Class review: The Fighter

[mutonizer]

disclaimer:
All the information below was collected during BB301 in an enclosed environment and tests were conducted between characters only using all weapons and armor available in the beta. Monster balance is therefore irrelevant.

Due to some lack of details on some mechanics as well as poorly detailed tool-tips, I probably got a couple things wrong as well. This is also just me testing **** with the tools we have available (and simple modding to make it easier to recruit adventurers). I also could only do level 1 to 7 reliably, but should be a good start.

I ran tests with all classes to get a good feel for them before judging each class individually, and I plan on trying to do more class specific reviews under similar conditions as time allows, with barbarian being next most likely.

 

 

RACES

• Human: not very relevant for the fighter, maybe for DPS ones.
• Aumaua: Coastal is very good, Island somewhat
• Dwarf: Mountain dwarf is very good though it depends on specific factors, Boreal is irrelevant
• Elf: Pale Elf is also very specific in it's use, Wood elf is decent for some specs, mainly ranged
• Orlan: Hearth Orlan is very nice as it helps the fighter hit and crit hit (though it doesn't work currently?), Wild Orlan is decent for the defense bonus but somewhat situation dependent. 100% team of Hearth Orlan, once their talent works, will probably be something crazy.
• Godlike: Fire, Moon and Nature seem to be decent here, Death not so much

 

ATTRIBUTES

• MIG is irrelevant for a tanky figther, nice for a DPS fighter.
• CON is somewhat decent, depends on the role but even a tanky fighter shouldn't really need to max this out.
• DEX is interesting but again, depends on your role. Mostly irrelevant for tanky, great for DPS.
• PER is god due to it being linked to Accuracy. This needs to be maxed out on everything and everyone.
• INT is good for tanky mainly due to DEF bonus. The Fighter defensive aura doesn't justify high INT on DPS fighters though.
• RES is pretty much useless, apart from duration bonus. Even then, you do things to be used in a pinch, not long term, so I'd ignore it as well unless you go full control fast DPS fighter, then I'd max this instead of DEX to get long duration KDs.

All in all:

• Tanky fighter: Max out PER and INT, 10 in the rest.
• DPS fighter: Max out PER, DEX, then boost up MIG a bit by taking some points from RES and CON to keep your overall resists decent. Do not dump anything or your defenses will tank, leaving you very exposed to spells and effects. RES instead of DEX for your KD freak fast hitter.

 

CORE ABILITIES
Level 1:

• (level 1) Knockdown : This is why you need high ACC on a fighter from PER. On a graze, it's half duration. On a hit, full duration and on a crit, +50% duration. Very situational and for a tanky fighter, more often than not you'll be in animation frames and unable to react properly. Great however on a DPS fighter, especially with fast weapons. As a note, 19RES will max this out to 7.3 seconds, meaning it's still decent on a graze and game over on a crit.
• (level 1) Defender: This should always be on if tanky, especially once boosted, as it allows for 3 engagements, grants boost to DEF, and boosts your engagement range. No reason whatsoever to turn this off, ever. For DPS fighters, it can be nice in a pinch if focused, though personally I'd just switch weapon set to weapon/shield.
• (level 2) Vigorous Defense: Very good 10-15 seconds defensive buff. It doesn't take any animation frame BUT it'll trigger upon your next starting frame so can be tricky to use in a pinch.
• (level 3) Unbending: Very lackluster and bugs out most of the time when used. Maybe double the ratio? Needs to be fixed to get a fair assessment but the value seems low for now.
• (level 4) Armored Grace: Supposed to give you bonus DT, but the whole DT calculation is a bit obscure for now so not sure. It does however apparently reduces your armor speed penalty by 16%, which is quite nice if it works (really not sure here) as it would allow your DPS fighters to switch from Padded to Scale armor without problem.
• (level 5) Weapon Specialization: While interesting in theory, lack of any reliable details on this, no listing on character sheet and no change in listed base damage, make it nearly impossible to test properly.
• (level 6) Confident Aim: This is really good on all fighters but especially on DPS Fighters and it works on KD hit checks as well. This also makes DPS fighters very viable and reliable.
• (level 7) Guardian Stance: The aura is VERY short and you pretty much need to be in base to base contact for it to work with 10 INT. "Could" be worth it for an INT spec tanky fighter if another melee aggros something, or as a DPS fighter to help out your main tank. Aura size really limits it's use however and the penalty to ACC doesn't help either. With the chaos that is combat right now, it's useless but once/if combat sort itself out a bit, might become more very interesting tactically.

