Monk fighting animation

[mightyjules]

How much variety do the monk fighting animations have? In BG I and II they were quite lame! I do not expect backflips or high coreographed motion capturing. But a bit more martial art would be nice!

[Leferd]

There are actually some gameplay videos posted on YouTube specifically concerning the monk that you can view. These should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

[Sensuki]

They don't have any special animations

[Flayeriv]

 

They don't have any special animations

 

At all? Not even for their special abilities?

[Falkon Swiftblade]

They don't have any special animations

 

eff that's so lazy. I hate the whack a mole mentality of making the monk just an extra body to fill space and adjust some #'s behind the scene, but yet we had to raise $100-200k for them to include them in the game. That's the kinda things that really make me so frustrated. Honestly, other than a few minor behind the scenes checks the monk looks just like any generic character. I surely hope they remedy that. I've already sent them an email with step by step instructions of how to rig a char in like 2-20 min from scratch and it includes how to have idles or any movement really easily. 

[Flayeriv]

To be perfectly honest, rather than another Asiatic monk in a European setting, I'd rather see them break out a scholar-priest class. Anyone familiar with manuscript I33 would know that the earliest medieval sword and buckler manual we have depicts a university student and a monk/priest sparring as a means of teaching them self defence - possibly for safety when on pilgramage. That would be a pretty cool idea to see in a game someday.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

The process for animating in unity is pretty easy. I feel like anyone who can sit through an hour tutorial can create anything they want in less than a day. How it fits into their pipeline is another story though. I really was hoping there would be a combination of playstyles for all classes in their animations. So far for the budget they've raised, I'm less than impressed with what they've put out. I'm just really confused because Unity does most of the work for you, and the stuff it doesn't do, there's already free or very cheap rigs out there that's a lot better. Even indie games that are 6 month's in, with one person coding, doing the art, and animation look better than this project so far. I'm not trying to sound like a troll and nit picky, but really it's been over 2 yrs now, and the stuff shown looks like student work at best. I want to remain optimistic though. With as much time that's left, there's still plenty of time to do hundreds of new animations. 

On topic, just out of curiosity Flayeriv, what would distinguish your ideal monk with sword and buckler style from a paladin? I'm ok with them doing something other than martial arts, I just don't want them to change the color of the model and his weapons and call him a monk.

[Flayeriv]

Well the idea of a pilgrimage for a start.

Mechanically you'd be looking at only light armour, and weapon combinations/special features would be focused on having a weapon paired up with a buckler. Combat techniques would focus on a single target and the character would inherently have high skills in knowledges, lore, etc. If you want to keep close to I33, you could have a lot of fun with counters too (I block a strike, I hit you harder), but as it would be focused on dealing with one target, it would also be weaker against groups. Finally, the big institution it's associated with is a university - medieval universities were often founded from religious coin.

So... really it's like a cross between a rogue and a monk connected to learned society more than it is a paladin.

[Quetzalcoatl]

The process for animating in unity is pretty easy. I feel like anyone who can sit through an hour tutorial can create anything they want in less than a day. How it fits into their pipeline is another story though. I really was hoping there would be a combination of playstyles for all classes in their animations. So far for the budget they've raised, I'm less than impressed with what they've put out. I'm just really confused because Unity does most of the work for you, and the stuff it doesn't do, there's already free or very cheap rigs out there that's a lot better. Even indie games that are 6 month's in, with one person coding, doing the art, and animation look better than this project so far. I'm not trying to sound like a troll and nit picky, but really it's been over 2 yrs now, and the stuff shown looks like student work at best. I want to remain optimistic though. With as much time that's left, there's still plenty of time to do hundreds of new animations. 

 

On topic, just out of curiosity Flayeriv, what would distinguish your ideal monk with sword and buckler style from a paladin? I'm ok with them doing something other than martial arts, I just don't want them to change the color of the model and his weapons and call him a monk.

When you make a claim like 'a child could do it better in a day than these so-called professionals have in two years', it helps to back it up with actual evidence in the form of videos and such.

