I want another Bowser or Gannon

[JFSOCC]

Maybe you could complete a great task instead.

[cleric Nemir]

Maybe you could complete a great task instead.

 

Your post,first on this page,proposes a task-like climactic battle,but it isn't all that different than "fighting ultimate evils". Messier's post below shows some fine examples.. that aren't all that different except for that "kill everyone",when you think of it. It's still You vs. big bad enemy/group. All the choices that are really relevant are left for that moment,which kinda nulls the whole process of getting there,IMO.

[cleric Nemir]

Here's the thing. Whether it is a single body or a government type,societies tend to have some form of leadership at it's core.

So when the sh*t hits the fan,it will be in close connection to that core,be it ruler or rulers,and varieties of the sh*t can come down to:

 

a) it originated from that core

b) it is aimed towards it by an outside/inside party or event  ,and

c) is still in progress (the 'game of thrones' version).

 

So when a player and his party,as they advance trough game and gain power,become well known troughout the land,they also become well known and observed-with-intention by every powerful body in said land. What it means is that when the sh*t hits,you're gonna be there.

 

And there you go,you're flipping a coin.

 

In a) and b) situations,you can only start the real flippin' when the situation reaches climax,all the small flips up until that moment seem irrelevant. But it has a story,and that story can be nevertheless brilliant. Still,in ending provided by a) or b),you know the real choice will come just there,at the very end.

 

Your character is not required to be of any particular race, cultural background, sex, class, moral outlook, personality, organization, etc. The premise is that you are a victim of circumstance. How you choose to deal with your situation is up to you. You can bear it with stoicism and restraint or fly off in a rage at anyone who gets in your way. The world will react to your choices, but the game is designed to give you the freedom to play your character the way you want to

 

See,this also cannot be a description of  PS:T character,only partially. That game offered us a unique ideas at a cost of being even more linear. Not a bad tradeoff for some cool endings,but PE is not gonna be like PS:T , T:ToN is,and it is suited for that kind of concept. 

 

That's what's bothering me in fantasy cRPGs like Baldur's,Icewinds,etc. Do we have to have a sh*tstorm at some point? I said I cannot properly imagine an equally good ending for classic fantasy cRPG,but I noticed something else.

 

Situation c). I cannot think of a game that explored this potential. Lionheart had it going but blew it.

That is what really begs my focus here,because I feel that we can flip alot coins in there. For example,let's say there are 6 factions in the game world. They may not necessarily be factions or 6 in number,but let's build on that.

Six factions that vary in power level and personal goals and roles in the existing world. Slowly,you and your party arise to become a sort of an 7th faction,and (this is to be a deep-ingame moment,let's imagine you completed a great deed) the path to those 6 most influential factions is opened. You are now in a position to gain knowledge of their affairs,and able to react to each and every affair the way you find pleasing to your persona.

 

Stronghold fits inhere perfectly. You are based,they are based-let the games begin.

You have a whole 6 unique "badass" characters and their stronghold-like bases and manpower to deal with as you damn please. Side AND main quests for each faction-pacts,contract jobs,experiments,rituals,disputes and wars among them that affect the whole land..  Possible outcomes - numerous,because there's gonna be heavy choices all over,and they all change the setting into something different.

 

And the story? Think of it as a puzzle-set of smaller stories that you combine into a meaningful outcome,completely based on action/reaction (example: you helped rise the faction of Glanfathan Ciphers,and lend your stronghold's forces+sidequest aditions when they battled for the free palatinate of Dyrwood(and won,yay),amassing an army that marches to destroy Aedyr empire,as you successfully helped your fellow Ciphers sign a war pact with Vailians(I hope I did this part correctly  ). Feel free to insert "dragons" somewhere,ehueheheh   Key scene: breached to the capitol and the castle,they come out to: surrender,be banished or die.  //////  The sh*tstormless version is that you manage to unite all land in peaceful&loving community,going about from faction to faction and finding solutions to problems,etc. Would love to see it most cause it would no doubt be the hardest way to complete the game   Key scene: arranging a peace treaty between the fractions leaders done a la NWN2 trial (and in the end left with "I sure owned that fukers" feeling   )).

At the end,when one of the possible key moments is presented and dealt with,there goes your ending-scene with a recap of what went and what stayed,and a glimpse of what future holds,the future you made by choices you selected trough gameplay. You may end as a tyrant ruler of all,or goody two shoes member of the United whatever council,yet earl or no more than a knight,under whichever faction you supported.You may destroy all and erect zombieland,or give it all up and go raise a tribe somewhere. Or set sail and become a pirate,yolo.

 

And that's it,no king of shadows or nothing. Sure,bestial/demonic/undead sort of bosses and epic battles,but not a final one.

 

The point is that,when I think about it,I would better enjoy that puzzle-set of smaller stories within the world of PE rather than a major plot story that is predetermined. As I would love a SET of different "badass" characters (and be able to decide if friend/enemy) more than one ultimate badassery.

Edited November 10, 2013 by cleric Nemir

[Cubiq]

Isnt this kind of pointless to talk about? i'm sure they had the story already written in pre-production since that is pretty much the building block of everything.

