Challenging parties

[Macrae]

Hi all, first post here..

Rather than min-maxing or 'optimizing' the perfect party I really believe that what added fun for me in IE games was to make 'unbalanced' parties which were more challenging because of the inherent balance problems in them, but at the same time they were also more fun. Whether it is a single character, single character type party or just 'thematic' parties (party of Hobbits for example.. xD) the unbalanced parties were always the ones I enjoyed the most..

One type that I like and that is quite challenging early on and in tight areas is of course the all-magic wielder party, usually mages and sorcerers with some degree of variation of course...very weak at the beginning, devastating at the end..

So, do you have any creative 'unorthodox' party ideas for PoE?

[Karkarov]

Hate to bust your bubble but one of the key design tenets of Eternity is the concept of "no bad parties".  In other words, they have built the game from the ground up so that it can be completed regardless of what type of party you use.  So all wizards should be perfectly viable.

[Silent Winter]

^ could still be 'more challenging' though than a more varied party.

All viable doesn't mean all equally difficult/easy

Edited July 10, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I'll definitely be trying thematic parties with all of one class. Wizards, Rogues, Barbarians, Druids, etc. Should be good to see which parties provide more of a challenge than others.

[Macrae]

I personally love the really challenging no-magic party which has only characters relying on their martial skills rather then some devilish magic..

1 paladin for the RPG and conversation aspect, the leader (+some minor healing)
1 sword and shield tank for aggro
2 heavy hitting barbarians or fighters (one with 2 handed sword other with maul)
1 pure combat archer
1 archer/thief

 

mainly humans, but can mix races quite a lot..

quite powerful at the beginning, quite much challenging at the end..
 

challenge mainly coming from lack of healing (only paladin) and magic for dealing with the powerful monsters, bosses and also groups..

 

fun comes from realism, difficulty and geniune feel that you're the party from lord of the rings led by boromir..

to be played in ironman mode of course..

[Jarmo]

In all "build your own party" games, IWD, ToEE, whatever.

I tend to do one of two things, either I try to play the game and come up with a super-optimized offbeat party

(like... can you overwhelm everything if you have 6 rangers with 6 heavy hitter animal companions? worth a try)

 

Or I build a thematic party, with a story.

Like a Priest with two or more paladin companions. And then they'll have a hired rogue/wizard.

[Archaven]

If such designs of allowing any party combinations and to make each classes unique, i believe the only viable options to have any party composition (all mage, all fighters, all rogues, etc.) is to make available usable items that act as skills for compensation of lacking specific class.

[Silent Winter]

^yeah, but I often feel like that cheapens the classes.

No thief? Here's a chiming bell of opening locks.  Oh, and no traps are really lethal.

No mage? Here's a rod of awesome-spell that anyone can use.

I feel the

[Chilloutman]

I like nature theme party (druid and bunch of rangers and barbarians) but it doesnt fit in PoE world too much, maybe second playthrough

[Silent Winter]

^^my post got cut off

Now I can't remember what it said...

 

something along the lines of: THe game should be designed so that you actually miss having a thief/mage/fighter when they're not in the party.

Can't open all locks (though in PoE, lockpicking is open to all classes) or have a harder time fighting opponent-X

[Archaven]

^yeah, but I often feel like that cheapens the classes.

No thief? Here's a chiming bell of opening locks.  Oh, and no traps are really lethal.

No mage? Here's a rod of awesome-spell that anyone can use.

I feel the

 

Exactly. I think gameplay design should encourage a balance party as it also promotes the most fun playthroughs (having solution to every situation). It's fine to have certain items as a replacement of an absence of a class but having all answers in the form of items make each class not unique or required.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Archaven

[Lephys]

^^my post got cut off

Now I can't remember what it said...

 

something along the lines of: THe game should be designed so that you actually miss having a thief/mage/fighter when they're not in the party.

Can't open all locks (though in PoE, lockpicking is open to all classes) or have a harder time fighting opponent-X

Josh has said on several occasions that all the people on the team that have playtested the game so far have stated that they always miss whatever class they don't currently have in their party. I think that was mainly for combat-related functionality and tactics, but we can hope it carries over a bit into non-combat stuff, too.

 

I think it'd be pretty great to have general class-based knowledge checks or something (at the very least). If you don't have a Rogue in your party, you'll be trying to handle some situation, and miss out on some key knowledge. Kind of like... if you found a dead body, and happened to have a medical examiner or doctor around, they could probably tell you "well, it looks like he's been dead for 3 days" when you might've been under the impression that the body had JUST been killed. Etc.

 

A Rogue might better know how Rogueish things are done... just like a Wizard would know about the specific workings of a grimoire, or how to track/trace/identify Wizard magic, etc.

 

It would be lovely to have checks in place that made use of the variety between the classes, instead of just skill values that can vary as little as a handful of points. I very much agree that we should, to some degree, miss any given class, even in non-combat situations (throughout the game in general, not in every single non-combat situation), when they're not currently in our party.

 

Furthermore, since it seems we'll be able to have our stay-at-the-stronghold (not currently traveling with you in your party) characters actually do things while they're at the stronghold, it'd be kinda cool if who you left there actually allowed things there to be handled in different ways. Maybe if you leave your Rogue there, and someone tries to attack the place, your Rogue will organize raiding parties to slip out in the night and sabotage the enemy armaments (ballistae, siege equipment, etc.) or something. Or poison/contaminate rations. If you didn't have a Rogue there, you couldn't do that. But you might get other options, in that same scenario, with a Fighter or Wizard there, etc. Could have different effects depending on who's attacking, and from where, etc.

 

That stuff could even be handled by scripted interactions, if you didn't return to handle it yourself (after being notified by scouts, etc.)

 

Anywho... each unique character should bring something to the table.

[AGX-17]

Hate to bust your bubble but one of the key design tenets of Eternity is the concept of "no bad parties".  In other words, they have built the game from the ground up so that it can be completed regardless of what type of party you use.  So all wizards should be perfectly viable.

It's inevitable that you can still create a party with little/no combat efficacy. If you really want to fail and die from being mauled by large rodents, it's always an option.

 

Frankly, it's easier to fail than to succeed in most games, if not all games.

Edited July 12, 2014 by AGX-17