Project Eternity boxed version?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

The answer is the money would come from the slacker backer donations, pre-paid in advance, this covers all their expenses up front.  There's no risk and no problem for Obsidian that way, and can have as many boxed versions as players want to order. 

 

It doesn't work like that. It's not how businesses are run. As I said before, if the printers and associated contractors are making 10,000 boxed copies of the game there's a fixed cost to that which Obsidian will have allocated funds to. To print another individual 100 copies (and all the associated stuff to go with it) is not the same individual cost as the first individual 10,000. It would be more for those extra copies. I know it might not make much sense and clearly by some posts in this thread it doesn't make sense, however the more you add to the initial run the more it costs for those additional orders as well as all the orders overall, even if the printers haven't started yet. Which translates to less money for Obsidian, because more costs are added.

 

I know it's not something you want to hear. The business reality is a business like Obsidian wouldn't want to go back to making additional boxed copies. It's also why you don't see companies like Blizzard, Bethesda, etc  going back to the printers and making more Collectors Editions, even though they could and people would buy them. It adds more costs to the business. Businesses like Obsidian would be looking to reducing costs and one way to do that is through Digital downloads. The profit for additional boxed copies would be so small that it probably wouldn't even make a profit at all for Obsidian, regardless if you prepaid the $80 or whatever money. As Stun said, your best bet is ebay.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist II

[teknoman2]

except even many indie developers have released boxed copies if they had success with the download version first

and many other kickstarters are  planing to do it too, and most of those are smaller teams than obsidian

i say obsidian looses money, at least in the long run, if they don't put something into the stores

one reason is this game is going to be HUGE, (file size wise), and there are still a lot of people with very bad internet around, much more than you'd think

i have a bad connection, but i still went for the digital version. it's more convinient because i do not have to worry about it coming intact or even at all (post office "accidents" are common) and i dont have to wait for it. another reason is that i dont have to deal with my parents about what i bought, i just get it and nobody knows about it. since steam came out, i havent bought a boxed game except BF3 (because i found a really good offer for the limited edition in a retail store)

[Hassat Hunter]

I really wanted a boxed version, but the high shipping costs here to Europe made me go digital instead :/

[BillyCorgan]

Same for me...

But if i could find a boxed version of the game on "Amazon"... for sure i will be going to buy it !

[Lephys]

Lephys.... THINK. C'mon.

Stun... READ. C'mon.

 

For them to offer an on-going distribution service would cost more than what they have to make the game itself. This is why the only avaliable options in the Slacker-backer program are DIGITAL goods, to be distributed through Steam, GoG, and whatever they decide to use as a download site for the Mac version.

Who in the crap said ANYTHING about "on-going distribution"? Well, except for not-me? Yep, for them to on-goingly take single orders for boxed copies would be ludicrous. I absolutely agree. Am I supposed to be arguing against that? o_o

[Stun]

Who in the crap said ANYTHING about "on-going distribution"? Well, except for not-me? Yep, for them to on-goingly take single orders for boxed copies would be ludicrous. I absolutely agree. Am I supposed to be arguing against that? o_o

Well, lets see... Considering the boxed version fulfillment offers ended one year ago, any future orders for boxed versions (what you've been swearing up and down on this thread as possible and simple!) would require order placement and consequent distribution to be on going, wouldn't it.

 

Or do you have another theory as to how Obsidian will be able to create boxed versions out of thin air and ship them out to people who decide to to order them today, tomorrow or 6 months from now...?

 

Oh wait, I know. I hear Chris Avellone is a good artist. Perhaps he can go to the nearest art supplies store and buy some cardboard and personally create a box, then draw its cover art, then burn PE on to a DVD, then type up the manual, then stuff both of them in the box, then shrink-wrap the box, then mail it out. And he can do this with every new order as it comes in.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Stun

[Lephys]

Well, lets see... Considering the boxed version fulfillment offers ended one year ago, any future orders for boxed versions (what you've been swearing up and down on this thread as possible and simple!) would require order placement and consequent distribution to be on going, wouldn't it.

 

Or do you have another theory as to how Obsidian will be able to create boxed versions out of thin air and ship them out to people who decide to to order them today, tomorrow or 6 months from now...?

Well, let's see... Considering the manufacture/procurement of something can, and often does, occur at not-the-exact-same-time as an order is placed, I'd say that, so long as you haven't actually made the manufacturing run yet, you can take as many orders as you want, as many times as you want, at whatever varying times you want to.

