So DA:I will have stronghold and crafting too

[nzmccorm]

 

You can "L0L" all you want, but unless you offer something substantial it's just gonna make you look like an idiot. You know that, right? Like, you're hurting your own cause?

 

Also you're from Northern Ontario sooooooooooooo

Bioware themselves have acknowledged the successful RPG designs and elements in Bethesda games, and have promised to implement them in DA:I.

 

Of course, they're probably just driven by Skyrim's unbelievable financial success, and seek to copy it, rather than any 'artistic vision'. But hey, even a financial motivation is bound to produce something better than DA2.

 

Dude he's from Northern Ontario. There are like thirteen people who live there, all of whom are named Frank. Including the girl. I'm basically just impressed he can use a keyboard.

 

I mean-- Sure. I don't like BEthesda's quality-over-quantity approach to quest design because I'm the kind of dude who feels tempted to do everything. So I can understand criticisms of that model. My dismissal has way more to do with Canadian regionalism.

[BruceVC]

 

"In terms of role-playing Bethesda has certainly been beating Bioware."

 

No. No, they haven't.  Everything about their games are trash. Even BIO's worst game role-playing wise (BG1) crushes Bethesda's best efforts.

BG1 is their worst game for role-playing? What drugs are you on? There was plenty of room for role-play. 

 

Now, let's compare the role playing options of a recent Bioware game like, DA2 vs Skyrim.

 

Races:

DA2-Must be a human.

Skyrim-Plenty of races.

 

Dialog:

DA2-Stupid dialog wheel doesn't even let you know what you are going to say.

Skyrim-Text responses; much better for role-playing.

 

Game Pace:

DA2-Stuck in a town and can only talk to highlighted npcs.

Skyrim- Big open world, can go anywhere you want, and can talk to whomever you want.

 

Seems like Skyrim decimates DA2 on the role-playing front. Heck, DA2 doesn't even let you decide how you look!

 

 

That's a good analytical assessment from a high level perspective, you make simple points but they are very hard to refute. That's the secret to a good debate, easily understood points  but true

Edited August 7, 2014 by BruceVC

[Namutree]

I recently had a nightmare about DA2. I kept pushing a button, but awesome wasn't happening. Thank goodness it was just a terrible dream... or was it?

[Lephys]

Well, I can't think of any other functionality changes, can you?

I've specifically described the types of things to which I was referring. I even suggested I didn't use the best word with "functionality." So, at this point, you're just being an arse. Congratulations.

[Stun]

 

Well, I can't think of any other functionality changes, can you?

I've specifically described the types of things to which I was referring. I even suggested I didn't use the best word with "functionality." So, at this point, you're just being an arse. Congratulations.

 

Lephys, "auto attack variations" (AKA. the Awesome button") is neither a functionality improvement nor a technical one. It's an animation change. And lets not sugar coat turds. varied or not, It SUCKED. it was painful to look at. And "aiming"? How can anyone say aiming has been improved for DA2 when the game flat out removed the tactical camera? Really, when playing DA2 could you better aim your AoE's? I couldn't. Edited August 7, 2014 by Stun

[Volourn]

"Bioware themselves have acknowledged the successful RPG designs and elements in Bethesda games, and have promised to implement them in DA:I."
 

You think I give a crap what BIO thinks? Those are the toolbags who  are resposnible for trash like Minsc and Deekin.

 

 

ow, let's compare the role playing options of a recent Bioware game like, DA2 vs Skyrim.

 

"Races:

DA2-Must be a human.

Skyrim-Plenty of races."

 

Meaningless crap. Role-llaying is not about the useless character model you look at.

 

 

"Dialog:

DA2-Stupid dialog wheel doesn't even let you know what you are going to say."

 

That's funny. I knew what I was gonna say when I selected the response.

 

"Skyrim-Text responses; much better for role-playing."

 

Poorly written garabge that changes nothing important.

 

Game Pace:

"DA2-Stuck in a town and can only talk to highlighted npcs."

 

And, you can make important decisions that effect quests , story, and the character.

 

 

"Skyrim- Big open world, can go anywhere you want, and can talk to whomever you want."

 

Boring crap that means nothing.

 

Super Mario brothers is a better RPG than any ES crap game.

 

The truth hurts.

[Stun]

I'm basically just impressed he can use a keyboard.

Jury's still out on that, actually.

 

He certainly can't figure out how to use quote tags

Edited August 7, 2014 by Stun

[Stun]

 

"Races:

DA2-Must be a human.

