Experience Point Mechanics - Fighting Enemies

[IndiraLightfoot]

Indeed. Per encounter feels like a bare minimum right now, after those five hours and no character development at all to show for it. I reckon that's a record among all of my CRPGs I've played.

[Sarex]

I really do hope they consider overhauling the xp system. It really shouldn't be that hard especially because they have an xp cap. I think they should forget about people abusing the per kill xp system(it's a single player game and no one is forcing people to double back after sneaking to kill all the enemies), and just focus on character progression have the right curve progress.

 

There is always the next game, where the can invest more time in to thinking how to prevent double dipping and exploits of similar nature if they feel it's such a big problem.

[IndiraLightfoot]

The worst thing about my example is this: As it stands now, the game punishes exploration and individual choices, and rewards extreme quest railroading. Not. Fun. At. All.

[Namutree]

They could also give us xp for discovering dungeons and doing events. Like... I don't know... OBJECTIVE XP! Instead; it at least seems to be quest xp only. That and tone down the difficulty of filler encounters.

[Sarex]

The worst thing about my example is this: As it stands now, the game punishes exploration and individual choices, and rewards extreme quest railroading. Not. Fun. At. All.

 

That is exactly what Stun and few other said would be the case, lo and behold it happened. I imagine that in the full game with more quests it wouldn't be as bad, but the basic problems would still be there...

[IndiraLightfoot]

Sarex: Heh! I wonder if OE needs to craft a special backer badge for Stun, you and a few others! It could be in electrum, a plaque saying "I told you so".

[BrokenMask]

Hmm, yeah, now that I finished crossing and village areas(and got to the dungeon in the lion area), while I still don't think kill exp is only way to fix this, I admit that they give exp too rarely.

I mean, you don't get exp for finding new location, you get new exp if you went to location which causes quest update <_< Thats... Kinda boring since it doesn't really reward exploration. Seems like they have designed exp so that each time you get more exp, you get enough to level up? Not sure really, but yeah, I think they should give exp more often that what they are currently doing, even if that means stuff like giving exp for talking to people =P Or maybe not, just finding new locations or secrets should be fine...*sigh* But yeah, no exp even for entering the dungeon whether you do it through skull keyhole or the tower... Why do they for some reason give exp for entering spider/ogre cave, but not for entering dungeon? Thats not even internally consistent

 

I don't know if this is because years of conditioning in rpgs to have love for the exp pop up/sound effect or what, but yeah, I still like the demo, but it does feel "off" a lot.

Edited August 19, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Sarex]

Sarex: Heh! I wonder if OE needs to craft a special backer badge for Stun, you and a few others! It could be in electrum, a plaque saying "I told you so".

 

I really don't want to be right, I want this game to be great. I have such high hopes for Obs future in making these games. From reading everyone's comments on the bb, the consensus is that everyone liked everything except the gameplay and it's giving me that gut wrenching feeling. I know this is a beta and far from being finished, but I also feel that Obs took an unnecessary gamble with their "make or break it" game. They could have used the same formula as the IE games, used their own story and setting and once they had the "foundation" game out, they could have branched out in the direction they wanted.

 

I really hope it's just me and that I'm worrying for nothing.

[Namutree]

 

The worst thing about my example is this: As it stands now, the game punishes exploration and individual choices, and rewards extreme quest railroading. Not. Fun. At. All.

 

That is exactly what Stun and few other said would be the case, lo and behold it happened. I imagine that in the full game with more quests it wouldn't be as bad, but the basic problems would still be there...

 

To be fair some one switched the word "quest" with "objective" which while not an outright deception; does imply a different application than what we got.

[Namutree]

 

Sarex: Heh! I wonder if OE needs to craft a special backer badge for Stun, you and a few others! It could be in electrum, a plaque saying "I told you so".

 

I really don't want to be right, I want this game to be great. I have such high hopes for Obs future in making these games. From reading everyone's comments on the bb, the consensus is that everyone liked everything except the gameplay and it's giving me that gut wrenching feeling. I know this is a beta and far from being finished, but I also feel that Obs took an unnecessary gamble with their "make or break it" game. They could have used the same formula as the IE games, used their own story and setting and once they had the "foundation" game out, they could have branched out in the direction they wanted.