 

I'll break this down for you, despite your completely unnecessary condescension:

 

Obsidian is making ice cream. They've planned ahead, and they're working on the recipe right now, but they've gone ahead and said "Hey, we're gonna make ice cream next Saturday, who wants ice cream?! 8D!" So, they took a head count, and said "Oh, cool, okay, we'll plan to make this much ice cream, then."

 

They still haven't made ice cream. But they're GOING to. They took orders in advance, to know how much ice cream to make whenever they do make ice cream. So, if, the next day, someone calls and says "Hey, sorry, I was sick yesterday, but my family and I ALSO want ice cream. Could I get 10 more ice cream orders, on that day?", then, if they so choose Obsidian could say "Yeah, that's fine. We'll just adjust the recipe to make 10 more people's worth of ice cream on Ice Cream Day, 8D!"

 

Now, obviously it's up to them, and obviously I don't know for a fact that they haven't made most of the materials for the boxed copies already (except, clearly they haven't made the game discs to put in them). But, the point isn't whether or not they have done so, but rather, that IF they haven't yet done so, and they so choose, they could easily just up the order. I'm not really sure why you'd want to argue against that, or why you'd want to argue against not-that, and pretend that I'm arguing against you, so that you're not arguing alone. *shrug*

 

If they haven't printed the boxes and manuals and made all the physical goods that will be included in the boxes yet, then they could easily just say "hey, people who print boxes and manuals and things... .we want like THIS many" instead of however many they WOULD'VE said if they had requested them on some other day when they had a different number of orders.

 

Does that make sense? If it doesn't, then I don't know what to tell you.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Lephys

[Stun]

 

Well, lets see... Considering the boxed version fulfillment offers ended one year ago, any future orders for boxed versions (what you've been swearing up and down on this thread as possible and simple!) would require order placement and consequent distribution to be on going, wouldn't it.

 

Or do you have another theory as to how Obsidian will be able to create boxed versions out of thin air and ship them out to people who decide to to order them today, tomorrow or 6 months from now...?

Well, let's see... Considering the manufacture/procurement of something can, and often does, occur at not-the-exact-same-time as an order is placed, I'd say that, so long as you haven't actually made the manufacturing run yet, you can take as many orders as you want, as many times as you want, at whatever varying times you want to.

 

Oh? Can you show me the details of this completely open-ended distribution deal? I'm curious to see it. Specificaly the part that gives Obsidian more than a year to turn in their orders to the distributer. Edited October 28, 2013 by Stun

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

?Oh wait, I know. I hear Chris Avellone is a good artist. Perhaps he can go to the nearest art supplies store and buy some cardboard and personally create a box, then draw its cover art, then burn PE on to a DVD, then type up the manual, then stuff both of them in the box, then shrink-wrap the box, then mail it out. And he can do this with every new order as it comes in.

If that was a reward tier, I would have backed at the requisite level.

[Lephys]

Oh? Can you show me the details of this completely open-ended distribution deal? I'm curious to see it. Specificaly the part that gives Obsidian more than a year to turn in their orders to the distributer.

... Are you feeling okay today? o_O

 

I dunno, probably the same deal that allows them to take our pledge money and deliver us our product a year-and-a-half later. Or the exact same deal that allows a typical, publisher-run project to undergo years of development, THEN get a big batch of games and boxes made close to release date, and shipped out to a bunch of stores. Or, you know, the same deal that lets an author write a WHOLE BOOK, then edit it, THEN they actually send it to a printer to print a bunch of books. I mean... why didn't that guy have to, like, get all his books printed BEFORE he was finished writing the book?

 

Why would you need to make boxes and manuals and goodies A YEAR before you can even POSSIBLY put a game disc in those boxes?

[Stun]

Nope. A finite distribution deal where an exact number of copies is specified all at once and well ahead of time will always be far less expensive than...well... what you're describing.

 

If you disagree then by all means, tell us why Obsidian isn't still offering a boxed copy to new backers. After all, as you say, the game is still several months from going gold. The fullfillment site isn't even up yet. There's literally nothing stopping them from doing what you're suggesting..... except that it would skyrocket their distribution costs.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Stun

[Lephys]

Whatever you say, Captain Unreasonable.

 

Discussion fruitlessness: achieved. I'm wrong. You win. Congratulations.