Skyrim-Plenty of races."

 

Meaningless crap.

 

:::looks at Volourn's sig::::

 

Yeah. OK.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Stun

[Namutree]

"Bioware themselves have acknowledged the successful RPG designs and elements in Bethesda games, and have promised to implement them in DA:I."

 

You think I give a crap what BIO thinks? Those are the toolbags who  are resposnible for trash like Minsc and Deekin.

 

 

ow, let's compare the role playing options of a recent Bioware game like, DA2 vs Skyrim.

 

"Races:

DA2-Must be a human.

Skyrim-Plenty of races."

 

Meaningless crap. Role-llaying is not about the useless character model you look at.

 

 

"Dialog:

DA2-Stupid dialog wheel doesn't even let you know what you are going to say."

 

That's funny. I knew what I was gonna say when I selected the response.

 

"Skyrim-Text responses; much better for role-playing."

 

Poorly written garabge that changes nothing important.

 

Game Pace:

"DA2-Stuck in a town and can only talk to highlighted npcs."

 

And, you can make important decisions that effect quests , story, and the character.

 

 

"Skyrim- Big open world, can go anywhere you want, and can talk to whomever you want."

 

Boring crap that means nothing.

 

Super Mario brothers is a better RPG than any ES crap game.

 

The truth hurts.

Whether or not you like it doesn't change the fact that Skyrim has more role-playing options.

 

1: Race in Skyrim does matter. It affects you mechanically and it affects how certain npcs react to you. 

 

2: How are the responses poorly written? Did you even play Skyrim? Also responses do matter. Different choices can change quests and rewards. Not to mention their very presence affects role-playing.

 

3: If you think that a game world, where can go, and whom you can talk to are boring that's fine. They are still vital to role-playing whether or not you think they are boring. It seems you think role-playing is boring, but still doesn't change this truth:

 

Skyrim is objectively better than DA2 for role-playing. If that doesn't tickle your fancy because it's "trash"; oh well. 

[BrokenMask]

Dang, you guys are getting personal there <_< Where are mods? I mean, I'd think their job is to stop discussion from getting bashing people

 

Anyway, I do agree that Bethesda rpgs don't really have roleplaying. I mean, yeah, they have dialog trees, but dialog trees are only used to ask about important npcs and locations and say Yes/No to accepting quests. Even the quests with multiple ways to complete have barely any difference. And race choices don't really matter when nobody reacts to your race. I mean, for some reason you can go rather freely as Argonian in Morrowind aka the land that really like enslaving argonian, but nobody seems to really care that you are apparently their saviour's reincarnation or whatever.

[Doppelschwert]

Can't read what's in the box at the bottom.

 

I'm also amazed that this thread hasn't been moved into off topic. Like... what has this stuff even to do with PoE anymore? o_O

 

For what it's worth, though: I boycotted bioware after ME2, but played most of their major title up to that point (if not all). I found the gameplay of ME2 to be enjoyable (the story... not so much), but I didn't want origin and also the reviews showed me that I made a good decision back then by evading ME3 and DA2. Going to evade DA:I as well, the gameplay video I recently looked at looked like some strange version of World of Warcraft, no thanks.

 

Anyway, PoE beta coming up in 11 days, what more do I want.

[Namutree]

 

And, you can make important decisions that effect quests , story, and the character.

 

Important two words here. THE CHARACTER. Not YOUR character; THE character.

Who are you in Skyrim? Whoever you want to be. That's role-playing.

 

Who are you in DA2? Hawk. That isn't role-playing.

[BrokenMask]

Important two words here. THE CHARACTER. Not YOUR character; THE character.

 

Who are you in Skyrim? Whoever you want to be. That's role-playing.

 

Who are you in DA2? Hawk. That isn't role-playing.

 

 

 

Technically speaking, in DA 2 you roleplay person called Hawke. But by that technicality, pretty much every game with protagonists is also a role playing.*shrugs*

 

Anyway, I never really felt that Skyrim is good for roleplaying since 1) NPCs don't really feel alive for me so they break my immersion 2) There are no restrictions given to player at all. Meaning you can be guild leader of everything without even one person being like "So wait, you are leader of every major guild here? Huh" And allowing for stuff like becoming archmage despite always using greatswords and having no magic skills. 3) Quests don't really allow you to choose  to do what you want to do about situation. Like, you can't even attempt to report that guy who wants you to shut down lighthouse and cause a shipwreck. Only justification is that "Nobody would believe you anyway", but you can't even attempt to do that. Why? Because the guy who is obviously a criminal said so

 

Yeah, Bethesda is really immersion breaking for me. Only way I can see someone enjoying roleplaying is by filling all gabs with your own imagination and ignoring stuff from game that breaks that head canon.

