Namutree Posted September 17, 2014 Author Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) No, not all capitalist are for gay marriages. Those are different things that have nothing in common. It's like saying all blonde people are for gay marriages. Marriage in the US is a financial institution. One cannot separate such an institution from property rights. The social consequences of marriage are meaningless legally. It is likely that your definition of capitalism is different from mine. My definition is obviously the American variety most often exported by objectivists and libertarians. Abortion too is intertwined in property rights, but that is a can of worms I'd rather not go into detail with. Edit: Spelling mistakes! Edited September 17, 2014 by Namutree "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Kroney Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 So is Gfted saying that the money's coming from property investment or not? Because I don't think it's clear. Dirty deeds done cheap.
Gfted1 Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 Exactly. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Gromnir Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 *chuckle* should you not chastise yourself for spam? largest single investment an ordinary american typically has is in their home, which is REAL ESTATE investment, a point you were fighting against in numerous posts. scroll-up. and again, you actual said, "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". oh, so is pre-schoolers on playground time? you: Recent read something interesting, 1 in 25 people in New York are millionaires. Sounds hard to believe. gorgon: Probably because it isn't true. Unless it's defined as all the most exepensive real estate down town or some such technicality, and greater New York is what we think of as New York. you: (link to ggogle... *snort*) gorgon: It still isn't that odd id the real estate is super expensive, and it is. ... etc. oh, and, "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Gfted1 Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 *chuckle* should you not chastise yourself for spam? largest single investment an ordinary american typically has is in their home, which is REAL ESTATE investment, a point you were fighting against in numerous posts. scroll-up. and again, you actual said, "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". oh, so is pre-schoolers on playground time? you: Recent read something interesting, 1 in 25 people in New York are millionaires. Sounds hard to believe. gorgon: Probably because it isn't true. Unless it's defined as all the most exepensive real estate down town or some such technicality, and greater New York is what we think of as New York. you: (link to ggogle... *snort*) gorgon: It still isn't that odd id the real estate is super expensive, and it is. ... etc. oh, and, "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". Sooner or later even you will get it. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Kroney Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) I'd take "Wall Street generated" to mean stock market money, personally. But then I'm stupid and prone to misunderstandings. Edited September 17, 2014 by Kroney Dirty deeds done cheap.
Gfted1 Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 So would most people. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Gromnir Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 So is Gfted saying that the money's coming from property investment or not? Because I don't think it's clear. it doesn't matter. Gromnir and others has suggested that real estate ownership is a factor in determining millionaire status. gifted rebutts by saying that one o' his linked articles says the money is "wall street-generated" which is meaningless in and of itself, but again, he were rebutting gorgon and others who said that real estate ownership were a factor. he has gone to a bad place. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Namutree Posted September 17, 2014 Author Posted September 17, 2014 No. How could they be wealthy AND poor?Evidently these government restrictions made their property null. Worthless. Can't own anything if the "government's controlling your body". Gay marriage has nothing to do with controlling your body. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Gromnir Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 *chuckle* should you not chastise yourself for spam? largest single investment an ordinary american typically has is in their home, which is REAL ESTATE investment, a point you were fighting against in numerous posts. scroll-up. and again, you actual said, "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". oh, so is pre-schoolers on playground time? you: Recent read something interesting, 1 in 25 people in New York are millionaires. Sounds hard to believe. gorgon: Probably because it isn't true. Unless it's defined as all the most exepensive real estate down town or some such technicality, and greater New York is what we think of as New York. you: (link to ggogle... *snort*) gorgon: It still isn't that odd id the real estate is super expensive, and it is. ... etc. oh, and, "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". Sooner or later even you will get it. sadly, we do not believe you will. *sigh* keep spamming though. is... illustrative. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Gfted1 Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 *chuckle* should you not chastise yourself for spam? largest single investment an ordinary american typically has is in their home, which is REAL ESTATE investment, a point you were fighting against in numerous posts. scroll-up. and again, you actual said, "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". oh, so is pre-schoolers on playground time? you: Recent read something interesting, 1 in 25 people in New York are millionaires. Sounds hard to believe. gorgon: Probably because it isn't true. Unless it's defined as all the most exepensive real estate down town or some such technicality, and greater New York is what we think of as New York. you: (link to ggogle... *snort*) gorgon: It still isn't that odd id the real estate is super expensive, and it is. ... etc. oh, and, "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". Sooner or later even you will get it. sadly, we do not believe you will. *sigh* keep spamming though. is... illustrative. HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Gromnir Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". actual quote in response to those suggesting inflated ny property values factored into millionaire status: "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Kroney Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 So is Gfted saying that the money's coming from property investment or not? Because I don't think it's clear. it doesn't matter. Gromnir and others has suggested that real estate ownership is a factor in determining millionaire status. gifted rebutts by saying that one o' his linked articles says the money is "wall street-generated" which is meaningless in and of itself, but again, he were rebutting gorgon and others who said that real estate ownership were a factor. he has gone to a bad place. HA! Good Fun! I think he's just trying to say that the link he posted doesn't factor in property ownership, so whether or not Gorgon counts it was irrelevant for the subject matter he produced. Not that you and Gorgon are wrong, clearly you're not but he was talking about people with a crap load of money in the bank and oh god I don't care anymore 1 Dirty deeds done cheap.
