Enemy parties that restore themselves if you don't defeat everybody

[Gfted1]

Also, why are you okay with having to manage your resources through a single fight, until combat victory, but not okay with that same principle simply being spread out across multiple fights?

Im okay with managing resources over multiple encounters (and Im bummed that theres no healer class but that's a whole nother topic). What I don't like is that all these mechanics (healing, unmaiming, inventory, spell/ability replenishment, etc...) are all tied to a mechanic that's designed to be a pain to use (theres not even fast travel). I object to that principle, not to resource management. Sarex's example is a perfect illustration. I will absolutely, positively, save and rest before every single boss fight. For me, having to slowly hoof it back to the rest spot, top off, and then walk back to the boss will quickly wear on me. That's why I want a modded portable campsite. For convenience.

[Lephys]

Im okay with managing resources over multiple encounters (and Im bummed that theres no healer class but that's a whole nother topic). What I don't like is that all these mechanics (healing, unmaiming, inventory, spell/ability replenishment, etc...) are all tied to a mechanic that's designed to be a pain to use (theres not even fast travel). I object to that principle, not to resource management. Sarex's example is a perfect illustration. I will absolutely, positively, save and rest before every single boss fight. For me, having to slowly hoof it back to the rest spot, top off, and then walk back to the boss will quickly wear on me. That's why I want a modded portable campsite. For convenience.

But... they're not necessarily designed to be a pain to use. They're simply designed to require management. They only become a pain to use when the particulars of that management are ill-conceived.

 

For example, you say you'll save and rest before every boss fight, and you somehow reach the conclusion that this DEFINITELY means you will have to hoof it some inconvenient distance back to some previous rest spot. Yet, that's entirely based on the assumption that there will not be a rest spot before every single boss fight. If that fight is designed with a fully refreshed party in mind, then it'd be pretty dumb not to put a rest spot before it. And if it was designed with a "you've already been through 6 previous fights and haven't rested yet" party in mind, then anyone could just inconvenience themselves for 5-or-so minutes to run back to the previous rest spot to heal, then wipe the floor with the boss fight with ease. Bad design. These are the things the developers have to consider when they design any management system, and there's no reason to assume they aren't going to consider these things.

 

I just don't see a need to disguise "I sure hope the system isn't flawed and a pain to use" as "I know for a fact the system will inherently be a pain to use." You don't know you'll be inconvenienced before every boss fight. You just hope you won't. And that's 1,000% understandable.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Lephys

[curryinahurry]

 

 

So in most battles only thing where player's party members aren't on equal or better footing with enemies are per rest spells and abilities, but more often than not player's party members have much more of these to use than enemy npcs that may not even have any of them available to use.

Link?

 

I don't have currently in hand and I didn't find any mention about subject with quick search, so it is possibility that I remember it wrong, but I can't shake of mental image that Josh have said that fight is over when all enemies have their stamina in zero.

 

 

I also remember this being stated somewhere on the forums, but a quick search yielded nothing.  Was it possibly from an interview?

[IndiraLightfoot]

I can't wait for the situations were you are almost at the end of the dungeon with low health searching for a rest spot and then bam the boss appears. Now that is a sucker punch.

While I love your scenario here, it's actually technically not a sucker punch, since bosses on their own turf tend to know what's going on, and seek out intruders with no mercy, especially when they are weak and vulnerable.

 

While in theory, it's nice with groups of baddies replenishing themselves if the party leave a few of them behind, it leads to a number of problems:

- so-called xp-farming (as any respawns will be farmed, unless there's a pool of baddies that gets depleted)

-annoyance (you thought your party made it pass Fargath Falls, but no, lo and behold! The death crabs are all back again, with a vengeance) 

-stinginess on behalf of the game itself (cf. in early D3, if you jumped into an area waypoint or onto a portal pad to save your sorry ass, the critters got back to full health when you peeked in again to see how much they were bleeding, also need I even mention the disaster of enrage timer on everything. In short, Blizzard removed these features and never looked back.)

 

First and foremost, the game should be fun and that includes the gameplay. Any kind of monster-replenishing features needs to be top-notch if it should be included at all.

Edited April 12, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Karkarov]

Death is permanent.  I don't intend to be "knocking out" the enemies I feel I have to fight.  So if I kill a enemy, no, he had better not respawn when I come back if I don't kill the whole group.