Edited August 7, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Namutree]

Dang, you guys are getting personal there <_< Where are mods? I mean, I'd think their job is to stop discussion from getting bashing people

 

Anyway, I do agree that Bethesda rpgs don't really have roleplaying. I mean, yeah, they have dialog trees, but dialog trees are only used to ask about important npcs and locations and say Yes/No to accepting quests. Even the quests with multiple ways to complete have barely any difference. And race choices don't really matter when nobody reacts to your race. I mean, for some reason you can go rather freely as Argonian in Morrowind aka the land that really like enslaving argonian, but nobody seems to really care that you are apparently their saviour's reincarnation or whatever.

Each ES game is different and the issue was RECENTLY Bethesda has been better for role-playing than Bioware. In SKYRIM race matters and people do in fact react to your race often. Don't believe me? Try to join the Stormcloaks as an Altmer; they will notice you're one of those "damn elves" that they hate so much. That is one of many examples of race affecting role-play. 

 

The way you complete quests can make a huge difference. Try playing the Dawnguard questline. One path has you slay the vampires,and another path can turn you into a vampire lord. How is that barely different? Dialog trees can lead to conversations about politics or just general lore; both affect role-play.

 

I could go on, but I won't.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Namutree

[Stun]

And race choices don't really matter when nobody reacts to your race.

Everyone reacts to your race in Skyrim. It borders on excessive, actually.

[Namutree]

 

Only way I can see someone enjoying roleplaying is by filling all gabs with your own imagination and ignoring stuff from game that breaks that head canon.

 

Using your own imagination for roleplaying? How to even address this...

 

Next you'll complain about having to drive in NASCAR. 

[BrokenMask]

Each ES game is different and the issue was RECENTLY Bethesda has been better for role-playing than Bioware. In SKYRIM race matters and people do in fact react to your race often. Don't believe me? Try to join the Stormcloaks as an Altmer; they will notice you're one of those "damn elves" that they hate so much. That is one of many examples of race affecting role-play. 

 

They way can complete quests can make a huge difference. Try playing the Dawnguard questline. One path has you slay the vampires,and another path can turn you into a vampire lord. How is that barely different? Dialog trees can lead to conversations about politics or just general lore; both affect role-play.

 

I could go on, but I won't.

 

 

And yet you can still join the Stormcloaks as any non nord race. Really, altmer being able to disguise as thamor in that one quest is only case where race gives you extra stuff in entire game.

 

And dawnguard storyline is pretty much same on each path. And you end up killing Harkon anyway on both of those paths so thats kinda... Yeaaaah. And even then, how many major choices there are from base game or other dlc?

 

Hmm, and how many times in game when you state your opinion, people actually care about what you say? Heck, there are really few option where you are allowed to roleplaying things in dialog tree that states a thing about your character, like only one I remember anymore is conversations with Serana, they really attempted to give you lots of conversations with her that allow for roleplaying.

 

Okay, how do people react to your race besides one line of "Hi [race]" greetings? Even argonians don't do much besides "Hi [forgot term that argonians use to refer other argonians]". You can freely enter any city as khajit despite khajit being forced to camp outside cities due to their reputation and as argonian you can go to talk to everyone in that specific place where argonians aren't allowed inside city walls without any problems

 

Also, if you are supposed to use imagination for roleplaying(isn't that for Pen & Paper anyway =P Or games with minimalistic approach? Like, you know, no npcs, no dialog, etc, games where you play as only person still living at least as far as you know?), it'd help if game was less immersion breaking. And you didn't really address the point where I can't do what I want because bethesda didn't program that in the game despite of how glaring it is.

Edited August 7, 2014 by BrokenMask

[BruceVC]

 

Each ES game is different and the issue was RECENTLY Bethesda has been better for role-playing than Bioware. In SKYRIM race matters and people do in fact react to your race often. Don't believe me? Try to join the Stormcloaks as an Altmer; they will notice you're one of those "damn elves" that they hate so much. That is one of many examples of race affecting role-play. 

