I need to know more about you.

[Prosper]

What is the minimum acceptable amount of dialog you want AI to have?

 

How much does it matter to you that an AI has accurate and specific details about history?

 

How many AI enabled NPC should there be in any NPC group?

 

Is it acceptable for AIs to use their advantages to dominate you?

 

What matters more: AI that strives to be creative or AI that goes with the best strategy based on a situation?

 

Finally would you be willing to accurately process the AI enabled NPCs even when they are not visible to the player ?

[BruceVC]

What is the minimum acceptable amount of dialog you want AI to have?

 

How much does it matter to you that an AI has accurate and specific details about history?

 

How many AI enabled NPC should there be in any NPC group?

 

Is it acceptable for AIs to use their advantages to dominate you?

 

What matters more: AI that strives to be creative or AI that goes with the best strategy based on a situation?

 

Finally would you be willing to accurately process the AI enabled NPCs even when they are not visible to the player ?

 

In response

What is the minimum acceptable amount of dialog you want AI to have?

 

I like dialogue so BG2 or Planescape

 

 

How much does it matter to you that an AI has accurate and specific details about history?

Not sure what you mean? In the game this should be relevant to the lore

 

How many AI enabled NPC should there be in any NPC group?

All of them, I want them to have there own personalities and views. I would like to choose who I can Romance but it must be interesting

 

Is it acceptable for AIs to use their advantages to dominate you?

Yes

 

What matters more: AI that strives to be creative or AI that goes with the best strategy based on a situation?

Creative for me

 

Finally would you be willing to accurately process the AI enabled NPCs even when they are not visible to the player ?

Not sure what you mean? I don't want to control NPC or make choices for them if they aren't in my party?

[Walsingham]

I'm a people watcher, and am fascinated by people. I don't want a smart AI. I want live characters.

 

Check out a few Noel Coward plays, you'll see what I'm talking about.

[ManifestedISO]

That's what it is! It's Skynet trying to learn our ways! It's Skynet causing this massive ridge of high pressure above our entire geographic region. All this heat and humidity is cooking the humans, but you'll never take us over! 

[anubite]

What is the minimum acceptable amount of dialog you want AI to have?

 

How much does it matter to you that an AI has accurate and specific details about history?

 

How many AI enabled NPC should there be in any NPC group?

 

Is it acceptable for AIs to use their advantages to dominate you?

 

What matters more: AI that strives to be creative or AI that goes with the best strategy based on a situation?

 

Finally would you be willing to accurately process the AI enabled NPCs even when they are not visible to the player ?

Firstly, I think it's a little misleading how you're phrasing these questions. There is no video game AI on earth that gives NPCs "accurate and specific details about history" - even Dwarf Fortress - game that's practically one of a kind in terms of actors know about the world they live in... an individual dwarf does not "know" probably more than who his parents are and the day to day dealings of his own life. And besides Dwarf Fortress, I can't think of a single game, let alone an RPG, where each actor in the world has any awareness of history that isn't hardcoded into a script some writer made.

 

If you just mean, how many dialog options each actor has, and not how much they actually "know" through some artificial intelligence, then I think it really depends. I would prefer as much breadth and depth as possible, but I'm willing to sacrifice breadth for depth. I don't expect to learn what Molly the Baker does for a living, or how she's feeling today (though such things could be easily simulated) for a general wRPG (for a fantasy life simulator, I might wish to know such things), but I do want a generally true-to-life take on her character - she shouldn't feel like a prop. Or at least, such NPCs should be fleshed out in whatever little dialogue they are given, with the budgets writers have.

 

I don't really understand your third question. How big should a group of hostile enemies be? I like large battles, but large battles tend to emphasize area of effect spells/attacks (and usually diminish the importance of a single character). They should be small. For non-hostile groups? Potentially as big as can be properly plotted for. I don't think largeness really adds much value for itself, but lots of good content is a winner.

 

Enemies should utilize the proper heuristic for the proper difficulty. If it's on the hardest difficulty, I expect AI algorithims to find the best possible approach and utilize it flawlessly.

 

AIs that are creative offer interesting gameplay situations - but a creative AI is an intelligent one. You wouldn't use a creative strategy that is less effective than a simple one, the effect of creativity or surprise should outweigh the effectiveness of a simple strategy. A good AI I think has a bit of randomness to it - it will switch between "most effeicent choice" and "most creative choice", doing neither exclusively. The goal of this is to vary gameplay.

