.  Having choices and consequences "limits" gameplay, and a fair number of people hate that (from what I've seen in forum posts).  So BGS has to choose to make one side or the other happy, and they seem to keep deciding against the RPG contingent.  

 

Though as far as the "leader of an organization" trope goes, I wouldn't mind that whole concept getting tossed, or becoming much less common.  I don't know if devs are trying to satisfy a power fantasy itch or what, but it rarely makes sense to me that an active character would become a faction leader.  Even disregarding the silliness of petty fetch quests, there's the problem of an adventurer having the time, experience, and inclination to sit at a desk and manage an organization.  I don't see why they can't just stop at "you've become a respected member of the faction" and leave it at that.

[Luridis]

 

Yes this is part of the problem, along with my Archmage/DoverSole/Grand High Poobah being sent on the same fetch quests, and treated exactly the same as at the beginning of the game. It's as shallow as possible, which is probably why I generally prefer the implementation of pre-defined protagonists, whom have a place and a position in the world.

A lot of these issues are the lack of a reasonable faction system (which has steadily devolved since Daggerfall).  You don't have to force a set protagonist if you can differentiate a few variables: is a member of X, rank in X, is X public/private/known to this individual?  Modders have been able to mitigate psychic guards and a fair amount of other NPC issues, so the problem is that BGS isn't interested in doing that work, not that the design itself necessitates it.

 

Another factor is the fans.  Having choices and consequences "limits" gameplay, and a fair number of people hate that (from what I've seen in forum posts).  So BGS has to choose to make one side or the other happy, and they seem to keep deciding against the RPG contingent.  

 

Though as far as the "leader of an organization" trope goes, I wouldn't mind that whole concept getting tossed, or becoming much less common.  I don't know if devs are trying to satisfy a power fantasy itch or what, but it rarely makes sense to me that an active character would become a faction leader.  Even disregarding the silliness of petty fetch quests, there's the problem of an adventurer having the time, experience, and inclination to sit at a desk and manage an organization.  I don't see why they can't just stop at "you've become a respected member of the faction" and leave it at that.

 

 

That's precisely why people make the "catering to casuals" argument. It really is impossible to know how true that is overall, but it is fair to see how one could make such an argument.

[omphaloskepsis]

That's precisely why people make the "catering to casuals" argument. It really is impossible to know how true that is overall, but it is fair to see how one could make such an argument.

I've seen dozens of discussions about freedom to do whatever you want at the BGS forums, and for everybody who wants C&C, there's somebody who doesn't.  That's in the short term when the game is most popular.  After things settle down all that's left is the "hardcore" C&C crowd.  I've tried to make the freedom-from vs freedom-to argument (i.e. freedom to walk out on a busy highway isn't the same as freedom from the consequences of doing it) several times, but it never takes.

 

Certain things always seem to come up with any popular game:

The game needs guns.

The game needs multiplayer.

The game needs unlimited "freedom".  (only for sandbox games, obviously)

 

And people seem to want unlimited cosmetic customization, but couldn't care less about the mechanics.  If a dagger, a sword, a bow, and a magic spell do the same thing, it's fine as long the effects are next gen.  Why?  Because otherwise it's redundant, or nostalgia, or whatever.  But at least there are certain keywords that immediately identify irrational posters.

 

I'm all for providing options (such as an easy setting) for people who want casual play, but it would be nice to get thrown a bone once in a while.