 

They way can complete quests can make a huge difference. Try playing the Dawnguard questline. One path has you slay the vampires,and another path can turn you into a vampire lord. How is that barely different? Dialog trees can lead to conversations about politics or just general lore; both affect role-play.

 

I could go on, but I won't.

 

 

And yet you can still join the Stormcloaks as any non nord race. Really, altmer being able to disguise as thamor in that one quest is only case where race gives you extra stuff in entire game.

 

And dawnguard storyline is pretty much same on each path. And you end up killing Harkon anyway on both of those paths so thats kinda... Yeaaaah. And even then, how many major choices there are from base game or other dlc?

 

Hmm, and how many times in game when you state your opinion, people actually care about what you say? Heck, there are really few option where you are allowed to roleplaying things in dialog tree that states a thing about your character, like only one I remember anymore is conversations with Serana, they really attempted to give you lots of conversations with her that allow for roleplaying.

 

Okay, how do people react to your race besides one line of "Hi [race]" greetings? Even argonians don't do much besides "Hi [forgot term that argonians use to refer other argonians]"

 

Also, if you are supposed to use imagination for roleplaying, it'd help if game was less immersion breaking. And you didn't really address the point where I can't do what I want because bethesda didn't program that in the game despite of how glaring it is.

 

 

You can criticize Bethesda for many things but  to say "there games  don't offer a RP experience"  is just fatuous and fundamentally untrue

 

Of course the definition of  RP is subjective, so maybe we need to focus on that first in order to get common agreement, For me RP is not necessarily  about the dialogue options or even the responses because obviously these will always be limited and offer certain predefined outcomes, that's the nature of all RPG

 

But can you choose to play a mage thief who decides to attack villagers and live in the forest? Can you do this? Can you decide to ignore the main quest and just aimlessly explore if that's what you want? What about someone who decides to only craft? Bethesda excels in all these things. I know a story about a gaming journalist who decided to play Skyrim and  not complete a single quest, all he did was live in a village and only progress his crafting ability. Would I do this, absolutely not. But the point is this was the way he wanted to RP his Skyrim journey

 

So in summary Bethesda games offer a real RP experience if you agree with my definition of RP

[Namutree]

 

 

And yet you can still join the Stormcloaks as any non nord race. Really, altmer being able to disguise as thamor in that one quest is only case where race gives you extra stuff in entire game.

 

That's mechanical; not role-playing. Simply by noticing your race and asking questions like, "Why would you, an elf; help us?" is role-playing. When you go to the mage's guild as a nord the nord student is glad to see another nord. That's role-playing. When you go to windhelm as a human and are asked if you hate dark elves. That's role-playing. Things aren't too different mechanically (though they are a bit different), but for role-play it makes a huge difference.

 

Role-playing isn't just about what you can say by the way. It is also what you can do, and in Skyrim there's a lot you can do.

[Stun]

And yet you can still join the Stormcloaks as any non nord race. Really, altmer being able to disguise as thamor in that one quest is only case where race gives you extra stuff in entire game.

 

And dawnguard storyline is pretty much same on each path. And you end up killing Harkon anyway on both of those paths so thats kinda... Yeaaaah. And even then, how many major choices there are from base game or other dlc?

 

Hmm, and how many times in game when you state your opinion, people actually care about what you say? Heck, there are really few option where you are allowed to roleplaying things in dialog tree that states a thing about your character, like only one I remember anymore is conversations with Serana, they really attempted to give you lots of conversations with her that allow for roleplaying.

 

Okay, how do people react to your race besides one line of "Hi [race]" greetings? Even argonians don't do much besides "Hi [forgot term that argonians use to refer other argonians]"

 

Also, if you are supposed to use imagination for roleplaying(isn't that for Pen & Paper anyway =P Or games with minimalistic approach? Like, you know, no npcs, no dialog, etc, games where you play as only person still living at least as far as you know?), it'd help if game was less immersion breaking. And you didn't really address the point where I can't do what I want because bethesda didn't program that in the game despite of how glaring it is.

If I can just step in here for a moment... The claim was made that Bethesda games do Roleplaying better than Dragon Age 2. Nothing you have said in your last 3 posts even attempts to dispute this claim. In this particular, comparison-based discussion, dismissing away the fact that Skyrim gives you 10 race choices, will get you nowhere, since Dragon Age 2 DOES NOT GIVE YOU RACE CHOICES AT ALL.