 

I just hope that, if you're going to throw a celebratory party, you've ordered all your chips and salsa at least a year ahead of time, because if someone calls and wants to invite 2 more friends, you know, before you've actually gone to the store and acquired chips and salsa, logic itself dictates that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to simply adjust the amount of chips and salsa you purchase at the time of procurement.

 

If you take a head count for a party, you can NEVER change the amount of chips and salsa you plan for back when you took the head count.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Now I'm less ignorant.

[Malekith]

InXile entered an agreement with Deep Silver for distribution of physical copies.I imagine Obsidian will see how well Wasteland2 sells in stores and plan accordingly

[Hiro Protagonist II]

It's clear some people have never worked or have first hand knowledge with a business in a managerial, logistics, production or supply capacity. As I said, businesses work differently and as an employee you often wonder why things are done the way they are. Why can't they do this? Why can't they do that? Why can't we throw in a couple of hundred more boxed copies? When you're in a managerial position, you understand the other side of how things actually work.

 

Your standard publisher has distributors worldwide. They have business agreements, trade discounts, and other things in place to keep costs down. Those distributors have discounts with transport companies, freight forwarders and airlines. If someone in Australia buys a boxed copy of a Blizzard or Bethesda game, it doesn't come from America. It usually comes from Singapore or some other country close by.

 

Obsidian is not a publisher, they don't have distributors worldwide. They don't have the ability to keep costs down to those levels like the normal publishers do. Every boxed game from Obsidian has to be sent worldwide from America. So all the aussies will be getting our games from America, not Singapore. So that means nearly every game (excluding the high tiers eg.$250+) sent to Australia has just made a loss for Obsidian on postage. And not including all the other countries where they'll be making a loss on the postage. That means the postage costs will eat into the profits of the boxed copy itself.

 

At the moment, it's better for a company to go down the digitial distribution route now even before the first box is printed. When you're selling a game here on in, production costs are still going up, your biggest profit margin will be from the digitial downloads because the costs will be minimal compared to the stuff that comes with a box and postage. Straight away you've eliminated the postage altogether with a digital download. You can also tweak the price of the digital download on a whim. eg. Put up a special a week before the games is released (say $1 or $2 off) and get more sales. You can't do that with a boxed copy.

[Lephys]

^ Hence why almost every Kickstarter page says something along the lines of "Please include $20 extra for shipping of physical goods outside the U.S.".

 

The simple fact is this: You don't need your stuff to actually be produced until a certain point in time. You can't make the game manuals if you don't even have a finalized copy of them yet, because you don't even have the info worked out that's going to be in them (if there will be manuals in the boxed copy), and you definitely can't make the game disc, itself, until the game is complete. So, all factors being whatever they are, specifically, if you so choose to take more orders at a certain point (STILL all before you've actually said "Hey, printer/manufacturer... I need you to now start production on X number of boxed copies"), you can do so and simply alter the quantity of things you need to be made.

 

Yes, distribution is another matter, and it needs to be worked out. But, there's nothing inherent to the sheer process of producing boxed copies of games that prevents then from ever taking further boxed copy orders after a Kickstarter campaign has closed, as the closing of the Kickstarter campaign doesn't dictate the necessary start of boxed-copy manufacturing.

 

That's quite literally all I'm pointing out: It's possible they might get the fulfillment site up and still allow for a short window of physical copy orders. It's also possible they won't. But it wont' be because it's inherently impossible. It'll be because of factors and factor values specific to this particular project, and decisions of people for various reasons, all of which I'm not claiming to know exact details about, which is precisely why I'm simply saying, to those wondering if they'll be able to get a boxed copy, that it's possible they might still take orders for those.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

^ Hence why almost every Kickstarter page says something along the lines of "Please include $20 extra for shipping of physical goods outside the U.S.".

 

Did you even read what I wrote? $20 will not cover the cost of postage to countries like Australia, especially if they're using companies like FedEx/DHL/UPS to track the orders. So why would Obsidian go back to a boxed copy when they'll be losing money on a lot of those international orders? For some reason, you think $20 will cover every destination in the world. Just go down to your local post office with a boxed game inside another bigger box and ask how much this would cost to go to Australia, Sweden, UK, South Africa, France, Germany, Russia, etc and you'll get a whole range of costs and some destinations will be over $20.

