Melee characters that can cause status effects.

[Labadal]

It's something that we already have seen before, like monks stunning opponents, barbarians causing fear and other things like that. But I would like to see more stuff like this.

 

-The rouge could blind an enemy for a brief moment by throwing dirt in his opponents eyes.

-Instead of fear, we could have the status effect Panic. The opponent that gets panicked attacks everything in sight, friend and foe. Or he runs away, it could be many different random effects.

-One could disable an opponent, ie: if you are using a broadsword, hitting the enemy with it slightly above the ear will not do damage, but would still help in a fight. Or if a monk does that attack with an open palm.

-A powerful shield bash might make an enemy fall over.

-Why not have the rogue trip an opponent?

 

I really like having the option for melee fighters to do these things. Limit it to a few possible effects per class and I would be happy enough.

 

 

[Lephys]

I wouldn't really say it's restricted to melee attack effects (even though that's what you're focusing on here), but I really like the idea of a Panic effect. Maybe it produces a %chance, every 3 seconds or so (since we're real-time here and not turn-based), to cause the affected character/creature to use an ability at random. The affected target might even buff an opponent, or cast an AOE spell on a melee target when his allies are nearby. You'd want to get people away from a Panicked character, and/or calm them quickly.

 

Also, more directly in relation to melee effects, I'd very much like to see more abilities and attacks, in general, impact location. Maybe a shield bash, for example, could knock someone over, OR they can actually partially "resist" it (save versus the force of the attack or whatever) and simply stagger backwards a step or two. This way, you could even push opponents into other opponents, or off of ledges, or into corners, etc. This especially ties very well into the melee engagement system that's been described.

 

And YES for tripping! 8D

Edited July 2, 2013 by Lephys

[Iron_JG]

I like the idea of all characters being able to inflict status effects -- aside from the more "normal" effects described above, I'd wager some of the supernatural, soul-related talents Obsidian has teased will address this. Warriors often have stun, stagger, intimidation and similar effects, so I wouldn't be surprised if those made it in there. That kind of versatility would be really cool and diversify game play a lot. Personally, I'd like for defense-oriented characters to get 'riposte' or some sort of proc-based counter attack on melee opponents. I also think it would be cool for fighters or rogues to get a "hamper spell-casting" attack which, well, hampers spell-casting. It would be cool if these and other talents started out as fairly realistic techniques, but their development could branch off into normal or magical forms. A normal rogue might refine their anti-spell attacks to be usable more often in combat, while a magic-based rogue might be able to attack in such a way that spells damage the caster (in exchange for not being able to use the ability as often, or something similar).

 

Still, the tricky part with these nuanced abilities is that they shouldn't function properly against certain creatures. Gigantic creatures or creatures with strange anatomies should be difficult/impossible to stun, knock down, stagger and so forth. While this degree of nuance would be cool, it could also lead the player to avoid taking abilities they know won't help them in really hard fights. Woe to the rogue who expects to trip a dragon, y'know? I'm not sure what Obsidian's comfort level is for abilities easily invalidated by monster diversity, which the game should have.

 

One last thought: It will be important for these abilities to remain useful throughout the game as well. I think that means the numbers should scale in some way and/or there should consistently be enemies vulnerable to them. Percentage based penalties might be the way to go -- a knocked down fighter loses 30 percent of defense instead of -3 AC, or something.

[Lephys]

Still, the tricky part with these nuanced abilities is that they shouldn't function properly against certain creatures. Gigantic creatures or creatures with strange anatomies should be difficult/impossible to stun, knock down, stagger and so forth. While this degree of nuance would be cool, it could also lead the player to avoid taking abilities they know won't help them in really hard fights. Woe to the rogue who expects to trip a dragon, y'know? I'm not sure what Obsidian's comfort level is for abilities easily invalidated by monster diversity, which the game should have.

I think it would be really cool if there was a way (not always, mind you) to stun/trip/knockdown most things, but it wasn't always the same method.

 

Like, maybe a power attack from a sword has no effect (other than some damage) on some giant beast's head, but a boulder-crush spell could still have a chance to do the trick. Or maybe even some kind of explosive/concussive Rogue grenade. But that grenade, when used on a man-sized adversary, would most-likely knock them down or at least stagger them.

 

Similarly, a trip-based ability wouldn't function on some huge beast, BUT, maybe using a powerful knockback spell on its legs could cause it to lose its footing/balance and actually collapse.

 

And, while we're at it, maybe things like Entangle, while intended for a single target of a certain size, wouldn't be able to be used on a huge creature, entirely, but COULD be used on a single leg/tail, etc. Entagle the hind right leg, and it can't move away from that leg. It can still turn about a bit, and move some to get at people with all it's hugeness and whatnot, but it can't actually move that foot/leg until it break the entanglement. Entangle a large tail, and the creature can no longer tail lash/sweep people and would similarly be partially hindered in movement. It might even become temporarily staggered or fall over if it tries to move too much, since creatures with tails generally rely upon their tail for a degree of balance.

[JFSOCC]

Status effects were what made Guild Wars combat interesting and tactical. having them in P:E wuld not be remiss, but then, I don't doubt we'll have them.

[Amberion]

It's something that we already have seen before, like monks stunning opponents, barbarians causing fear and other things like that. But I would like to see more stuff like this.

 

-The rouge could blind an enemy for a brief moment by throwing dirt in his opponents eyes.

-Instead of fear, we could have the status effect Panic. The opponent that gets panicked attacks everything in sight, friend and foe. Or he runs away, it could be many different random effects.