 

And YES, race choices are *fundamental* to fantasy role playing. Some of us derive great purpose in being able to role play different races. DA2 simply does not give you that option.

 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If I didn't think that comparing Skyrim to the botched abortion called Dragon Age 2 was so insulting, I would spend a few more minutes and give you about 50 more examples of Role playing-things that Skyrim does which DA2 fails miserably at doing.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Stun

[Namutree]

 

If I can just step in here for a moment... The claim was made that Bethesda games do Roleplaying better than Dragon Age 2. Nothing you have said in your last 3 posts even attempts to dispute this claim. In this particular, comparison-based discussion, dismissing away the fact that Skyrim gives you 10 race choices, will get you nowhere, since Dragon Age 2 DOES NOT GIVE YOU RACE CHOICES AT ALL.

 

And YES, race choices are *fundamental* to fantasy role playing. Some of us derive great purpose in being able to role play different races. DA2 simply does not give you that option.

 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If I didn't think that comparing Skyrim to the botched abortion called Dragon Age 2 was so insulting, I would spend a few more minutes and give you about 50 more examples of Role playing-things that Skyrim does which DA2 fails miserably at doing.

 

You keep editing this post and I keep agreeing more and more. 

 

I wonder though; do you think there's any hope for Dragon Age: Inquisition?

[BrokenMask]

There aren't really many of those moments though.

 

And I added to my last post that as khajit you can enter any cities where khajit was forced to camp outside without anybody commenting on it and as argonian you can enter Windhelm despite argonians being forced to stay outside the walls without anybody complaining about you <_<

 

 

 

 

 

You can criticize Bethesda for many things but  to say "there games  don't offer a RP experience"  is just fatuous and fundamentally untrue

 

Of course the definition of  RP is subjective, so maybe we need to focus on that first in order to get common agreement, For me RP is not necessarily  about the dialogue options or even the responses because obviously these will always be limited and offer certain predefined outcomes, that's the nature of all RPG

 

But can you choose to play a mage thief who decides to attack villagers and live in the forest? Can you do this? Can you decide to ignore the main quest and just aimlessly explore if that's what you want? What about someone who decides to only craft? Bethesda excels in all these things. I know a story about a gaming journalist who decided to play Skyrim and  not complete a single quest, all he did was live in a village and only progress his crafting ability. Would I do this, absolutely not. But the point is this was the way he wanted to RP his Skyrim journey

 

So in summary Bethesda games offer a real RP experience if you agree with my definition of RP

 

 

Eh, if by "real RP experience" you mean going around to steal all cheese in the Skyrim to store them in your house because you can do that and want to RP as cheese crazy guy, sure, Bethesda is great at role playing If I wanted to do that, I'd rather play P&P. Or better yet, not even play a game, imagination is fun.

 

They still don't allow you to say "Screw you" to blades when they tell you to kill Parthunax, it just stays in quest list forever unless you decide to be a **** and kill him. You can't even kill them since they have npc immunity. Any reason why dragonborn who has recruitted three of his friends to serve him can't over throw two veteran blades and take control of the faction again?

 

To me, RP in video games is combination of quest design, dialog and reactivity. Like, npcs should always react to two things in the way that makes sense: What I am and what I'm doing. If I'm naked mage argonian running around Windhelm, I think they would throw me in jail. At least I should catch the flu, its really cold there. Quest design also should allow player to complete the quests in multiple ways that make sense. Again, why you can't even attempt to have guard arrest that guy who tries to get you cause a shipwreck. Bonus points if game can give me reasons why I'd want to complete quest in very specific way without game telling me it directly though environment or details. It always feels kinda awesome for rping when game makes you think "Hmm, I want to sneak through these guys because of reason [x that was never said by npcs "Oh if you don't sneak through this will happen!"]". And on dialog... Well, I should be allowed to lie or tell the truth to further my goals and people should really take note of things I say. LIke if I always say different thing about my personal beliefs to everyone, people should eventually catch onto that. Plus I should really be allowed to state my opinion when it makes sense and not be railroaded by dialog tree. I mean, if in context it makes sense for me to state my opinion, why does the game prevent me from doing that?