Namutree Posted September 17, 2014 Author Posted September 17, 2014 They did however, have less property rights than they could have.From what I gather you seem to be under the impression support for property in any form is "capitalist" and to deprive others of property in any form is to be anti-capitalist. This rationale is exceptionally fallacious because the overwhelming majority of people (the "99%" if you will) do not have private property. Does this mean capitalism is anti-capitalist for depriving these people of property? For your impression: You are spot on. Capitalists believe in property. In all it's forms. This includes, but is not limited to, private property. As far as I'm concerned; anyone opposing property is being anti-capitalist. As for your your question. Not at all. I'm not sure what situation each of these people are in, but I am 100% confident capitalism isn't keeping them from owning private property. That would be like saying food is being pro-starvation since some people don't have any meat. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Barothmuk Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Gay marriage has nothing to do with controlling your body.I couldn't tell what you'd constitute as "bodily" control. Replace marriage with sex and my half-arsed 'rebuttal' stands. Tbh that was probably the least important part of the post and discussion anyway. Not at all. I'm not sure what situation each of these people are in, but I am 100% confident capitalism isn't keeping them from owning private property.Then you are 100% wrong. The existence of private property in the hands of the few exists and persists solely due to its non-existence in the hands of the many. That would be like saying food is being pro-starvation since some people don't have any meat.No, food isn't "pro-starvation", rather it is the system that over produces food, unevenly distributes it and demands that people can only acquire it by selling their labour that is "pro-starvation". Edited September 17, 2014 by Barothmuk
Gromnir Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 So is Gfted saying that the money's coming from property investment or not? Because I don't think it's clear. it doesn't matter. Gromnir and others has suggested that real estate ownership is a factor in determining millionaire status. gifted rebutts by saying that one o' his linked articles says the money is "wall street-generated" which is meaningless in and of itself, but again, he were rebutting gorgon and others who said that real estate ownership were a factor. he has gone to a bad place. HA! Good Fun! I think he's just trying to say that the link he posted doesn't factor in property ownership, so whether or not Gorgon counts it was irrelevant for the subject matter he produced. Not that you and Gorgon are wrong, clearly you're not but he was talking about people with a crap load of money in the bank and oh god I don't care anymore again, you gotta review the thread for gifted's weird spam to be revealed as ludicrous. he actual posted a google link and the google link obviously didn't clarify where money came from the million were generated. https://www.google.com/search?q=1+in+25+ny+millionaire&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gws_rd=ssl#q=1+in+25+ny+millionaire&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&start=0 seriously? from that mess he then picks out one such article to rebut gorgon's, Gromnir's and hoon ding's assertion that real estate ownership were a factor in odd prevalence o' millionaires. "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." to help him, Gromnir further clarified role o' property ownership. again, gifted is being ridiculous. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
JadedWolf Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 All of this is irrelevant since we will soon be moving towards a non-scarcity based economical model. As soon as our new overlords get here....any day now. I am looking forward to this moment. Come, Overlords! Come! The spacecraft was delayed. We have to wait a few more months. Warning: mildly offensive lyrics: Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Gfted1 Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 So is Gfted saying that the money's coming from property investment or not? Because I don't think it's clear. it doesn't matter. Gromnir and others has suggested that real estate ownership is a factor in determining millionaire status. gifted rebutts by saying that one o' his linked articles says the money is "wall street-generated" which is meaningless in and of itself, but again, he were rebutting gorgon and others who said that real estate ownership were a factor. he has gone to a bad place. HA! Good Fun! I think he's just trying to say that the link he posted doesn't factor in property ownership, so whether or not Gorgon counts it was irrelevant for the subject matter he produced. Not that you and Gorgon are wrong, clearly you're not but he was talking about people with a crap load of money in the bank and oh god I don't care anymore again, you gotta review the thread for gifted's weird spam to be revealed as ludicrous. he actual posted a google link and the google link obviously didn't clarify where money came from the million were