Lessons (that should be) learned from other games

[Sacred_Path]

I've seen this topic brought up in several threads, but they usually focused on one particular game; so I thought a more comprehensive thread is in order. Wether you think P:E should take cues from a certain game or avoid following its example. I'll start with two older games I've been replaying, mostly because these really bothered me lately.

 

 

Might and Magic VII

 

In this game you're provided with a default party of Knight/ Thief/ Cleric/ Sorceror. I suspect that during the conceiving phase of this game, these four classes were what the other (another 5) classes were based on as far as skills and equipment go. While this should supposedly make for some variety in party building, in most cases, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you stray from the default party. It's simply the most effective combination for dealing with the different challenges you'll face.

Something similar has been hinted at in P:E, with the "core four" being the gold standard the other classes are measured against. Granted, P:E will in all likelihood allow for a much greater variety of characters even within one class, but I still think we could fall into this trap; especially if, for the benefit of more casual players, it's ensured that "you can't go wrong with fighter/ rogue/ priest/ wizard". 

 

 

Wizardry 8

 

Due to either an oversight or bad reasoning, alchemy allows you to gain unlimited gold right at the start of the game. This is especially good/ bad because you can actually put that money to good use in W8, buying not only powerful weapons and armor right away but also powerful potions, bombs, scrolls, and unlimited means of resurrection. Now, if you're playing on Expert Ironman, the game can still be challenging; but this doesn't gloss over the fact that, without having to manage your ressources, something vitally interesting about squad-level tactics gets lost. It's especially comical because in W8, as in pretty much every CRPG and probably in P:E also, gold is a trail of bread crumbs you're conditioned to follow. With gold being meaningless, a lot of incentives given by the game make no sense anymore (of course it doesn't help that XP from grinding is also far more plentiful than XP from quests - this lesson has already been learned).

Therefore, my advice is to limit the players ressources wherever possible, rather than upping the odds against them - I'd rather have to think wisely about what enemy to use my arrow of carnage on, rather than having 40 of them but being swarmed by an entire Orcish war band.

[Ulquiorra]

I also think that some thing shoud be lerned from other games.

 

Gothic 2 night of the raven

 

Problablz one of the best made fractions the best was mercs. also crafting system.

 

Fallout NV

 

Also well done fractions

 

Kamidori Achemist Masiter

 

This is a Eroge BUT in this game zou are also shop owner and craftsman, propablz best made shop owning simulation and simple economisc made in games.

 

Final Fantasy 7

 

For characters and main plot

 

Witcher 1

 

Also plot and main character but also minigames ... not mentioning the best DRUNK simulation ...

 

Dragon age orgins

 

For orgins .. the best ones was Dwarv Noble and human Noble also citz elf was good ...

 

Skyrim

 

God werewolf simulation, and open world also crafting system.

 

Jade Cocoon

 

Propablz noone know this game, this game was like crosover beteen pokemon and final fantasz this dark athmosphere, more mature. Plot was simple and linear, but i donąt know  ... this game had so friking athmosphere i remember it to this day ...

 

 

Vampire Masquarade Bloodlines

 

For dark world, characters and main plot ...

 

 

of course i did not mention BG BG2 and planscape and all DD games.

 

 

 

and at the end

 

Fable 1

 

Becouse of zou character develobment, your character gain muscules if he was madeing progess in fighting stylez, and change your apierience based on your actions ... damn even if you get slahed by sword you got a scar ...

[Sensuki]

No minigames. Just no.

 

And I thought the Dragon Age Origin stories were a good concept, but all of them were absolutely laughably terrible IMO (some more than others). Project Eternity is going to have one starting location, the prologue will be something about you witnessing a supernatural event.

 

I can tell you there definitely won't be any drunk mode.

 

Unless those were examples of what not to do

[Ulquiorra]

No minigames. Just no.

 

And I thought the Dragon Age Origin stories were a good concept, but all of them were absolutely laughably terrible IMO (some more than others). Project Eternity is going to have one starting location, the prologue will be something about you witnessing a supernatural event.

 

I can tell you there definitely won't be any drunk mode.

 

Unless those were examples of what not to do

 

You know dragon age orgins was only and example and propably BEST made orgins ever .. but not to many orgins was made so far so ...

 

No it PE will propablz not have drunk mode .. but if it does ... witcher or fable mode was best ...

