Why the current loot system doesn't work

[ctn2003]

  A few backers have been expressing their dislike towards the current look system in Pillars of Eternity and i also do not think it work's. Becase it really hurts the sense of reward from killing a tough enemy then get 2 gold for your trouble and not the leather armor or plate mail that they were clearing wearing or the weapons that they cleary had. The Skyrim MMORPG has the same issue and was very frustrating. i was pretty upset when i killed a one of the gourds with chain mail just to find 1 gold when he was clearly wearing chain mail and a helmit. Why can i pick up the skin of a dead specter in the dungens in the second area, why can i pick up spider sacks but not the armor peaple are clearing wearing?   This has to be addressed at some point and first time players might be thrown off when they start a evil party at some point to find no reward for being evil = no reasen to even have a reputation system because you'll always be generally good because theirs no reward for killing hardly at all in the game.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2014 by ctn2003

[ISC]

it really hurts the sense of reward from killing a tough enemy

 

This is it. It does not have to be solved by 100% wysiwyg loot, but that's one possibility. Another is of course exp. But the key point here is that people are motivated by direct feedback and rewards for doing challenging stuff. A good example of this is going to the gym to work out - the reason this doesn't work for a lot of people is the lack of directly feedbacking reward for the effort, and for the one's who are capable of focusing on delayed gratification it is still often a chore to get there. Of course, you do get quest rewards, but that is not always in connection with any specific challenge you put yourself through, and it is difficult to motivate making a game which is largely about combat in which it is at least equally meaningful to circumvent combat. 

[Jon of the Wired]

To be fair, if you kill someone wearing armor, that armor probably isn't in great shape anymore.

[Clean&Clear]

To be fair, if you kill someone wearing armor, that armor probably isn't in great shape anymore.

 

That's not an argument in case there is no item damaging mechanic in the game. Your armor would eventually get damaged too in the real world, but the game does not contain this mechanic. So either way all of the equipment (including yours) would have to be subjected to damage, or none. The latter is the case for this game.

[ctn2003]

To be fair, if you kill someone wearing armor, that armor probably isn't in great shape anymore.

In Icewind Dale they seem to be a great shape. lol

[ctn2003]

 

To be fair, if you kill someone wearing armor, that armor probably isn't in great shape anymore.

 

That's not an argument in case there is no item damaging mechanic in the game. Your armor would eventually get damaged too in the real world, but the game does not contain this mechanic. So either way all of the equipment (including yours) would have to be subjected to damage, or none. The latter is the case for this game.

 

Thank god that never made it in the game. I dont like that in any game elder scrolls or fallout.

[Katarack21]

 

 

To be fair, if you kill someone wearing armor, that armor probably isn't in great shape anymore.

 

That's not an argument in case there is no item damaging mechanic in the game. Your armor would eventually get damaged too in the real world, but the game does not contain this mechanic. So either way all of the equipment (including yours) would have to be subjected to damage, or none. The latter is the case for this game.

 

Thank god that never made it in the game. I dont like that in any game elder scrolls or fallout.

 

I agree. I'm also glad that the permanent character death got made optional. Both of those would make me very frustrated, very quickly.

[YunikoYokai5]

So basically you want the enemies to drop what they are wearing when they die? I'm pretty sure that loot system has already been discussed (very thoroughly) and the devs have answered that thread as well. Didn't the devs say that the know the loot system isn't dropping everything because they need to tweek some things?

 

Good news everyone: Today I fixed an issue that prevented creatures from dropping their equipped weapons and secondary weapon set. 

 

 

I think that means that enemies should be dropping their weapons, they might be working on the armour bit still perhaps if this doesn't include it. You might see this in the next patch, if the devs are happy they have scripted everything properly. 

 

If I have misunderstood, I apologise!

[Gairnulf]

Josh Sawyer also said that they will be making a pass through all npcs to assure they are dropping their equipped items.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69428-what-you-see-is-what-you-get-loot-system/page-9?do=findComment&comment=1542975

Edited December 14, 2014 by Gairnulf

[Captain Shrek]

I have always had a problem with looting in RPGs. But I must admit what follows is an opinion and not an objective fact.