-One could disable an opponent, ie: if you are using a broadsword, hitting the enemy with it slightly above the ear will not do damage, but would still help in a fight. Or if a monk does that attack with an open palm.

-A powerful shield bash might make an enemy fall over.

-Why not have the rogue trip an opponent?

 

I really like having the option for melee fighters to do these things. Limit it to a few possible effects per class and I would be happy enough.

-rogue. though tossing rouge at the enemy would probably do the same thing.

-IE games had a morale failure mechanic which did something similar.

-hitting someone 'slightly above the ear' with a broadsword has a high chance of decapitation.

-a shield bash is more likely to temporarily break past an opponent's defenses(think, bash the enemy with your shield, causing them to stumble back, arms flying backward, defenseless.

-tripping might not work very well in combat. Too easy to jump over an outstretched leg, also leaves the rogue badly exposed.

[Amentep]

I'll never understand the need for mechanics that say "this class can bend down, scoop up dirt and throw it in the eyes of others, but this other class cannot".

 

What is class specific about tossing dirt into somebody's eyes?

[Prometheus]

I think monks will be able to do a lot of status effects. see quotes below:

Barbarians focus on damage to groups (essentially melee AoE), monks convert incoming damage into status effects, and fighters are defenders/line-holders (kind of like 4E earthstrength wardens). None of those classes have the single-target damage potential of rogues or rangers, but they're all better at dealing with groups and they can all take hits better and for longer.

 

Monks are a good counter [against rogues] because they use Wounds to power their special abilities and a lot of their special abilities pump out status effects that can sucker punch a rogue's weaker defenses (like Psyche)

 

They can't hold a position against melee enemies like fighters, they can't deal close-range AoE damage to a group like barbarians, they have no support abilities like paladins, and they don't have the wacky status effects and damage absorption of monks.

 

I don't think it's a good idea if all melee classes can deal status effects. If all classes have the same abillities why do we have classes?

Edited July 2, 2013 by Prometheus

[Labadal]

I'll never understand the need for mechanics that say "this class can bend down, scoop up dirt and throw it in the eyes of others, but this other class cannot".

 

What is class specific about tossing dirt into somebody's eyes?

I was more thinking of dirty fighting. Of course everyone can throw dirt in an opponents eyes. Maybe he pokes the opponent in the eye. Maybe he bites his ear, lol. Moves that will surprise your opponent.

[Labadal]

 

 

It's something that we already have seen before, like monks stunning opponents, barbarians causing fear and other things like that. But I would like to see more stuff like this.

 

-The rouge could blind an enemy for a brief moment by throwing dirt in his opponents eyes.

-Instead of fear, we could have the status effect Panic. The opponent that gets panicked attacks everything in sight, friend and foe. Or he runs away, it could be many different random effects.

-One could disable an opponent, ie: if you are using a broadsword, hitting the enemy with it slightly above the ear will not do damage, but would still help in a fight. Or if a monk does that attack with an open palm.

-A powerful shield bash might make an enemy fall over.

-Why not have the rogue trip an opponent?

 

I really like having the option for melee fighters to do these things. Limit it to a few possible effects per class and I would be happy enough.

-hitting someone 'slightly above the ear' with a broadsword has a high chance of decapitation.

Not if you hit with the flat side.

[Amentep]

 

I'll never understand the need for mechanics that say "this class can bend down, scoop up dirt and throw it in the eyes of others, but this other class cannot".

 

What is class specific about tossing dirt into somebody's eyes?

I was more thinking of dirty fighting. Of course everyone can throw dirt in an opponents eyes. Maybe he pokes the opponent in the eye. Maybe he bites his ear, lol. Moves that will surprise your opponent.

 

Realistically though, since the thing you don't want to do in mortal combat is to prolong a fight, wouldn't everyone want to fight dirty and end the fight as quickly as they could?

 

I understand that rogues typically have gotten combat bonuses flanking and backstabbing and other melee things that don't really make sense (a fighter with a sword stabbing a back is going to be just as stabby as a rogue, really) and I love the idea of being able to blind, hamstring (slow), disarm, etc. but I'm not sure I see it as being important to be class specific (beyond, maybe, some classes being more likely to succeed because their stats tend to favor certain moves?)

[Labadal]

 

 

I'll never understand the need for mechanics that say "this class can bend down, scoop up dirt and throw it in the eyes of others, but this other class cannot".

 

What is class specific about tossing dirt into somebody's eyes?

I was more thinking of dirty fighting. Of course everyone can throw dirt in an opponents eyes. Maybe he pokes the opponent in the eye. Maybe he bites his ear, lol. Moves that will surprise your opponent.

 

Realistically though, since the thing you don't want to do in mortal combat is to prolong a fight, wouldn't everyone want to fight dirty and end the fight as quickly as they could?

 

I understand that rogues typically have gotten combat bonuses flanking and backstabbing and other melee things that don't really make sense (a fighter with a sword stabbing a back is going to be just as stabby as a rogue, really) and I love the idea of being able to blind, hamstring (slow), disarm, etc. but I'm not sure I see it as being important to be class specific (beyond, maybe, some classes being more likely to succeed because their stats tend to favor certain moves?)

 

 

It wouldn't have to be class specific, it was just a suggestion of some actions could be possible.

 

I agree sneak attacks doesn't make sense, but I guess they have them to differentiate the different classes. Having a monk, fighter, barbarian, paladin and a rogue would mean that the classes would have to play a bit differently.