LYAHF or Let's you and him fight!

[Aron Times]

One of my favorite things to do in RPGs is to get two enemies to fight each other, either through mundane means (convince both sides that the other is out to get them) or through magic (think Confusion/Chaos in the Infinity Engine games, Waking Nightmare in Dragon Age: Origins). This comes to mind:

 

Just Crazy Enough to Work

 

Both are fun, but I cherish those moments where the "Let's you and him fight!" is accomplished through mundane means. This is partly due to its rarity in CRPGs, where it can only be done through scripted events and conversations, and partly due to the feeling of being a Magnificent Bastard for taking out two birds with one Bluff check.

 

So, will we get to satisfy our inner Magnificent Bastards in Pillars of Eternity? And which class is best at magical LYAHF?

[Randomthom]

Skyrim with pickpocket perk and strong frenzy poisons on a sneaky character...

 

Sneak up, pickpocket them then put a poison in their pocket. They then find it, drink it (curiosity killed the bandit) and proceed to murder all their friends

 

I agree, it's a lot of fun to do this, it'll be even more fun in PoE when i won't be worried about "aren't I losing XP because I'm not the one doing the killing"...

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Both are fun, but I cherish those moments where the "Let's you and him fight!" is accomplished through mundane means. This is partly due to its rarity in CRPGs, where it can only be done through scripted events and conversations, and partly due to the feeling of being a Magnificent Bastard for taking out two birds with one Bluff check.

 

 

As the saying goes, "the best weapon against an enemy is another enemy"

 

But yeah, I'd prefer if this type of stuff would mainly remain in the territory of conversations. Dominate as a spell is so cheap, and always makes me wonder why I can't use it out of combat.

[Randomthom]

Ever use it on Glacius in the D'Arnise keep in BG2?

 

That was cool

[Lephys]

On that note, even when it's done through un-mundane means (typically magic), it's pretty ridiculous how, the SECOND the spell wears off, all the target's allies instantly forgive him, and he rejoins their ranks and turns on you.

 

You'd think after 15 seconds of him trying to kill them for who-knows-what reasons, they'd put "finish him off" at higher priority than "ping him to see if he's sane again, and ask why he attacked in the first place, then work out our differences all in the midst of combat." 8P

 

That's my issue with a lot of games in which they try to hype up all this dynamic, emergent gameplay. "Oooooh, you can distract people and make people fight each other!" Then you get the game and play it, and it turns out there are 2 spells in the game: Distract, and Frenzy. You don't dynamically spur anything. The function of the spell/ability is just "you do this, this guy fights his allies."

 

I'd love a game that presented me with a bunch of dominoes, so to speak, and let me decide in each situation which one to poke, and let the rest fall how they will. Maybe they all topple, maybe only some do. Maybe someone notices and stops them and sets them back up. Maybe they start at one end, or in the center, and move to the other end, or the outside. Etc.

 

If they allowed D&Dish utility spells like Ghost Sounds or Dancing Lights to be used, that would be amazing. Of course, I know that sort of thing starts getting really hard to do. Like, how do you let someone do really cool stuff with Dancing Lights without just coding that option into the game? "*Use the lights to make it appear as though a bunch of people with torches are marching down the path, and use Ghost Sounds to generate the sound of marching and banter.*" Well, now you didn't do anything spiffy with that. You just picked the idea that was already pointed out to you and conveniently coded in as an option.

[Helz]

I've always loved how in the Fallout games, you can get an entire town to go hostile if a citizen gets hit by a misfired bullet.  I like exploiting this by putting neutral NPC's in the crossfire and getting my enemies to accidentally shoot them.  Nothing like an army of pimps and prostitutes fighting for you in New Reno.

 

In Fallout 3/NV, I really enjoy finding NPC patrols/merchants on the roads, then running ahead and luring groups of hostiles into them.  I like these kinds of AI mechanics and wish other games used them more.  

[TheTeaMustFlow]

On that note, even when it's done through un-mundane means (typically magic), it's pretty ridiculous how, the SECOND the spell wears off, all the target's allies instantly forgive him, and he rejoins their ranks and turns on you.

 

You'd think after 15 seconds of him trying to kill them for who-knows-what reasons, they'd put "finish him off" at higher priority than "ping him to see if he's sane again, and ask why he attacked in the first place, then work out our differences all in the midst of combat." 8P

 

To be fair, if such spells exist, it's not unreasonable to suggest that enemies might be aware of them. If they know about magic, then (after seeing their friend suddenly turn on them after the bloke in the dress waved his hands at him) they might well think `Oh crap, they mind-controlled Jimmy!` before `Oh crap, Jimmy's a traitor!`.

[IndiraLightfoot]

How about a bizarre twist? A spell that takes over the shadow of your adversary and make it hostile against its "owner"?

Perhaps it can be called Shadow Retribution.

[Lephys]

To be fair, if such spells exist, it's not unreasonable to suggest that enemies might be aware of them. If they know about magic, then (after seeing their friend suddenly turn on them after the bloke in the dress waved his hands at him) they might well think `Oh crap, they mind-controlled Jimmy!` before `Oh crap, Jimmy's a traitor!`.

Yeah, but, even if Bill the Cop runs into the police station on PCP and starts attacking everyone, even if they believe from the get-go that he's not himself, they're probably still going to tackle/restrain him before suddenly deciding "Oh, he seems to have stopped attacking anyone... obviously he's fine! There's no longer any unknown! 8D!"

 

Besides, the whole point is that they wouldn't decide instantly either way, not that they'd probably decide he's a traitor rather than wondering. Just, the wondering process would be more extensive.