 

Your last question is very confusing - if we're talking about Project Eternity I don't expect much at all to be simulated while actors are not present. Obsidian does not have the budget to build Mount and Blade + Dwarf Fortress + Baldur's Gate all in one game here. In an "ideal perfect RPG" I would like the game's engine to update the lives of actors everywhere, to update the state of economy and trade in the realm as well, much likfe Dwarf Fortress or Mount and Blade. But I don't expect this in a title being strung on a shoestring nor do I expect it from a successor to Baldur's Gate, which had none of that.

 

The problem with this "ideal perfect simulated world RPG" though, with full relationship, history, and economic simulation... we don't have the processing power in a single computer for that yet - not for a world that has as few as 1000 inhabitants.

 

Every entity has a relationship with /repsect to time/ with at least one other entity.

Every entity has a relationship with the economy.

Every entity must have three-dimensional path finding when they are on the present map.

Every entity must have problem solving when they are interacting with the player's hostile actions.

 

A system like this almost sounds like some big database problem - actors are all interconnected and we want frame-by-frame updates to what they're going to do. What they're going to do effects the world and how the world changes effects what they're going to do. This is incredibly expensive - definitely do-able on modern hardware, but to render graphics on top of this? I don't think so.

 

Nevermind that it would be very hard to write a linear sort of story for players in such a chaotic world as this. And we really haven't solve that whole linguistics problem with AI yet. Doubtless, such a thing won't be cheap to implement either.

 

If you don't believe me, get 200 dwarfs in Dwarf Fortress. A good i5 can handle it, but the frames start dropping. My old Core 2 Duo couldn't handle more than 50 dwarfs.

Edited September 8, 2013 by anubite

[AGX-17]

What is the minimum acceptable amount of dialog you want AI to have?

 

How much does it matter to you that an AI has accurate and specific details about history?

 

How many AI enabled NPC should there be in any NPC group?

 

Is it acceptable for AIs to use their advantages to dominate you?

 

What matters more: AI that strives to be creative or AI that goes with the best strategy based on a situation?

 

Finally would you be willing to accurately process the AI enabled NPCs even when they are not visible to the player ?

Infinite.

 

Infinite.

 

Infinite.

 

Yes.

 

If the AI is intelligent it will use the best strategy regardless of creativity.

 

Yes, my binary-code brain is fully capable and willing of accurately processing your AI constructs. Don't worry, Prosper, we all believe in you. We all know you're the one who's going to make the Matrix a reality.

Edited September 8, 2013 by AGX-17

[ManifestedISO]

Oh man, imagine truly an infinitely accurate and specifically detailed historical archive of readable data. 

[Prosper]

Every entity has a relationship with /repsect to time/ with at least one other entity.
Every entity has a relationship with the economy.
Every entity must have three-dimensional path finding when they are on the present map.
Every entity must have problem solving when they are interacting with the player's hostile actions.

That first bulletpoint is remarkably descriptive of something i accomplished.

The second bulletpoint is up to the game designer. My economies are more emergent than anything formal you might have in mind.

The third point is I think a reflection we gamers have on the history of AAA games with hiccups in the pathing technology which makes the AI look mentally deficient.

I have to forfeit the final point. There are many ways to attempt a solution to a problem that I can't afford CPUwise.

 

The third and final questions of my OP allow me to account for optimization opportunities. But I also feel for the third question if the answer is infinite, like AGX-17 suggested, the dynamics can get out of control and distort intended gameplay.

 

@ManifestedISO

"Oh man, imagine truly an infinitely accurate and specifically detailed historical archive of readable data. "

We don't need infinity we just need better.

 

@anubite

"Nevermind that it would be very hard to write a linear sort of story for players in such a chaotic world as this."

In that case the game developer's job becomes to create a very good base for the game to start from. A history.

 

@Agx17

"Yes, my binary-code brain is fully capable and willing of accurately processing your AI constructs. Don't worry, Prosper, we all believe in you. We all know you're the one who's going to make the Matrix a reality."

I do have 98% of the work finished on my AI. The AI can fool you but I can't make an entire world that fools you.

 

@Walsingham

"I'm a people watcher, and am fascinated by people. I don't want a smart AI. I want live characters.

Check out a few Noel Coward plays, you'll see what I'm talking about."

 

Live characters are too human to play the role of every AI.

 

@BruceVC

"In the game this should be relevant to the lore"

Exactly. We don't need AI that capable of  doing everything and anything in worlds they aren't apart of. Although later I have some pretty herp derp revelations for you guys about what should be possible in a well-balanced game.