 

If I were to buy items from one supplier in the States and they charge a standard $25 fee for international orders, it appears this is covering the cost of postage. It's not in a lot of cases. Looking up the amount they pay to say FedEx which is around $30-45 depending on the chargeable weight, they lose money on the postage to Australia which eats into their profits. I've seen costs paid to companies like FedEx around the $75 mark but they're charging me $25.00. International orders will either lose or make money. The destinations that are losing money will be subsidised by those that are making money. Why would you add more orders that will more than likely lose money when you have an alternative that eliminates the postage cost altogether and is guaranteed to make money? This is the reason why you don't go back and put up boxed copies again.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist II

[ManifestedISO]

I sold a couple of light-weight aluminum motorcycle wheels to a buyer in Oz, and shipping via USPS was $250! And that was much cheaper than the big fly-away carriers. 

Edited October 29, 2013 by ManifestedISO

[Stun]

The simple fact is this: You don't need your stuff to actually be produced until a certain point in time.

To keep costs to the bare minimum, however, you do need to turn in your production order to the distributor before a certain point in time.

 

And I'm 99% certain that time has come and gone for Obsidian. Because again, why else would they not be offering any physical goods to slacker backers? Is it because they simply don't like you guys? lol

 

 

In any event, I don't think all hope is lost for the "late comers". There might be a very limited promotion just before the game's release where Obsidian will come on here and announce that they have X number of Boxed copies up for grabs for the first x number of people who pre-order during the promotional period. But again, that would be nothing more than the result of forsight on their part - extra boxed copies that they ordered during the kickstarter, above and beyond what is reserved for the backers.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Stun

[kgambit]

 

The simple fact is this: You don't need your stuff to actually be produced until a certain point in time.

 

And I'm 99% certain that time has come and gone for Obsidian. Because again, why else would they not be offering any physical goods to slacker backers? Is it because they simply don't like you guys? lol

 

 

And you're 99% wrong.    (It's always possible that they have changed their mind on this.  But this is what I got from Obsidian when I asked about getting a boxed version as a slacker backer.)

 

From an email exchange with Obsidian:

 

 

Q.  Will I be able to increase my slacker backer donation and obtain a physical copy i.e. a boxed edition of the game once the Backer Portal opens?

A.  Yes, you’ll be able to upgrade your tier, add add-ons, and settle up any shipping costs, as well as provide us any needed information to finish your pledge (shipping address, in-game credit, etc).

 

Edited October 29, 2013 by kgambit

[Lephys]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they've directed more than a few questions about getting a boxed copy and/or getting something from another tier as originally offered via the Kickstarter campaign to the yet-to-come fulfillment site.

 

And yes, Stun... you do have to probably give the order to the production folk by a certain point in time. I'm pretty sure you can't just give it to them AFTER you need the stuff produced, or never.

 

I'm not sure how "it's possible they haven't yet had to actually place the order for the production of boxed copies yet" is contradicting that.

 

It baffles me how pointing out a possibility begets such hostility, especially accompanied not only by a lack of proof as to the opposite of what I've claimed, but also by the pretense that I've somehow claimed there's definitely going to be another batch of boxed copy orders for people, and that they've definitely not yet started production on any of the stuff and/or passed the deadline for giving their order to the production folk.

 

I don't know such things, and would love to know one way or the other. Until then, when people make a post expressing worry about whether or not they'll be able to get a boxed copy, out of the three answers one can possibly give (yes, no, or maybe), I'm going to tell them what I can, even if that just results in a maybe.

 

Why does that prompt such intense argument?

 

And @Hiro:

 

I didn't say "$20 totally covers all shipping ever, and I know this to be true." But, also, how do you know it doesn't? If they end up with 75 backers with Australian addresses, don't you think they'd ship those 75 together in a batch, and not just drive each one, individually, to the UPS Store and say "Hey, I wanna ship this one to Steve... and this one to Phil... and this one to Suzy..."? I'm pretty sure if you're going to be shipping upwards of 5,000 things, the shipping service works out some kind of deal with you. Not 100% sure, but, I know that sort of thing occurs.

 

Anywho, the point of what I said was... if they KNOW it's going to cost extra to ship internationally, before they even produce the goods, then don't you think they're intelligent enough to have a plan? And don't you think the disclaimer of an additional charge for international shipping is evidence of that? Or maybe it's just a coincidence? They just arbitrarily decided to charge people outside the U.S. a random number of extra currency?