 

in these two i cant say they where made 100% good .. but best so far ..so ..

[Felithvian]

Final Fantasy 7

 

For characters and main plot

 

[Ulquiorra]

 

Final Fantasy 7

 

For characters and main plot

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Baldur's Gate

 

One thing I really enjoy about this game is that the "main" quests are not obviously main quests. I really hate it when a game tells me which quests are important to the main story and which are just side quests.

[redneckdevil]

morrowind.

 

Different ways to complete main quest.

Guilds felt like guilds in u was doing what the guild would normally do.

Atmosphere.

Very likeable strangeness.

grey charecters. The good guys were technically the bad guys and the bad guy had good intentions depending on what race u were.

[Prometheus]

Skyrim

 

the equipment/crafting was too powerful. you could make/buy equipment, that spells from a school cost 25% less mana. You could equip four pieces of this, so you could cast spells of a school without mana costs. I didn't like the leveled and randomized merchants.

[exodiark]

Obsidian games:

- Overall
Mature writing of characters. So people can relate or sympathize to even the most evillest characters.
Story that doesn't judge. (You betrayed [Home Nation]? Well I'm sure you have your own reasons, but here are the consequences, both negative and positive)

- Fallout New Vegas
Vibrant warring factions ready to stick a sword to each others' throat.
Dark humor and tasteful popular art reference
Great, mature handling of sensitive materials, like slavery, nationalism, religion, and etc. This is especially so, because Fallout's lore is heavily based on real life.

- Alpha Protocol
Timed dialogue in stressful conditions (The cave is collapsing fast! What will you do? (5 seconds))
Pre-mission preparations (Sabotaging pork shipment before attacking a fortress will ease things up, intercepting ale shipment will increase the intensity of riots, etc)
Reactive, believable NPCs (If you're nice to guard A, he will not tell his underpaying boss about your intrusion)
Evil choices that makes you feel really, really awesome.

- Dungeon Siege 3
Great map design
Reinhart-like character (Sci-fi element in High Fantasy)

- Neverwinter Nights 2 - OC
Humor, definitely its humor. It ranges from high brow to low brow.
Crossroad Keep

- Neverwinter Nights 2 - Mask of the Betrayer
Intellectual, multi-faceted story
Diverse three dimensional companion. Especially one-of-many like character.
Evil choices that makes you feel really, really bad.

- KOTOR 2
Tasteful and total deconstruction of common high fantasy tropes
That feel when you realized that your companion is manipulating you. (You don't influence Kreia, Kreia influences you and makes you go neutral if you want to gain her approval)

Edited June 9, 2013 by exodiark

[Pshaw]

XCom: enemny unknown, FFT, Valkyria Chronicles ect:
I know these are turn based games but try and make the combat in the game fun and interesting in and of itself so in 10 years this game will still be fun to play for more than it's story/characters. Adding depth the combat, high ground advantage, cover advantage, Rock>Paper>Scissors biases, and so forth lead to a more interesting and worthwhile combat experience.  So often I find myself having a hard time going back to play old RPGs because the combat is just too clunky and boring and it detracts from the whole experience.

Bioware games, ME, DA, BG:

Let choices from this game carry over and effect potential sequels.

Skyrim:
The sense of exploration. I usually prefer ignoring quests and just delving into dungeons and caves to see what I can find. Cool place, powerful monsters and loot. These things drive me to explore every nook of the world.

[PrimeJunta]

I actually liked one of the DA:O origin stories. Only one though, and the disappointment was that much bigger when the game completely failed to build on any of it.

 

Which one, I hear you asking?

 

Dwarf noble. 

 

Why?

 

Because it's the only time ever, in any computer game, that I've seen a believable depiction of an ancient caste-based society in all its hidebound, backstabbing glory. Hell, the lower castes aren't even allowed to look at you, let alone address you, and  you talk to them through an intermediary (when you have to). Seriously good stuff.

 

And then it all fell apart with that dudebro back-slappy king and the rest of it. The return to Ommazzaarrooammhmm or whatever it was called was the same ol' superficial fake-caste-pap as ever, compleat with the democratic egalitarian good-guy dudebro who would make it all better and practically sign the Bill of Rights, Declaration of the Rights of Dwarf, and the Constitution all at once. 

 

That alone makes DA:O one of the bigger let-downs for me among computer games actually.