 

Also, one thing is that I think choices you make should always have some type of consenqueces. Like, if you really want to be awesome fighter, you can't be the fricking archmage when you know less magic than the apprentices. And in case you CAN be leader of everything, people should react to that even if the reaction is "Wait, aren't you the archmage? Eh, if you want to join companions, okay, I don't care"

 

Anybody taking a note on what I'm saying should notice that Pillars of Eternity is kinda shaping up to be really awesome game by my opinions xP

 

I do have to point out that game doesn't necessary require coplex dialog tree to allow good roleplaying. Like Wasteland 2 from my experience is kinda similar to Skyrim in that dialog is mostly about asking about people, their opinions, events and locations and occasionally providing multiple choice answer to question. Difference is that quests themselves allow you to do things in multiple ways with there being and people do react to things you do and there are consenqueces. Plus lots of skills you have allow you to interact with enviroment to do things differently. So I have to agree that Skyrim style dialog tree CAN be done well, but I guess it helps that in Wasteland 2 you aren't rping one specific character, you are rping a ranger team, so it dialog options can't be personal.

 

In Skyrim, you can just run away from enemies and never use any weapons and stuff after tutorial and you can say "Oh, I'm merchant, I'm going around in cities buying and selling things to get my own house!" but you can never say that through dialog and game doesn't ever react to that. Game is designed around combat and being adventurer and hero and whatever, so player who does that writes the game for themselves, and in my opinion they could just write fiction instead or play a game better suited for that(Like, Dwarf Fortress is much better for that since DF allows you to do whatever you want since there isn't even a plot). Or get a mod or something. Besides, by that logic, a lot of games can be played like that. Granted, Bethesda games are better for that since you can take everything that isn't nailed down with you.

 

 

 

 

If I can just step in here for a moment... The claim was made that Bethesda games do Roleplaying better than Dragon Age 2. Nothing you have said in your last 3 posts even attempts to dispute this claim. In this particular, comparison-based discussion, dismissing away the fact that Skyrim gives you 10 race choices, will get you nowhere, since Dragon Age 2 DOES NOT GIVE YOU RACE CHOICES AT ALL.

And YES, race choices are *fundamental* to fantasy role playing. Some of us derive great purpose in being able to role play different races. DA2 simply does not give you that option.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If I didn't think that comparing Skyrim to the botched abortion called Dragon Age 2 was so insulting, I would spend a few more minutes and give you about 50 more examples of Role playing-things that Skyrim does which DA2 fails miserably at doing.

 

 

 

Ah, thats where you are making a mistake. I'm not arguing whether Bethesda games are better at rping that DA 2(I do think that bethesda is awful at quest design and writing, well, they are great at writing lore, but characters not so much), I'm just saying that Bethesda game aren't good in rping in general.

I never actually said DA 2 is better than bethesda games I did enjoy DA 2 somewhat, but it has really horriblewriting, gameplay and reactivity. Again, nobody cares if you are a mage! Worse if you are a blood mage!

Edited August 7, 2014 by BrokenMask

[BruceVC]

Time for the chart to be brought out.

 

 

I have to say this is very clever and very funny

 

I don't want to seem to be also putting the knife into Volo but just the fact that someone took the time to create such a flowchart that most of us recognise certain characteristics of Volos debating style is impressive. If I was Volo I would see this as a positive post  because obviously his personality resonates with many of us. In other words "no such thing as bad publicity "

 

@ Hiro

I would love to see a similar flowchart but around how you see my debating thought process  when it comes to Romance, I expect it to be quite funny as well

Edited August 7, 2014 by BruceVC

[BrokenMask]

I'm actually wondering why people thought I said DA 2 is better than Skyrim <_<

 

Did they think I'm Volourn 'cause I don't have avatar or something? I just popped in and commented about my opinion is that Bethesda isn't really good at rp since someone commented to me that they disagree with Bethesda being bad at that... I don't remember making any references to DA

Edited August 7, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Namutree]

 

Also, if you are supposed to use imagination for roleplaying(isn't that for Pen & Paper anyway =P Or games with minimalistic approach? Like, you know, no npcs, no dialog, etc, games where you play as only person still living at least as far as you know?), it'd help if game was less immersion breaking. And you didn't really address the point where I can't do what I want because bethesda didn't program that in the game despite of how glaring it is.

 

I'm sure it would help if the game was less immersion breaking. If it's any consolation; Skyrim does a better job of conveying a living world than most rpgs do.

 

In most rpg's all the npc's do is stand around. In Skyrim the people have do things like: Go to work, go to sleep, eat, and talk with friends.

 

Bethesda can't program everything possible into the game. That is a unrealistic standard. Unless you apply that standard to other rpgs and if you do all rpgs have bad role-playing; I'm going to discount it.