 

EXTRA TALENTS

• Bonus KD: 2 KDs per Encounter is usually fine, but later on, who knows. For a more stable build however, Weapon specs far outpace this one.
• Wary Defender: +10DEF/REF/FOR/WILL when Defender's active? Yes please. 100% Must have for any tanky fighter. Too few talents for DPS fighters to grab this.
• Rapid Recovery: "Feels" like a 15-25% increased speed for Endurance regen granted by Constant Recovery. Not worth it. Maybe instead keep the rate but double the amount?
• Weapon focus: Truly godlike. This is a flat +10ACC to weapons in the spec list. Choose carefully and grab soon as you can. My only beef with it is how each list is treated. I feel that this should be lists of logical weapon type, such as Sword focus, Ranged focus, Blunt focus, Piercing focus or something like that. Would make more sense to me, instead of having my Estoc focus fighter, also be focused on Wands and **** like that.
• Hold the Line: With Defender, that's a bit overdoing it so I'd recommend just ignoring it. Could Interesting for a DPS fighter however, especially Reach two (Pike/Staff), sadly, again, too few talents and there are better things to get.
• Defensive Talents: +10 to a specific type of Defense. Can be nice to up a defense that is low due to a dump stat, but otherwise, not really worth it when there are other goodies around and so few talent points.
• Savage Attack: This makes the DPS fighter a true beast and one of the few DPS able to just go into melee and stay there no matter what because of their base high ACC, DEF and Endurance. Combined with Confident Aim past level 5 and a weapon spec, things get a bit crazy.
• Cautious Attack: Totally and utterly useless on a fighter since it's part of the same Modal group as Defender (and Savage Attack, etc) so one will cancel the other. DPS fighters have Defender anyway, so again, useless. Only way to make this useful is to remove it from Defenders Modal group.
• Envenomed Strike: Useless. 3 per rest and damage, even if raw and weapon independent, is sub par (3 ticks of 14 damage at level 4 and doesn't seem to increase with level). Maybe add some kind of long duration heavy snare effect on it to justify the 3 per rest limitation and the investment?
• Fast Runner: Tested a couple races but this doesn't seem to do anything noticeable and didn't see any button to trigger it. Personally I'd convert this into a per rest ability, granting a big speed boost, but we'll see once it's working/fixed.

Overall, Fighter is a good class as it is now, one of the only class that "feels" right, capable of dealing damage reliably while staying in the thick of it, or tanking also very reliably and being very low maintenance. Not a group player and very little group synergy, however his own high ACC, high DEF and high END make him perfect as a very stable party member to build your tactics around.
Because of his front line/melee role, there are no true dump stats for the Fighter I feel, since doing so would really lower one or more of your defenses and leave you exposed to nasty spells or on hit triggered effects. From what I tested, this is the best class regarding balanced Attribute distribution, though RES is of little value in and of itself, only coming into play for KD duration (gain is marginal) and WILL defense. CON is not really being needed either. That said, a fast attacking DPS fighter with maxed out RES and ACC will make crit KDs 10 seconds long, which means -10DEF/REF for 10 seconds on enemies, which means more crits for everyone.

The core abilities are decent though mostly oriented toward a heavy tank fighter type and on their own, leave very little options during character progression. Admittedly this prevents "screwing up", but also means you just don't have any real choices and they all end up the exact same pretty much.
The Extra talents are what they are but overall, you just don't have enough points to goof around and you end up going for the sure things: Weapon spec + Savage Attack for DPS, Wary Defender + Weapon spec for tanky. Due to Savage attack ranged limitation, there is also no real viable ranged fighter builds, the lack of class based damage bonus meaning you'll barely scratch DTs or attack once in a lifetime.

Leather armor on DPS tanks seems to be the most stable DT if you want to keep a good attack ratio but even with something heavier they can do the job. Weapon wise, dual rapier or dual stilettos were the best for fast melee, rapiers winning usually, while for 2hd, anything's good since you'll hit/crit often and therefore overwhelm DT completely, but Estoc really just destroys any opponent more reliably.
For tanking, I could not find any Exceptional Large Shield, so went with Exceptional Medium instead. DEF is all you want here. Hatchet bonus to DEF doesn't seem to work for now, which puts Rapier, for me, at the first place for tanks due to it's very fast attack speed. Once Hatchet works however, it'll do the trick. Anything else is just too slow sadly, making your tank fighter unable to react properly, constantly locked into animation recovery. Armor wise, anything Heavy really.


As a closing note, my run-through with 1 tanky fighter, 1 cleric, 2 fast hitters DPS fighters and 2 slow hitters DPS fighters was one of my easier, most stable, low maintenance and fastest runs yet, with the cleric mostly idling around doing nothing all the way though and fights over in seconds.

 

 

 

 

Feel free to comment using your own tests, point our errors and engage in fighter specific discussion in this thread so that we can centralize some of the feedback on this class.

 

Cheerios.

Edited September 28, 2014 by mutonizer

[Captain Shrek]

Just one query: Why are knockdowns per-anything? Shouldn't these be independent of how often you rest/encounter? Another balance overriding common sense issue? 

[PrimeJunta]

Since a knockdown effectively disables an enemy for the duration, unlimited knockdowns would be way OP.