 

I don't know the specifics, so stop challenging me on the specifics. I never claimed to know them. But, I like to think they know what they're doing, and aren't taking a giant loss on every single physical copy someone backed. Why would they even offer boxed copies in the first place if they were taking a loss on each one? And if they're taking a loss on any international orders, then it's probably not all of them. And even if it's all of them, that $20 (or however much it was on P:E's) has to help significantly. I don't think it's $84 per box to ship a friggin' game. Plus, what percentage of the boxed copies are international orders, that exceed the shipping costs of the cost of the physical copy tier PLUS the extra international charge from the Kickstarter? Maybe it's so few that they don't really care, and it wasn't worth pissing those international folk off by charging them like 40-50 bucks extra for shipping? *shrug*

 

Again, I'm sure they've thought about it. This isn't their first rodeo. All I'm saying is that they likely know what they're doing, the specifics of which its clear NEITHER of us know. So, if you want more info/definitive proof, then feel free to investigate further by questioning the development team. I'm not worried about proving one way or another. I just made comments with the knowledge I currently possess.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

And @Hiro:

 

I didn't say "$20 totally covers all shipping ever, and I know this to be true." But, also, how do you know it doesn't? If they end up with 75 backers with Australian addresses, don't you think they'd ship those 75 together in a batch, and not just drive each one, individually, to the UPS Store and say "Hey, I wanna ship this one to Steve... and this one to Phil... and this one to Suzy..."? I'm pretty sure if you're going to be shipping upwards of 5,000 things, the shipping service works out some kind of deal with you. Not 100% sure, but, I know that sort of thing occurs.

 

I know because I've worked in the Customs, Freight, Logistics industry for the last 20 years. I deal with Importers, Exporters, Production/Manufacturing companies, Customs, Quarantine, Transport, Distributors, Logistics, Airlines, Shipping companies on a weekly basis. And what you're saying isn't correct. It doesn't help your argument when you make up assumptions and hypotheticals which have no basis in reality. A little over 10,000 boxed copies will have to be sent to backers. You're suggesting that Obsidian's distributor will break down those 10K+ orders by country and then do each country individually? Which countries do they do first? Do they start in alphabetical order? It wont work that way.

 

Anywho, the point of what I said was... if they KNOW it's going to cost extra to ship internationally, before they even produce the goods, then don't you think they're intelligent enough to have a plan? And don't you think the disclaimer of an additional charge for international shipping is evidence of that? Or maybe it's just a coincidence? They just arbitrarily decided to charge people outside the U.S. a random number of extra currency?

 

Well of course they know it's going to cost extra to ship the goods internationally. It won't cover the costs for certain destinations. The extra charge will offset some of the costs for international shipping for some destinations.

 

I don't know the specifics, so stop challenging me on the specifics. I never claimed to know them. But, I like to think they know what they're doing, and aren't taking a giant loss on every single physical copy someone backed. Why would they even offer boxed copies in the first place if they were taking a loss on each one? And if they're taking a loss on any international orders, then it's probably not all of them. And even if it's all of them, that $20 (or however much it was on P:E's) has to help significantly. I don't think it's $84 per box to ship a friggin' game. Plus, what percentage of the boxed copies are international orders, that exceed the shipping costs of the cost of the physical copy tier PLUS the extra international charge from the Kickstarter? Maybe it's so few that they don't really care, and it wasn't worth pissing those international folk off by charging them like 40-50 bucks extra for shipping? *shrug*

 

If you don't know the specfics, then why do you turn around and then go on about specifics? Specifics you don't know anything about. As I said, every boxed copy to destinations like Australia (excluding the high tiers) would be making a loss on the postage. The destinations that are losing money will be subsidised by those that are making money. So overall, Obsidian will most likely make money but this is just a guess. Nobody knows (except for Obsidian) what the percentage of international orders there are. And there's no reason to exclude 20 or 30 overseas countries because they're a loss making exercise while Obsidian ship to the over 100+ countries where they make a profit on postage.

 

It's also a cash flow thing as well to offer international postage. Obsidian gets money from the Kickstarter which includes postage for international orders. They don't have to pay any postage until the game ships, even if it makes a loss on postage with some of those games. That's an extra amount of money they have for 18 months. However, there's also the distributors costs and everything else that goes into the box. So Obsidian wouldn't even have a true cost of what it will cost to distribute these games when the Kickstarter started because they didn't have a distributor at the start. Even inXile has only acquired a distributor recently. I put it down to either looking at what other companies like InXile are doing and a best guess.