 

I really hope it's just me and that I'm worrying for nothing.

 

I have the same feeling. Obsidian strayed a bit too far from the IE experience and may not find their way back. I really hope they fix this.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Character development, regardless of exploration and a certain player's order of things, needs to take place in much smaller xp increments, and as such, I feel pretty firmly now that quest xp is out of the equation. It's all a matter of making a sensitive and fine-mesh objective/per encounter xp system. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[BrokenMask]

 

To be fair some one switched the word "quest" with "objective" which while not an outright deception; does imply a different application than what we got.

 

Yeaaah, the objective isn't synonym with quest, so its kinda disappointing that it turned out to be just quest exp.

 

 

 

 

I really don't want to be right, I want this game to be great. I have such high hopes for Obs future in making these games. From reading everyone's comments on the bb, the consensus is that everyone liked everything except the gameplay and it's giving me that gut wrenching feeling. I know this is a beta and far from being finished, but I also feel that Obs took an unnecessary gamble with their "make or break it" game. They could have used the same formula as the IE games, used their own story and setting and once they had the "foundation" game out, they could have branched out in the direction they wanted.

 

I really hope it's just me and that I'm worrying for nothing.

 

I have the same feeling. Obsidian strayed a bit too far from the IE experience and may not find their way back. I really hope they fix this.

 

 

Eh, I don't think anyone has actually hated the gameplay. In my case the enjoyment is hampered by bugs mostly, which is understandable since beta was just released. I mean, I'm not expecting full release polish, so the fact that item icons and animations are simple don't bother me much at the moment, but... Yeah, I'd be more than little disappointed if it turns out that Baldur's Gate had much more portraits, animations, item icons, etc than this game would have at release. We will see how Obsidian will address beta feedback, I assume they will do something to improve the exp pacing if enough many people agree about it.

 

 

 

Character development, regardless of exploration and a certain player's order of things, needs to take place in much smaller xp increments, and as such, I feel pretty firmly now that quest xp is out of the question. It's all a matter of making a sensitive and fine-mesh objective/per encounter xp system. 

 

Still don't think we necessarily need exp per "enemy encounter", but we definitely need smaller drops of exp more often instead of huge drops of exp once in a while.

Edited August 19, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Sarex]

Character development, regardless of exploration and a certain player's order of things, needs to take place in much smaller xp increments, and as such, I feel pretty firmly now that quest xp is out of the question. It's all a matter of making a sensitive and fine-mesh objective/per encounter xp system. 

 

Anything really that rewards dealing with trash mobs.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I really did feel that the gameplay and the combat were fun! I liked the rather quick pace of it all (but that's for another thread).

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Character development, regardless of exploration and a certain player's order of things, needs to take place in much smaller xp increments, and as such, I feel pretty firmly now that quest xp is out of the question. It's all a matter of making a sensitive and fine-mesh objective/per encounter xp system. 

 

Anything really that rewards dealing with trash mobs.

 

 

Or, rather, basically anything that wants to kill you and that's in-between you, the quest givers and the quest objects. Some of these enemies are certainly better than just filler, heh!

[Sarex]

Or, rather, basically anything that wants to kill you and that's in-between you, the quest givers and the quest objects. Some of these enemies are certainly better than just filler, heh!

 

Of course, I was just generalizing.

[BrokenMask]

I suppose it would help a little bit if there was some actual useful use for hides and beetle shells besides selling them

I mean, otherwise they just fill your inventory or you threw them into stash and forget about them

 

Or at least if they had a rare loot drop that you'll be looking forward to whether you get it or not

Edited August 19, 2014 by BrokenMask

[IndiraLightfoot]

Some of that stuff will be used for crafting. I can't spoil everything for you, but after five hours of combat, my inventory (the stash was broken) was full of animal and monster parts that screamed crafting. And the lady selling potions gave a higher price for such stuff too, IIRC. 

[Immortalis]

Or at least if they had a rare loot drop that you'll be looking forward to whether you get it or not

 

So basically your looking for that incentive of progression but you just refuse to say xp.. Join the hive mind.. Your dancing around the obvious solution.. unless you want an MMO gambling system where beetles can drop Epics.. common man.. lol

 

This is an IE adapation.. stop trying to defend the removal of a core mechanic then justify a replacement when it ended up sucking.. Lol..