[Captain Shrek]

I can suggest an in game lore reason: The fighter's guild.

 

Wizard: Knock him down! Knock hi down! He's casting Arcane gas!!

Fighter: Sorry, I can't do it bud.

Wizard: Why not?

Fighter: The guild thinks its too competitive to use more than twice a day. Wouldn't want a disqualification, would I?

[mutonizer]

Personally I'd simply make all per encounter abilities per rest instead, maybe with larger amounts, so that they become tactically interesting resources that you need to manage, rather than just victims of the "button = awesome" syndrome.

 

Though yea, that's all based on the fact that you need to accept the "per xxx" system on something else than wizards/clerics, which I have issues with, but that's beside the point and I'm not going into a 4E debacle debate again.

Edited September 28, 2014 by mutonizer

[Sensuki]

Yeah I'm also not a huge fan of per encounter stuff either. I read the post, good analysis ... I haven't tried a leather armor / fast attacking fighter but I would assume that Stilettos would do more damage due to -5 DT. 

[mutonizer]

Yeah I'm also not a huge fan of per encounter stuff either. I read the post, good analysis ... I haven't tried a leather armor / fast attacking fighter but I would assume that Stilettos would do more damage due to -5 DT. 

 

Rapiers are faster and good base damage. Since my fighters hit/crit constantly and their base damage is boosted due Savage Attack, the -5DT from stilettos only makes them more interesting against specifically high base DT targets, to increase that damage potential. Otherwise, speed won overall for me but it's nitpicking really, difference wasn't that great between the two.

Edited September 28, 2014 by mutonizer

[Sensuki]

afaik they do 10-16 by default unless they've been changed in the most recent version. Against high DT they're pretty bad.

[Seari]

Good read, looking forward to more.

 

edit: I really hate all these passive abilities fighters get every level, I wish you could pick these instead of getting them automatically.

 

edit2: They should give skill requirements to some talents, like athletics for Fast Runner and survival for Envenomed Strike. Just give more requirements!

Edited September 28, 2014 by Seari

[Skie Nightfall]

Requirements for talents would be good, based on skills and/or attributes.

[curryinahurry]

^  They had talked about having either or requirements in the past; Might 15 or level 8 as an example.  Not sure if they just aren't implemented at the moment or scrapped.

[mutonizer]

Skills and Attributes have no meaning to their name but to be there as words we can use to talk about them. Might doesn't mean Might, Dexterity doesn't mean Dexterity, Intellect doesn't mean intellect, etc. They are just game mechanics which could easily just be called Stat_01, Stat_02 and it would have the same effect.

I really don't see how you'd link one thing with another because of this, unless you go even more abstract.

 

That said, let's keep this onto Fighter topic only, as a class and it's mechanic.

Edited September 28, 2014 by mutonizer

[AlperTheCaglar]

In my opinion, specialization needs some more loving and fine tuning.

 

Weapon bundles are cool for the initial weapon proficiency, but specializing in bundles just doesn't make sense to me.

 

I explained my thorough reasons in another thread, but I'll paste it here:

 

Imagine if there were a 3 tier system of proficiency with a weapon -- Good, Exceptional, Master. The Fighter could be the only class to receive the 3rd point:

• First point can be bundles.
• Second point probably shouldn't be bundles but perhaps the selection could narrow to 3 very related weapons.
• A hypothetical final mastery point definitely should be a singular weapon.

[swordofthesith]

Hi Mutt! Thanks for this! I took your notes and smashed 301 with an Orlan perception rogue! 

 

RE Weapon Specialization. I think it is bugged. I took it for my fighter and it didn't show in the talent acknowledgments upon level and was no where to be found on the character sheet. 

[mutonizer]

Hi Mutt! Thanks for this! I took your notes and smashed 301 with an Orlan perception rogue! 

 

RE Weapon Specialization. I think it is bugged. I took it for my fighter and it didn't show in the talent acknowledgments upon level and was no where to be found on the character sheet. 

 

Weapon specialization or Weapon focus?

Specialization is granted automatically to Fighters at level 5 and indeed as, I wrote, there are no references to it anywhere, nor does it change your listed base damage whatsoever.

Focus seems to work fine for me, and is listed properly though sometimes it's on the same UI line in the character sheet than other talents, making it hard to see. Testing shows that it grants 10ACC as well as far as I could test it.

[swordofthesith]

Weapon specialization or Weapon focus?

 

Specialization is granted automatically to Fighters at level 5 and indeed as, I wrote, there are no references to it anywhere, nor does it change your listed base damage whatsoever.

Focus seems to work fine for me, and is listed properly though sometimes it's on the same UI line in the character sheet than other talents, making it hard to see. Testing shows that it grants 10ACC as well as far as I could test it.

 

 

Talking about Weapon Specialization Mut! You are right, it is FUBAR. Weapon Focus works fine.