 

Again, I'm sure they've thought about it. This isn't their first rodeo. All I'm saying is that they likely know what they're doing, the specifics of which its clear NEITHER of us know. So, if you want more info/definitive proof, then feel free to investigate further by questioning the development team. I'm not worried about proving one way or another. I just made comments with the knowledge I currently possess.

 

Thinking about it and knowing what to do are two different things. And well, yes this is their first rodeo being their first kickstarter. They'll be looking at things they did right and things they did wrong. And you're making comments with knowledge you currently possess? More like making guesses with no knowledge on how freight companies and distributors work.

[Lephys]

I know because I've worked in the Customs, Freight, Logistics industry for the last 20 years. I deal with Importers, Exporters, Production/Manufacturing companies, Customs, Quarantine, Transport, Distributors, Logistics, Airlines, Shipping companies on a weekly basis. And what you're saying isn't correct. It doesn't help your argument when you make up assumptions and hypotheticals which have no basis in reality. A little over 10,000 boxed copies will have to be sent to backers. You're suggesting that Obsidian's distributor will break down those 10K+ orders by country and then do each country individually? Which countries do they do first? Do they start in alphabetical order? It wont work that way.

Okay, I'm sorry, Admiral Knowledgepants. If I take some box to UPS right now to be shipped to The Netherlands, and some completely other person who has no affiliation with me takes some box up to that same store to be shipped to The Netherlands, in the same day, then UPS (the shipping company) is going to take those two packages and place them EACH on their VERY own jet to the Netherlands? The actual cost, to them, of shipping things to the netherlands is basically the maintenance and fuel for a jet flight to the Netherlands (or closest distribution center), correct? I mean, they're gonna fill that thing up as best they can, and putting another 10lb box on a cargo jet doesn't significantly increase the cost of the flight to wherever stuff is going.

 

If you're going to condescendingly mock someone, at least make sure you're using knowledge stores that don't completely overshoot the fundamental nature of the person's point.

 

Oh, and... you're right. SORT 10,000 orders?!!! Man, that would be IMPOSSIBLE! They're just going to shrug at them like cavemen, and dump them all at a shipping facility without even attaching names or addresses to them. I mean, MAYBE if we had some sort of electronic machine that could somehow gather all that info from people and sort it in seconds... we could call it, the "computer." Yes. That's it. It would compute vast amounts of data far faster than the human brain ever could. *sigh*... Oh well.

 

Well of course they know it's going to cost extra to ship the goods internationally. It won't cover the costs for certain destinations. The extra charge will offset some of the costs for international shipping for some destinations.

... Is there an echo in here? 

 

If you don't know the specfics, then why do you turn around and then go on about specifics? Specifics you don't know anything about.

I'm not. Why are you pretending I'm going on about specifics?

 

Exhibit A: my paragraph above, about how two different people's packages would probably be logistically loaded onto a single vehicle for transport to the same general area, then distributed via truck from there. That isn't "the specifics." That's quite literally the generals. That's GENERALLY how you handle moving thousands upon thousands of individual little packages all around the world, in all different directions, at the same time. You group them logistically.

 

So, yeah, I'm going to ask something like "If they have a big batch of products in their possession, at the same time, and they're sending them out to people at the same time, from the same place, then wouldn't they probably go out in batches, toward different regions, THEN distributed more individually from hubs?"

 

If that's wrong, then maybe save your paragraphs and paragraphs berating my lack of knowledge that I didn't claim to not have and being unconstructively condescending, and maybe just tell me "Hey, that's wrong. Here's how it would work, since I know." Or, you know... just keep being derisive and pointing out how much more you know than other people, without actually correcting or informing, in which case... have fun talking to yourself.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Lephys

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

Okay, I'm sorry, Admiral Knowledgepants. If I take some box to UPS right now to be shipped to The Netherlands, and some completely other person who has no affiliation with me takes some box up to that same store to be shipped to The Netherlands, in the same day, then UPS (the shipping company) is going to take those two packages and place them EACH on their VERY own jet to the Netherlands? The actual cost, to them, of shipping things to the netherlands is basically the maintenance and fuel for a jet flight to the Netherlands (or closest distribution center), correct? I mean, they're gonna fill that thing up as best they can, and putting another 10lb box on a cargo jet doesn't significantly increase the cost of the flight to wherever stuff is going.