[Malekith]

Death is permanent.  I don't intend to be "knocking out" the enemies I feel I have to fight.  So if I kill a enemy, no, he had better not respawn when I come back if I don't kill the whole group.

Shouldn't the same apply to you as well?

[Lephys]

Death is permanent.  I don't intend to be "knocking out" the enemies I feel I have to fight.  So if I kill a enemy, no, he had better not respawn when I come back if I don't kill the whole group.

In all fairness, you don't really get to control whether not a certain level of trauma causes a given foe to lose consciousness before dying.

 

That being said, Josh (I think?) specifically talked about taking certain foes prisoner in lieu of killing them (when talking about the prison/dungeon component of the stronghold), so, it sounds like we'll always have the option.

 

I dunno if it'll just be a manual "keep hitting them 'cause they've got health remaining, even though they're out of the fight from a 0-Stamina state," or if you'll be able to "stamina-kill" all the foes in a given group, then just select "finish them off" or something, just to efficiently do it. 'Cause, it's probably not super often you're going to take the time to finish off an incapacitated foe's Health while multiple other foes are still striking you. And, once they're all "knocked out," it's not like there's any further reason to enforce tactical combat resource management to kill a group of foes that's no longer offering any resistance whatsoever.

 

Of course, for story/lore/quest reasons, maybe you might want to leave them alive, sometimes. Loot their unconscious bodies, then let them wake up in their underpants.

[Hormalakh]

 

I can't wait for the situations were you are almost at the end of the dungeon with low health searching for a rest spot and then bam the boss appears. Now that is a sucker punch.

 

While I love your scenario here, it's actually technically not a sucker punch, since bosses on their own turf tend to know what's going on, and seek out intruders with no mercy, especially when they are weak and vulnerable.

 

While in theory, it's nice with groups of baddies replenishing themselves if the party leave a few of them behind, it leads to a number of problems:

- so-called xp-farming (as any respawns will be farmed, unless there's a pool of baddies that gets depleted)

-annoyance (you thought your party made it pass Fargath Falls, but no, lo and behold! The death crabs are all back again, with a vengeance) 

-stinginess on behalf of the game itself (cf. in early D3, if you jumped into an area waypoint or onto a portal pad to save your sorry ass, the critters got back to full health when you peeked in again to see how much they were bleeding, also need I even mention the disaster of enrage timer on everything. In short, Blizzard removed these features and never looked back.)

 

First and foremost, the game should be fun and that includes the gameplay. Any kind of monster-replenishing features needs to be top-notch if it should be included at all.

No xp farming as no xp is given for killing individual enemies, only completing quests.

Annoyance: Beating each encounter is the challenge, not beating each individual goblin. If you can't beat the encounter as a whole, you can run away, heal up and try again. If you can't do that, shift the difficulty downward or try another strategy. This is the idea behind degeneracy after all.

I don't understand what u meant about your last point with ds3.

[IndiraLightfoot]

You're right about the xp-farming, but perhaps it will be resource farming (loot) instead. I haven't a clue.

And annoyance, good point yet again (provided this feels rewarding and fun enough)!

Lastly, I didn't mean DS3, but Diablo 3, where using area/portal waypoints is a way of survival. However, early on, if you did so, critters, and even bosses, automagically healed up to max again.

[Gfted1]

Death is permanent.  I don't intend to be "knocking out" the enemies I feel I have to fight.  So if I kill a enemy, no, he had better not respawn when I come back if I don't kill the whole group.

I haven't read anything about respawning but there are occasions to take certain enemies prisoner and put them in the dungeon under your keep.

[Karkarov]

Of course, for story/lore/quest reasons, maybe you might want to leave them alive, sometimes. Loot their unconscious bodies, then let them wake up in their underpants.

NO~! Everyone must die, kill em all!!!!

[Lephys]

 

Of course, for story/lore/quest reasons, maybe you might want to leave them alive, sometimes. Loot their unconscious bodies, then let them wake up in their underpants.

NO~! Everyone must die, kill em all!!!!

 

But what if you can kind of be a mean person, then frame some unwitting bandits for your deeds? If you kill them, then people are still on the hunt for you, because they know someone obviously killed these bandits.

 

Think of the frame-ups! 8D