[cleric Nemir]

If figured it can't hurt to post some observations. They may have a complete story,and may not. Most stories themselves start as an idea (building block of a building block sorta thing) around which you shape them ,constantly adding or removing material to finalize a perfect brick. Nothing is final until it's final, get what I'm sayin'?

 

My aim was also to spark theories, ideas about different approaches,if some of us can think of any at all. Maybe this'll give some new idea to someone somewhere ,if not to the devs themselves. 

[JFSOCC]

 

Maybe you could complete a great task instead.

 

Your post,first on this page,proposes a task-like climactic battle,but it isn't all that different than "fighting ultimate evils". Messier's post below shows some fine examples.. that aren't all that different except for that "kill everyone",when you think of it. It's still You vs. big bad enemy/group. All the choices that are really relevant are left for that moment,which kinda nulls the whole process of getting there,IMO.

 

You're right, my examples were in a different direction. I still think a grand task is something you can do. It might involve no combat at all. two different alternative solutions, do not confuse.

[cleric Nemir]

 

 

Maybe you could complete a great task instead.

 

Your post,first on this page,proposes a task-like climactic battle,but it isn't all that different than "fighting ultimate evils". Messier's post below shows some fine examples.. that aren't all that different except for that "kill everyone",when you think of it. It's still You vs. big bad enemy/group. All the choices that are really relevant are left for that moment,which kinda nulls the whole process of getting there,IMO.

 

You're right, my examples were in a different direction. I still think a grand task is something you can do. It might involve no combat at all. two different alternative solutions, do not confuse.

 

 

Completing a task at ending sounds like something heavily story driven,which means, if I understood it, there's a background story to it, furthermore suggesting some major event or such, as why you are to perform that task. Yes,it can be different than facing ending evil characters, with a good story and all, but linearity is still very present. You get to choose a solution to that task, so it's another choice that comes down at the end. Linearity is my real problem here. I would rather have heavy choices set to us before so we can reach different endings entirely, not one single situation set by some major story as an ending one.

 

Still,give me an example of your task ending, so I can get a better picture, if it's not too much to ask. I'm interested to hear it.

[JFSOCC]

Who says there is only one method to complete the task?

 

There is starvation in the empire of Hungry, you can:

Work to end the war which is a drain on the resources of the nation

Improve the farming practices to suit the colonies different environment, increasing crop yields and preventing crop failure

Set up alliances with neighbouring nations to trade against the food-shortages

Use the hunger to take over (parts of) the empire and claim them for yourself

Let the damn peasants starve and recruit new people to settle the colonies, eventually the pioneers must get it right without my help.

Evacuate the starving masses to more fertile pastures, deeper in-land, away from the coast.

Create surpluses in summer to help in winter.

Increase the fertility of the land by supplicating a deity concerned with fertility or farming.

Fight the neighbouring nations and take their resources for your own!

 

I'm sure you can come up with different solutions yourself.

[cleric Nemir]

Who says there is only one method to complete the task?

 

There is starvation in the empire of Hungry, you can:

Work to end the war which is a drain on the resources of the nation

Improve the farming practices to suit the colonies different environment, increasing crop yields and preventing crop failure

Set up alliances with neighbouring nations to trade against the food-shortages

Use the hunger to take over (parts of) the empire and claim them for yourself

Let the damn peasants starve and recruit new people to settle the colonies, eventually the pioneers must get it right without my help.

Evacuate the starving masses to more fertile pastures, deeper in-land, away from the coast.

Create surpluses in summer to help in winter.

Increase the fertility of the land by supplicating a deity concerned with fertility or farming.

Fight the neighbouring nations and take their resources for your own!

 

I'm sure you can come up with different solutions yourself.

 

I think you just made a damn fine example  . The task is there as a final goal, it isn't forcing the player and you can play trough it the way you really want.

Hungry is at war, people are starving - choose your approach. You're a barbarian type: you go str8 to fight that war. If you are a rogue - plunder the neighbors. You're a knight type, but a pacifist one: you enter the role of a caravan defender while starving people are being evacuated, and defend the new settlement in a foreign environment. Druid? Commune with the land itself to find the means of making it farm-friendly. Etc. More than enough space left for side quests and arch-enemies.

Again,major plus in that you play trough it the way you feel suits you, for the entire duration of the game, without being forced to just participate in that war, because war. And even wars can be resolved in many different ways without one being directly in it.

 

It really is a good example on how a game can offer freedom of choice with a fixed goal in the background, JFSOCC. I'm glad I asked.

[Gyges]

A non-cliche/obvious, "i do bad things because I'm bad" antagonist would be very much appreciated. Its among the pillars that makes the distinction between a mediocre and a great plot. Make him sympathetic even and you've gone a longer way than most developers do. I just hate it when all i do is steamroll the antagonist and feel nothing about doing it. No relief, sympathy, sorrow, anger or anything. Exactly because an antagonist is the bad guy, they tend to get left out in terms of character development.

Make us invest ourselves in the antagonist and it will pay back a thousand-fold in immersion.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Gyges