 

 

You don't seem to be sorry. Shouldn't say sorry when you don't mean it. And resorting to personal attacks and name calling. tsk tsk.

 

Why are you bringing up transport companies? We're talking about a distribution centre that Obsidian will use. This has nothing to do with UPS or any other transport company. It has to be distributed to the transport company first. If you have a box copy going to the Netherlands today, you don't keep that boxed game in your warehouse for a week for another boxed copy to go to the Netherlands. You have UPS pick up all your copies for that day, say a hundred boxes going to different destinations inlcuding the one that goes to the Netherlands. Then UPS will take them back to their hub and distribute accrodingly.

 

Tomorrow you have another 100 boxed copies to pick up by UPS and one of those copies could be going to the Netherlands as well. Meanwhile, yesterdays pickups have gone, goods consolidated with other importers/exporters goods, flights have left and the second boxed copy going to the Netherlands will have to catch the next flight. This is normal practice with freight companies and airlines.

 

The postage by UPS with having one copy go to the Netherlands today and another copy go two days later on a different flight is the same cost as both going at the same time. The distributor or Obsidian doesn't get a discount if both leave at the same time by UPS. You want to know why? Because there's two different consignees. That's why. And any discounts the distributor gets which they would is worked out differently.

 

Just like you or I going to UPS and sending two packages at the same time to the same country but for different people. We don't get a discount because we're now sending two packages instead of one. UPS doesn't say, 'oh wow, lucky you have that second package and I can give you a 10% discount!'.

 

 

If you're going to condescendingly mock someone, at least make sure you're using knowledge stores that don't completely overshoot the fundamental nature of the person's point.

 

  It's not condescending or mocking. You show a lack of basic understanding with freight companies and how they work. Even when I explain it to you, you won't accept it.

 

Oh, and... you're right. SORT 10,000 orders?!!! Man, that would be IMPOSSIBLE! They're just going to shrug at them like cavemen, and dump them all at a shipping facility without even attaching names or addresses to them. I mean, MAYBE if we had some sort of electronic machine that could somehow gather all that info from people and sort it in seconds... we could call it, the "computer." Yes. That's it. It would compute vast amounts of data far faster than the human brain ever could. *sigh*... Oh well. 

 

Here we go. The usual over the top hypothetical with cavemen and not attaching labels. Where did this come from? I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm using knowledge and experience on how distribution centres work. How transport companies work. Not some hypothetical that doesn't have any substance.

 

... Is there an echo in here?

 

Just you. Getting touchy?

 

 

I'm not. Why are you pretending I'm going on about specifics?

 

Because you are.

 

 

Exhibit A: my paragraph above, about how two different people's packages would probably be logistically loaded onto a single vehicle for transport to the same general area, then distributed via truck from there. That isn't "the specifics." That's quite literally the generals. That's GENERALLY how you handle moving thousands upon thousands of individual little packages all around the world, in all different directions, at the same time. You group them logistically.

 

No. So now 'general area' is it now? Not a 'specfiic' country like your Netherlands example? Nice back track but caught out.

 

So, yeah, I'm going to ask something like "If they have a big batch of products in their possession, at the same time, and they're sending them out to people at the same time, from the same place, then wouldn't they probably go out in batches, toward different regions, THEN distributed more individually from hubs?".

 

 Yes and No. Look at my answer to your 'specific' Netherlands example.

 

If that's wrong, then maybe save your paragraphs and paragraphs berating my lack of knowledge that I didn't claim to not have and being unconstructively condescending, and maybe just tell me "Hey, that's wrong. Here's how it would work, since I know." Or, you know... just keep being derisive and pointing out how much more you know than other people, without actually correcting or informing, in which case... have fun talking to yourself.

 

I did tell you that's wrong and for some reason you seem to be taking it personally. Maybe save your paragraphs and your incorrect hypotheticals for some other time.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Lephys]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Hiro. Have a good one. *tips hat*

[FacelessOne]

PE has a small budget, and this is a main reason why Obsidian will not / should not offer PE "in boxes", at least on release date. I really don't understand people which are arguing for boxed edition. I personally want Obsidian to address all resources (human/money) for creating best game! A not long ago I also was a fan of boxed games but now with platforms like STEAM, GOG etc. there is no reason for PE "to go in the box".