Edited August 19, 2014 by Immortalis

[BrokenMask]

Crafting menu is really hard to check through though at the moment. Its really cluttered.

Plus I never liked crafting in any game <_< >_>

 

 

 

 

I suppose it would help a little bit if there was some actual useful use for hides and beetle shells besides selling them

I mean, otherwise they just fill your inventory or you threw them into stash and forget about them

 

Or at least if they had a rare loot drop that you'll be looking forward to whether you get it or not

 

So basically your looking for that incentive of progression but you just refuse to say xp.. Join the hive mind.. Your dancing around the obvious solution.. unless you want an MMO gambling system where beetles can drop Epics.. common man.. lol

This is an IE adapation.. stop trying to defend the removal of a core mechanic then justify a replacement when it ended up sucking.. Lol..

 

 

You are insulting my independent opinion

Besides, if you add enemy exp back, then it brings back the other problems I had with it

Edited August 19, 2014 by BrokenMask

[IndiraLightfoot]

Crafting menu is really hard to check through though at the moment. Its really cluttered.

Plus I never liked crafting in any game <_< >_>

You and me both, buddy! I almost never like crafting in games either. It feels convoluted and chore-like.

Edited August 19, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Silent Winter]

^ok, if it's really just quest-xp and not the objective-xp (sensibly placed) that I was assuming, then yeah ... missed opportunity and not sounding fun.

[Immortalis]

Crafting menu is really hard to check through though at the moment. Its really cluttered.

Plus I never liked crafting in any game <_< >_>

 

 

 

 

I suppose it would help a little bit if there was some actual useful use for hides and beetle shells besides selling them

I mean, otherwise they just fill your inventory or you threw them into stash and forget about them

 

Or at least if they had a rare loot drop that you'll be looking forward to whether you get it or not

 

So basically your looking for that incentive of progression but you just refuse to say xp.. Join the hive mind.. Your dancing around the obvious solution.. unless you want an MMO gambling system where beetles can drop Epics.. common man.. lol

 

This is an IE adapation.. stop trying to defend the removal of a core mechanic then justify a replacement when it ended up sucking.. Lol..

 

 

You are insulting my independent opinion

Besides, if you add enemy exp back, then it brings back the other problems I had with it

 

Which can be worked and balanced around.. Nobody argued that IE was perfect but this hasn't improved anything.. it's made it worse.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Immortalis

[BrokenMask]

 

Which can be worked and balanced around..

 

Wait, which problems are you talking about? <_< I don't think they can be balanced since I'm talking about metagame stuff. Like, the instinct to go out of your way to kill all enemies, doing things like leveling up to get one more skill level to solve the quest/dungeon differently, etc, stuff that doesn't necessarily make rp wise sense.

Edited August 19, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Helm]

I have to agree with Stun. I was okay with objective xp, but I was assuming "objective" wasn't the same as quest. I just fought like, six lions at once and felt the battle was fairly challenging. I would have liked some xp or something; instead I got barely anything. 

 

[...]

 

If this is how they're gonna do objective xp; I'd rather kill xp come back.

Having been more or less in the objective xp camp, I'm having second thoughts now, after five hours of beta.

 

[...]

 

I must say this: either what's counting as "objectives" need a big overhaul (it must be segmented into encounters and small segments - just quest xp is not enough for me to get that IE-inspired feel), or I'll join the xp-per-kill-camp with a vengeance.

 

 

Hmm, yeah, now that I finished crossing and village areas(and got to the dungeon in the lion area), while I still don't think kill exp is only way to fix this, I admit that they give exp too rarely.

 

[...]

 

I don't know if this is because years of conditioning in rpgs to have love for the exp pop up/sound effect or what, but yeah, I still like the demo, but it does feel "off" a lot.

 

^ok, if it's really just quest-xp and not the objective-xp (sensibly placed) that I was assuming, then yeah ... missed opportunity and not sounding fun.

 

Yes...

 

 

Break free of your shackles, let the XP flow through you.

 

 

 

Give into your feelings, you know it is true.

 

 

 

NO ONE can resist the POWER of the dark side.

 

 

Hehehehehehehe

Edited August 19, 2014 by Helm