About mages...

[wanderon]

I am not big on mages generally so I have not paid all that much attention to them in the BB but I have a couple questions about them...

 

First of all some spells seem very weak for their level (assuming the descriptions are correct and/or I am reading them properly) -

for instance the spell with the ugly maggot infested face - if I read this right it's effects only last like 2 seconds?? (third level spell)

 

Another question relates to blasts - there is a talent for increasing the damage of them - does this refer to spells that are considered blasts ( I don't recall seeing that word used in relation to a spell description) or does it refer to the use of rods, wands, and scepters? 

 

I'm sure there are other questions but I can't seem to recall them at the moment so I guess this will do for now...

Edited October 27, 2014 by wanderon

[Sensuki]

There used to be one called Penetrating Blast which gave Blasts some DT bypassing, although it only increases their damage by about 0.1-0.2 so it's not really worth investing in.

Wizards are pretty bad at the moment. I think Josh thought Mages in the IE games were too strong and focused on nerfing them to crap. Everything that he thought was too strong in the IE games has been turned into a mediocre or uninviting choice. However Druids ... they're like Wizards except way,way,way,way better.

[wanderon]

So are the blasts referring to rods etc or to blast type spells?

 

Probably one of the main reasons I'm not into mages was I hated the mages in BG2 - specifically the whole buff/debuff nonsense - the mages were fine in BG1 but then I am more into low to mid levels in D&D based games (1-15-ish with the sweet spot in the low teens)

[Sensuki]

Blast is a Wizard passive ability that they get at level 1 which gives a small foe-only AoE attack when they auto-attack with Implements. It can be hard to notice because the AoE attack has no FX to correspond with it. If the game did not have floating damage numbers, I doubt anyone would notice if they didn't check the combat log. Implements are the worst ranged weapons in the game at the moment, so the damage that Blast AoE does is pitiful. The most I've ever seen is 1 damage and that's with the Penetrating Blast talent.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Sensuki

[Lord Vicious]

Implements are the worst ranged weapons in the game at the moment, so the damage that Blast AoE does is pitiful. The most I've ever seen is 1 damage and that's with the Penetrating Blast talent.

 

That is just pathetic.

 

Wizards have indeed been nerfed to crap. There is absolutely no point in playing one at the moment, they are inferior to the more powerful classes in basically every way. And even more - they are a CHORE to play, because they are still burdened with the drawbacks of Vancian spellcasting, despite having lost most of its power.

 

Maybe things change at levels over 8, but Obsidian in their wisdom have decided to not include these levels into the Backer Beta.

 

I only hope their internal beta-testers blow the whistle on this. Otherwise, Wizards will go down the drain on release, which would be a pity since Sorcery is half of the Sword & Sorcery genre. Whereas now, Rogues and Fighters rule all with their pointy sticks.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Lord Vicious

[Sensuki]

I'll add it to my list of further whistle blowing topics for you.

[Karkarov]

I'll add it to my list of further whistle blowing topics for you.

I can see it now.... Sensuki Feedback #732: Mages Suck.

[Sensuki]

Haha, nah in order to do a suggestion I have to at least think of one way to make them better, and I promised the Codex I would use less biting language in my videos etc as many people there feel like I am representing them or something and not helping our cause by doing anything to jeopardize changes getting in

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Wizards have indeed been nerfed to crap. There is absolutely no point in playing one at the moment, they are inferior to the more powerful classes in basically every way. And even more - they are a CHORE to play, because they are still burdened with the drawbacks of Vancian spellcasting, despite having lost most of its power.

 

I emboldened that last sentence. It's absolute truth. The only reason why I typically argue for vancian casting is because it permits unique and powerful spells. It certainly can't be done any other way--or so I thought. I'm on the final sprint of finishing my proposed changes. They are expansive. As a shortlist, they detail:

• Adopting a spell point system.
• Introducing spell scaling.
• Overhauling grimiores by increasing their significance and reworking the memorization mechanic.
• Providing mechanisms for dealing with friendly-fire.
• Completely rebalanced and standardized damage, duration, and casting speed(s).
• Additional talents, misc., etc.

A couple of weeks ago I planned on having it out by now, but it looks like that was too ambitious. Soon, hopefully. I've sent some preliminary stuff to some members. Right now I'm just waiting for a bit of feedback as to avoid being my own echo chamber when assembling the final work.

[forgottenlor]

 

Wizards have indeed been nerfed to crap. There is absolutely no point in playing one at the moment, they are inferior to the more powerful classes in basically every way. And even more - they are a CHORE to play, because they are still burdened with the drawbacks of Vancian spellcasting, despite having lost most of its power.

 

I emboldened that last sentence. It's absolute truth. The only reason why I typically argue for vancian casting is because it permits unique and powerful spells. It certainly can't be done any other way--or so I thought. I'm on the final sprint of finishing my proposed changes. They are expansive. As a shortlist, they detail:

• Adopting a spell point system.
• Introducing spell scaling.
• Overhauling grimiores by increasing their significance and reworking the memorization mechanic.
• Providing mechanisms for dealing with friendly-fire.
• Completely rebalanced and standardized damage, duration, and casting speed(s).
• Additional talents, misc., etc.

A couple of weeks ago I planned on having it out by now, but it looks like that was too ambitious. Soon, hopefully. I've sent some preliminary stuff to some members. Right now I'm just waiting for a bit of feedback as to avoid being my own echo chamber when assembling the final work.

 

 

Those are a lot of suggestions. I doubt they'll drop the Vancian system, so I'm guessing spell points are out, but everything else you suggest sounds very doable. I think rebalancing range, duration, damage, and casting speed wouldn't be all that difficult.

[Cubiq]

If i remember correctly the point of the wizards was that they would be the class with the most diverse spells, at the expense of having spells slightly less powerful.

Perhaps wizards are currently underwhelming beacause they are still missing most of their spells?

[prodigydancer]

If i remember correctly the point of the wizards was that they would be the class with the most diverse spells, at the expense of having spells slightly less powerful.

In other words wizards possess a very large set of useless tools. In yet other words they suck in more ways than any other class.

 

Well, actually it's not funny. It's sad. In BG/BG2 my main character was almost always a mage. I don't want to play a druid. I don't want to play a monk. I want to play an arcane spellcaster like I always do in fantasy games. What's wrong with that?

 

/sigh

[Cubiq]

I have a theory i would need to test, first.

I've seen my mages's spell damage sometimes skyrocket versus certain opponents, and i think it has to do with hitting enemies with the right type of spelldamage. I remember critting a spider with Jolting Touch by +60 damage.

And i also remember critting one of the humans with minor missiles by 25 damage on each missile, so around 75 damage in total.

So my theory is that this is what the wizard will excel at.

Able to adjust the correct damage versust the correct enemies targeting their weakest defenses (deflection, reflex, fortitude, etc.).

Edited October 31, 2014 by Cubiq

[Karkarov]

Haha, nah in order to do a suggestion I have to at least think of one way to make them better, and I promised the Codex I would use less biting language in my videos etc as many people there feel like I am representing them or something and not helping our cause by doing anything to jeopardize changes getting in

Yeah that is a big part of the reason why I took the time in my recent vid to say I liked many of the changes and felt this was the best build yet before I went on to discuss for 25 minutes about how I don't like the new skill system and stats.