 

Looting has always been a mainstay of RPGs. Who doesn't like the drop of the Nameless light? But I have several problems:

 

1) Drop of mundane objects of little value.

2) +X weapons/armors

3) Enemies with gold coins

 

 

1) Mundane objects

 

RPGs are simulations of heroic adventures and quests. Most battles are supposed to happen in hostile confines where there is constant threat and danger. In that scenario, it is not hard to explain why the PCs would not stoop to rob every corpse. Maybe time is a factor? Or there is a danger of letting down guard? etc. This makes much more game sense, as robbing everything that an enemy carries, can easily break or desensitize game economy. It would be actually much more sensible if weapons of practical use and armour were relatively rare like they are in the real world.  As  most RPGs ignore this (Except the Gothic games), they suffer from ridiculous design issues. 

 

What is the solution? 

 

Take the Gothic route. Make good weapons and armour something that can only be obtained with great effort. Enemies hardly ever drop anything other than monsters dropping crafting resources and that too if you have the relevant skills. This will NOT make the game uninteresting as some might imagine. If the combat is bad enough so that I have to be bribed every step of the way with loot, then the loot is not going to rescue the fun anyway. Especially terrible loot at that. 

 

2)  +x weapons

 

The laziest route of a designer in creating loot is the +x weapon. Seriously? I mean it takes effort to write the story and a contextual story for loot to be interesting. When you get a +1 sword it kills that the fundamental thrill of a magic item, making it a mundane object as this particular object has nothing tying it to the lore of the game other than shallow description "magical". Magic should always sound enchanting and resonate with the lore. PoE has 'soul' magic, so all the magical items should explain why they have a certain kind of power. Bonus points if no two magical items are the same. There should always be a story reason to avail these things and their placement should reflect that reason. 

 

3) Gold drops

 

In most RPGs I play, the gold drop is level scaled. As in, tougher enemies carry more gold. This ****ty idea needs to die for several reasons. Gold is NOT a good currency and hardly would a character with common sense carry that much stuff in his pockets (1000 GP, yeah, right). Now, it *would* make sense that the gold you pick up is the abstraction of things you robbed off corpses. but that can be dealt way better for example terminating every combat encounter with a small pop up telling you how much gold you earned from it. It would also make sense that the gold you earn is miniscule (for reasons mentioned earlier) thus preserving some sensible economy in the game. 

 

Thus, to summarize:

 

No trivial loot.

Magical objects rare and meaningful.

Less gold more story. 

[fgalkin]

 

 

To be fair, if you kill someone wearing armor, that armor probably isn't in great shape anymore.

 

That's not an argument in case there is no item damaging mechanic in the game. Your armor would eventually get damaged too in the real world, but the game does not contain this mechanic. So either way all of the equipment (including yours) would have to be subjected to damage, or none. The latter is the case for this game.

 

Thank god that never made it in the game. I dont like that in any game elder scrolls or fallout.

 

A better argument is that unless the enemy is exactly your size and shape, the armor isn't going to fit or provide much protection.

 

 

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

To be fair, if you kill someone wearing armor, that armor probably isn't in great shape anymore.

 

That's not an argument in case there is no item damaging mechanic in the game. Your armor would eventually get damaged too in the real world, but the game does not contain this mechanic. So either way all of the equipment (including yours) would have to be subjected to damage, or none. The latter is the case for this game.

 

Thank god that never made it in the game. I dont like that in any game elder scrolls or fallout.

 

A better argument is that unless the enemy is exactly your size and shape, the armor isn't going to fit or provide much protection.

 

 

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

 

If we're going for "realism" that's not entirely true. Male, breastplates, full plate. etc. were made in a standard manner and standard size. "Fitted" suits of armor, made for a particular persons size and shape, were more expensive and thus more rare. Outsize, custom suits of armor--like the full plate Tyrion Lannister has at Casterly Rock in ASoIAF--also existed, but were almost exclusively for kings and extremely wealthy nobility.

 

A hedge knight would have a generic standard suit of plate, and a foot soldier would have a generic standard suit of mail, bandits and such usually wore leather unless they stolen some armor (from blacksmiths, caravans, whatever).

[Lephys]

^ Still, it's funny when you kill an Aumaua, take his armor, and equip it to your female Orlan.