generated. https://www.google.com/search?q=1+in+25+ny+millionaire&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gws_rd=ssl#q=1+in+25+ny+millionaire&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&start=0 seriously? from that mess he then picks out one such article to rebut gorgon's, Gromnir's and hoon ding's assertion that real estate ownership were a factor in odd prevalence o' millionaires. "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." to help him, Gromnir further clarified role o' property ownership. again, gifted is being ridiculous. HA! Good Fun! No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Namutree Posted September 17, 2014 Author Posted September 17, 2014 No, food isn't "pro-starvation", rather it is the system that over produces food, unevenly distributes it and demands that people can only acquire it by selling their labour that is "pro-starvation". Luckily that system doesn't resemble capitalism. I'll be having a nice salad later using vegetables I grew myself on my own land. Good thing I can own land to grow food on. Otherwise, I'd have to get it some other way. I hear in some socialist countries people are at the mercy of state to eat. Why, I think some 100,000,000+ people died because of that last century. Then you are 100% wrong. The existence of private property in the hands of the few exists and persists solely due to its non-existence in the hands of the many. How exactly would those people own private property if owning private property is forbidden? The only way they could own private property is if it were allowed. There is no chance that the ability of anyone to own private property is the reason everyone doesn't own private property. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Gromnir Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". *sigh* since the mods seem to be condoning pure spam, we gotta do likewise. actual quote in response to those suggesting inflated ny property values, which also inflates overall cost-of-living, factored into millionaire status: "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! ps we will note we give up. spam wins. Edited September 17, 2014 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Gfted1 Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". *sigh* since the mods seem to be condoning pure spam, we gotta do likewise. actual quote in response to those suggesting inflated ny property values, which also inflates overall cost-of-living, factored into millionaire status: "None of the articles Ive read suggest the money is tied to real estate so Im not sure where you two are getting that. From one of the links above: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated"." HA! Good Fun! ps we will note we give up. spam wins. No. I was simply stating that: "Most of the wealth is Wall Street-generated". "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Namutree Posted September 17, 2014 Author Posted September 17, 2014 Gromnir/Gifted1: You guys could really contribute to this thread if you would stop spamming. Let's just call the spam war a draw. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Gfted1 Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 Good sir/ma'am, Im not spamming at all. Its simply easier to ctrl+v my response than to type it out every time Gromnir's posts to me go down the rabbit hole. Now regarding socialism? Get outta my pocket! 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
BruceVC Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 Gromnir/Gifted1: You guys could really contribute to this thread if you would stop spamming. Let's just call the spam war a draw. I don't know, I'm finding it quite funny to be honest "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Barothmuk Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 Good god I think I’m talking with a libertarian. Luckily that system doesn't resemble capitalism. I'll be having a nice salad later using vegetables I grew myself on my own land. Good thing I can own land to grow food on.Good golly gosh. Wage-slavery, over production, uneven distribution and mass exploitation simply DO NOT EXIST because this seemingly affluent person can grow some ****ing vegetables. Hallelujah. Shame nobody informed the Russians. Could have saved us a lot of trouble. I hear in some socialist countries people are at the mercy of the state to eatAnd in glorious free capitalist society we are at the mercy of the rich (who control the big bad boogie man “the state”) to work for menial wages to eat food. Why, I think some 100,000,000+ people died because of that last century.You think wrong. The statistic you are referencing comes from “The Black Book of Communism” whose death toll clocks out at 94 million. The book itself was absolutely savaged for its intellectual poverty with the authors themselves later admitting they had inflated the statistics because they wanted to reach that 100 million figure. Worth noting is when you apply the methodology used to acquire that 94 million figure to capitalism you get well over a billion deaths. Personally I think arguments based on death tolls aren’t the best way to go about it. How exactly would those people own private property if owning private property is forbidden?I never said capitalism forbids private property. How on Earth did you make that conclusion
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