 

 

@All

Interesting reads. The Dos and Donts are very important so I know what to spend my time on. Since you all have ideas about the AI, does that mean you want to design AI enabled party members? It would allow you to experiment with characters I wont necessarily think to add to the game.

 

 

Because I've officially given up trying to mod anything into Bethesda's games I'm going to share something i made on Tuesday when I was under the impression I had not given up.

struct SPosition2D
{
    signed int X;
    signed int Y;
};

struct SProperty
{
    unsigned int Type;
    signed int Value;
};

struct STime
{
    std::string Name; // if empty, start and end is displayed only
    unsigned int Start;
    unsigned int End;
};

struct SSubject
{
    unsigned int Type; // Time, Character, Object, Landmark, Cell, Region, Property
    unsigned int IndexOfThing; // its index in SAllegedEvent
    std::vector<unsigned int> Properties; // if size() == 0 then its refered to just as itself
    std::vector<bool>      ShowPropertyValue;
    std::vector<unsigned int> Prepend; // text to introduce subject (this could be individual words and phrases)
    std::vector<unsigned int> Postpend; // text to introduce after subject (this could be individual words and phrases)
};

struct SAllegedEvent
{
    std::vector<STime*>       Times;   // name and timeline
    std::vector<SCharacter*>  Persons; // name
    std::vector<SObject*>     Objects; // name
    std::vector<SLandmark*>   Landmark; // name
    std::vector<SCell*>      Areas; // name
    std::vector<SProperty*>   Properties; // names
    std::vector<SSubject>     Testimony;  
};

struct SHistory
{
    std::vector<SAllegedEvent> Events;
};

struct SCharacter
{
    std::string Name;
    std::string Description;
    SPosition2D Location;
    std::vector<SProperty>   Properties;
    SCell*        Area;
    SRegion*    Region;
    SCell*        HomeArea;
    SRegion*    HomeRegion;

    SHistory    HistoricalKnowledge;
    // depending this character's properties and personal history it tells more or less
    void Ask(SSubject* pSubject, SCharacter* whosAsking);

    // Personal Thinking about a subject has results based on character's current goals
    void Think(SSubject* pSubject);
};

struct SObject
{
    std::string Name;
    std::string Description;
    SPosition2D Location;
    std::vector<SProperty>   Properties;
    SCell*        Area;
    SRegion*    Region;
    SRegion*    HomeRegion;
    SCell*        HomeArea;
    // depeding on the character's perception and intelligence more or less is learned
    void Examine(SCharacter* pExaminer);
};

struct SLandmark
{
    std::string Name;
    std::string Description;
    SPosition2D Location;
    std::vector<SProperty>   Properties;
    SCell*        Area;
    SRegion*    Region;
    // depeding on the character's perception and intelligence more or less is learned
    void Examine(SCharacter* pExaminer);
};

struct SCell
{
    std::string Name;
    std::string Description;
    SPosition2D Location;    
    SRegion*    Region;
    std::vector<SCharacter*> Entities;
    std::vector<SObject*> Objects;
    std::vector<SLandmark*> Landmarks;    
};

struct SRegion
{
    std::string Name;
    std::string Description;
    std::vector<SCell*> Cells;
    std::vector<SCharacter*> Entities;
    std::vector<SLandmark*> Landmarks;
};

*  I didn't include my code for goals because that must be kept secret it's too close to my AI.

I'll explain the code after I get some pizza. This is unrelated to the AI but still pretty significant wrappings for gameplay.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Prosper

[BruceVC]

@ Prosper

I have to say I admire your commitment to this game you want to build.

 

Just to be clear are you working on a game or is this something you are interested in and want to understand the logistics and user feedback is part of that?

[Tagaziel]

It's Prosper. You can never tell, since he considers himself a misunderstood genius, persecuted whenever someone asks for results to go with all that smoke and mirrors.

[Prosper]

@ Prosper

I have to say I admire your commitment to this game you want to build.

 

Just to be clear are you working on a game or is this something you are interested in and want to understand the logistics and user feedback is part of that?

All your purpose are belong to AI. Maybe it's because I have no social life, but the more I see my AI can do the more I question if people will feel the same gameplay barriers we experiencE IRL.

 

Maybe one way to introduce this game and its genre is to introduce people to many different AI worlds. By stacking them together I think I can reach Jupiter from here. Sorry Mr Molyneux. I'm experience visions. Solutions to my problems are entering my mind right now. I need to laydown until they crystalize.

[Prosper]

From where I sit all that's left to do is to decide what stories should the AI represent? Or what AI should represent what stories? This is a profound realization. It may be hard to believe but I am actually that far done.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Prosper