 

Edited November 17, 2014 by Quetzalcoatl

[Flayeriv]

^And like that I'm relatively certain I'm a toddler.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

 

The process for animating in unity is pretty easy. I feel like anyone who can sit through an hour tutorial can create anything they want in less than a day. How it fits into their pipeline is another story though. I really was hoping there would be a combination of playstyles for all classes in their animations. So far for the budget they've raised, I'm less than impressed with what they've put out. I'm just really confused because Unity does most of the work for you, and the stuff it doesn't do, there's already free or very cheap rigs out there that's a lot better. Even indie games that are 6 month's in, with one person coding, doing the art, and animation look better than this project so far. I'm not trying to sound like a troll and nit picky, but really it's been over 2 yrs now, and the stuff shown looks like student work at best. I want to remain optimistic though. With as much time that's left, there's still plenty of time to do hundreds of new animations. 

 

On topic, just out of curiosity Flayeriv, what would distinguish your ideal monk with sword and buckler style from a paladin? I'm ok with them doing something other than martial arts, I just don't want them to change the color of the model and his weapons and call him a monk.

When you make a claim like 'a child could do it better in a day than these so-called professionals have in two years', it helps to back it up with actual evidence in the form of videos and such.

 

 

 

Well, I never said a child could do it in a day, but I have already posted in the threads a few times some suggestions, and I've emailed their lead animator months ago. Without knowing their pipeline specifically, I don't know the best method for them to use, certainly there are much better method's for giving better results in less time.

 

this is an older version of unity, i think 4.2 and beta for 5.0 is out now with even more control.

 

 

 

 

Using cheap/free mocap for motion builder and unity

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tHAXiN0Ffg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5PwBzYrC_I

 

you can check out his channel for several other videos for more complicated things, but still it's much faster and easier since you're not having to rig the characters like you would for old methodology. Not to mention they sell a huge library with the animations already done for like $200 and something like 5,000 animations already done for you. I understand they had a tight budget for the game, but a few hundred $ is way cheaper and faster than what they've hired someone to do so far. Not to mention you can still modify and change the files once they're in the system. The great thing about this method, is you could just put random people in the room with props and have all your animations 90% done in like a week, and not have to use the same rig over and over for every creature and humanoid like the trailers show.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Falkon Swiftblade

[Nonek]

Personally i'd prefer Pankration style fighting, a mix of wrestling and Pugilism, that is distinctively different from eastern martial arts. Including pins, throws and leg sweeps etcetera. Might take too many resources however, especially for a class that will probably not be popular amongst the majority of players.

[Flayeriv]

A pugalist style would be awesome as an unarmed style.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Personally i'd prefer Pankration style fighting, a mix of wrestling and Pugilism, that is distinctively different from eastern martial arts. Including pins, throws and leg sweeps etcetera. Might take too many resources however, especially for a class that will probably not be popular amongst the majority of players.

 

I could see elements of that style fitting into some aspects of the game, though since so much emphasis is on the metallic armor and weapons I don't see how they could withstand the brutality. The style also seems to be more of a submissive style of fighting by overpowering the enemies to the ground, but I don't know how lethal they'd be? It would be a big change of pace for what most monkish styles have been like in games. I think it would benefit the style possibly in the druid class when they shape shift into a creature, and use like the ram strike to stun or confuse the enemies for example.

 

[Falkon Swiftblade]

A pugalist style would be awesome as an unarmed style.

 

Is that the same thing that you see Jackie Chan do against the wooden board with the pegs on it? That would be cool. I think whatever method they'd use it should appear that there is a discipline to it and it's not just a buncha punches and hooks in there. 

[Labadal]

I think something like that would work for turn-based games but not for a game like Pillars of Eternity.

[Lephys]

I want, so badly, to make an XCOM-style medieval fantasy game. Having somewhat-realistic melee pugilist units would be pretty awesome in that.

[Nonek]

 

Personally i'd prefer Pankration style fighting, a mix of wrestling and Pugilism, that is distinctively different from eastern martial arts. Including pins, throws and leg sweeps etcetera. Might take too many resources however, especially for a class that will probably not be popular amongst the majority of players.

