Design and execution

[SymbolicFrank]

In some ways, like the spell list, PoE is a carbon copy of Infinity Engine games. In others, it's quite different. This is all expected and fine.

 

But there are discrepancies. By which I mean: the design and execution go in opposite directions.

 

Like, if you want to design a real-time with pause system, you should do just that. But, it turns out that someone thought: "Well, RTwP is crap. Turn-based is the way to go! And we're not going to compromise!" And so we have a turn-based system that is turned into a RTwP system without changing anything. Because, surely, everyone can see that turn-based is the superior system!

 

So, we end up with a total mess. It doesn't work. If you design a turn-based system, make it turn-based! And if you are obliged to make a RTwP system, make one!

 

In the end, the only way we can get a good game is if we now all go beg to please turn it into a turn-based system. And that will make the person who is responsible for this mess very happy: "See! I told you! They don't want any moronic RTwP systems! They really want the great turn-based system I designed!"

 

And the same goes for classes vs. classless.

Edited September 29, 2014 by SymbolicFrank

[rjshae]

Are you speaking from experience with the beta? Do you have a more specific example?

[Tamerlane]

This... sounds a lot more like a criticism of the IE games, which were built entirely around hidden rounds in combat, than it does about PoE.

[Lephys]

You beat me to it, Tamerlane. PoE removed the whole "everyone's dance steps are synched up" orcestration from combat, and somehow it's too turn-based, as compared to the original IE games?

 

I don't follow.

[SymbolicFrank]

"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity."

 

After thinking it over, I think Josh is very sure his system is the Best. And I don't think he distinguishes between systems for RTwP computer games, turn-based computer games, pen and paper or live-action role-playing. There can be only one!

 

While I think each has vastly different requirements, and so requires a vastly different system.

 

Or, at least, that's what I do when designing a project: make the solution match the requirements, instead of the other way around.

Edited October 1, 2014 by SymbolicFrank

[Lephys]

I'm fairly certain Josh has specifically addressed the fact that PnP ideaology must be "translated" into cRPG video game form. In fact, it was in response to a lot of "WHY U NO MAKE GAME BASED DIRECTLY ON AD&D LIKE OLD IE GAMES, SAWYER?!" sentiment.

 

If you'd like to judge people's final product, then fine. But if you're going to judge people's intentions and thought processes, you might want to invest in some accuracy, first. Otherwise, you're just being rude/disrespectful. You might as well just say something like "I'm pretty sure Josh Sawyer can't read, but thinks he can," or "I'm pretty sure Josh sawyer loves to kick puppies."

Edited October 1, 2014 by Lephys

[Azrael Ultima]

... what are you even talking about, Frank?

[Sensuki]

Well he does kind of have a point if he means that PE RTwP feels like PwRT.

[redneckdevil]

Well he does kind of have a point if he means that PE RTwP feels like PwRT.

Well since i havent used pause since ive found the Slow Mode buttons and Speed Up buttons, im gonna have to disagree and say SMwRT

[Sensuki]

I don't use the slow button at all, because it does not help a single bit when testing the default speed of the game.

[Semper]

it's still a valid option if you don't wanna "pause" the action. pressing space bar doesn't help to test the speed of the game either, but breaks the momentum more abruptly. after familiarizing myself with the new set of ability icons i hardly use pause any more.

[Sensuki]

Yes it does because the amount of pausing required in combat is something that needs to be smoothed out. The default slow speed seems to be fine.

[Semper]

the amount of pausing required differs individually, and is heavily influenced by your reaction time/familarity with the system, party composition and/or talent selection - not so because of game speed since v301. imo the speed of action/movement in and out of combat feels comfortable right now. it still suffers from animation feedback, but that's something that is already being worked on.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Semper

[morhilane]

I agree with Semper. Pausing differs per individuals. There is even a big dose of "YMMV", I know people who pretty much plays the IE games in turn-based mode (setting auto-pause at every turn-start). They just love to micro-manage everything, even when it's not necessary.

[Bryy]

Yes it does because the amount of pausing required in combat is something that needs to be smoothed out. The default slow speed seems to be fine.

Yeah, right now, you need to pause in order to even know what the f*** is even going on in battle. This game clearly wants to be turn based.

[Sensuki]

imo the speed of action/movement in and out of combat feels comfortable right now. it still suffers from animation feedback, but that's something that is already being worked on.

Only because v301 is ridiculously easy, you don't even need to try. That won't be the case in future patches.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

^ Yep. You can do the beta with two characters with the others standing on the side lines. At the moment, you're fighting kittens and puppies.

[Lephys]

*gasp*! I don't want to hurt poor little innocent kittens and puppies! T_T

 

Are they infected with something, or being controlled as puppets for evil? Because then I can hurt them.

[Matt516]

No, but they are delicious.

[Lephys]

Kit-cats and hush-puppies, perhaps. Edited October 7, 2014 by Lephys