 

I could see elements of that style fitting into some aspects of the game, though since so much emphasis is on the metallic armor and weapons I don't see how they could withstand the brutality. The style also seems to be more of a submissive style of fighting by overpowering the enemies to the ground, but I don't know how lethal they'd be? It would be a big change of pace for what most monkish styles have been like in games. I think it would benefit the style possibly in the druid class when they shape shift into a creature, and use like the ram strike to stun or confuse the enemies for example.

 

 

 

How could they withstand the brutality? In the same manner they will withstand it now, by a metaphysical force of will channeling their pain and wounds into furious assaults. Though I would also maybe like to see an armour set made specifically for Monks, light and not really made for stopping blows, but perhaps with areas of strength to block and redirect incoming attacks, something like a lighter Gladiators harness perhaps. Or maybe catechisms of belief and philosophy carved into their flesh by their own hands, lending them a skin as hard as the stoutest mail.

 

As for lethality, man is mortal, it takes only a few pounds of pressure to break bone. To a trained combatant there are many close combat moves available, eye gouging, head butts, throat crushing punch, groin shots, all manner of broken bones, dislocated limbs, a broken neck, crushed ribs, etcetera.

 

Edit: I've got to admit i'm very curious as to how Monks fit in to the cultures of the gameworld, the other classes seem mainly self explanatory, but Monks i'm just not sure what their role is.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Nonek

[Flayeriv]

If you're going 'legit', there are a variety of martial arts that exist out there designed to fight people in armour. None of them come from Japan. European you're looking at the Fiore and Liechtenauer traditions for anti-armour wrestles. While there is a rather wide range of martial art styles from Japan, some armour can and will prevent a wide range of techniques from being employed by having plates that prevent it from being moved that way (In fact there was some suits of Gothic armour that was designed to prevent knee joints from being twisted).

And Lephys, I would totally get involved in that.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Flayeriv

[Falkon Swiftblade]

 

Edit: I've got to admit i'm very curious as to how Monks fit in to the cultures of the gameworld, the other classes seem mainly self explanatory, but Monks i'm just not sure what their role is.

 

 

 

Honestly, I think they're not sure either. It's clear the dev's are pretty anti religious in their beliefs, so their world view seems to skew a realistic depiction of how a monk class would fit into the lore of their world. They've already stated that the monk is not inherently motivated in the way, such as following a particular deity. They seem to be designing them to be masochists which seems like it would be a better mechanic for the barbarian really.  

[Doppelschwert]

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Monk

There is some lore on monks on this link which is partialy inspired by flagellants, which actually existed in RL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellant

 

They should function more or less like in DnD as anti-casters characters, only that the mechanics are changed in a way that reflects the lore. So they are not asian monks but based on actual european monks, which is quite unique as far as video games go.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Doppelschwert

[constantine]

It's not just the Monk- every weapon/creature has a single attack animation. But I'm pretty sure this is a matter to be addressed by the devs.

 

Just for reference, Baldur's Gate and similar games had 2-3 atk animations per weapon.

[Lephys]

Yeah, I don't know what they're planning versus what's currently implemented, but a handful of animation variety would be pretty lovely.

[Heijoushin]

Hello. I wanted to revive this post since it's something that also bothers me.

Since some time has past and we're near to release, can I once again ask: does the monk has any special animations?

 

I noticed that in the Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition, they gave the monks some kicks, which is awesome. Will PoE have this?

[Luckmann]

It's not just the Monk- every weapon/creature has a single attack animation. But I'm pretty sure this is a matter to be addressed by the devs.

 

Just for reference, Baldur's Gate and similar games had 2-3 atk animations per weapon.

 

Actually, afaik, it used the same attack animations for all the weapons; including swinging a spear overhead like an axe. Until mods fixed it.

 

So it's not really "per weapon".

 

That being said, BG2 did have unarmed monkish attack animations, though, with kicks and whatnot, for monks.