Sweden riots

[obyknven]

A week of nightly riots has left Sweden reeling. But these riots show true nature of Scandinavian model of "socialism". In past week Lefty youths with oppressed emigrants fight against police and Swedish neo-nazi ( and Russian neo-nazi too, they send own fighters to participate in this, almost all Russian ultra-right movements funded  from "socialistic" Scandinavia ) . After this any talks about socialism (it's obvious substitution of concepts, socialism = communism by Marx, bourgeois governments just use mask of "socialism" for hide own true nature, but ignorance of people is high and many don't recognize lie ) in Scandinavia become laughable.

 

Media blah-blah-blah about evil youths.

http://youtu.be/JmiW66mmTtg

[HoonDing]

I blame global warming.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Drudanae

[Rosbjerg]

It could be an interesting topic, but not so much in a "failed socialism" context.

[Gorgon]

Is it the Rudolf Hess march ?. Swedish Nazis, lol.

 

Anyway they come from all over Europe to throw bricks at them, have been for decades now, it's quite the party if you are into that sort of thing.

[obyknven]

It could be an interesting topic, but not so much in a "failed socialism" context.

I don't talk about "failed socialism" in Scandinavia. I say socialism in Scandinavia is never been, it's just propagandistic myth. They are just yet another opportunists, who crying crocodile tears about proletariat, but IRL protects interests of capital. 

[Gorgon]

No wait, it's another march in Sweden. Rudof Hess was borderline retarded. Seems a suitable tribute for Nazis.

[obyknven]

Is it the Rudolf Hess march ?. Swedish Nazis, lol.

 

Anyway they come from all over Europe to throw bricks at them, have been for decades now, it's quite the party if you are into that sort of thing.

 

For example this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=529118850477809&set=a.529118763811151.1073741858.212020558854308&type=1&theater

[Gorgon]

It's easy to forget, but the early Nazi membership, the brownshirts, were all street brawlers who would fight with communist youth. A bit too unpredictable. Once he didn't need them anymore Hitler created the SS.

[Walsingham]

It's easy to forget, but the early Nazi membership, the brownshirts, were all street brawlers who would fight with communist youth. A bit too unpredictable. Once he didn't need them anymore Hitler created the SS.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Who's actually rioting?

Edited May 28, 2013 by Drowsy Emperor

[Gorgon]

To go back on topic, the Swedes have been somewhat surpised that after creating low income housing and after immigrant families started living there to the exclusion of most everyone else they turned into what is know in American gangster rap venacular as 'projects'.

 

Granted they are pretty nice projects compared to most places, but it's all entirely predictable.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Immigrants from the ghetto?

 

I read that they're getting 2000+ euros (welfare benefits) per month for a family of four, free education + healthcare.  What are they rioting about?

 

Families in Serbia live  subsist on 400 euros per month earned money - (no benefits or meagre ones).

 

Granted everything is more expensive in Sweden, but I don't think its that much.

[Meshugger]

Just to point out to the rest of the forum, there was practically one fight with a "medborgargarde" (=meaning some nationalists in their own neighbourhood) after like 5 nights of cars burning, stones throwing and general arson. 

 

The cause is having immigrants packed in neighbourhoods (not ghettos) that have absolutely no future since the ones doing this are petty criminals that don't even have a driver's license since they either have 1) a criminal records or 2) are analphabets that cannot even finish high-school because they are simply too dumb. Combine it with a nice welfare-state and them blaming everyone but themselves for their own mistakes, leaving them not even really rioting, they are just "having som fun with the cops". 

 

You reap what sow Sweden.

[Labadal]

Just to point out to the rest of the forum, there was practically one fight with a "medborgargarde" (=meaning some nationalists in their own neighbourhood) after like 5 nights of cars burning, stones throwing and general arson. 

 

The cause is having immigrants packed in neighbourhoods (not ghettos) that have absolutely no future since the ones doing this are petty criminals that don't even have a driver's license since they either have 1) a criminal records or 2) are analphabets that cannot even finish high-school because they are simply too dumb. Combine it with a nice welfare-state and them blaming everyone but themselves for their own mistakes, leaving them not even really rioting, they are just "having som fun with the cops". 

 

You reap what sow Sweden.

 

Ouch. This post is 100% accurate.

[Drowsy Emperor]

No, the evil far right nationalists are to blame.

 

Right?

Edited May 28, 2013 by Drowsy Emperor

[Labadal]

No, the evil far right nationalists are to blame.

 

Right?

 

I wouldn't say so and I'm an immigrant. There are some real ****heads that should be deported asap. Instead we decide to deport people that actually want to work. Three friends of mine were deported. They all had crap jobs, working 10-12 hour shifts just to be able to live here. Good enough? Nope. Let's bring in people that only get here because they know they'll get money even if they don't work. 

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

No, the evil far right nationalists are to blame.

 

Right?

 

I wouldn't say so and I'm an immigrant. There are some real ****heads that should be deported asap. Instead we decide to deport people that actually want to work. Three friends of mine were deported. They all had crap jobs, working 10-12 hour shifts just to be able to live here. Good enough? Nope. Let's bring in people that only get here because they know they'll get money even if they don't work. 

 

 

I was of course, being sarcastic.

[Labadal]

 

 

No, the evil far right nationalists are to blame.

 

Right?

 

I wouldn't say so and I'm an immigrant. There are some real ****heads that should be deported asap. Instead we decide to deport people that actually want to work. Three friends of mine were deported. They all had crap jobs, working 10-12 hour shifts just to be able to live here. Good enough? Nope. Let's bring in people that only get here because they know they'll get money even if they don't work. 

 

 

I was of course, being sarcastic.

 

 

I know. The funny thing that there are people blaming them.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

No, the evil far right nationalists are to blame.

 

Right?

 

I wouldn't say so and I'm an immigrant. There are some real ****heads that should be deported asap. Instead we decide to deport people that actually want to work. Three friends of mine were deported. They all had crap jobs, working 10-12 hour shifts just to be able to live here. Good enough? Nope. Let's bring in people that only get here because they know they'll get money even if they don't work. 

 

 

I was of course, being sarcastic.

 

 

I know. The funny thing that there are people blaming them.

 

 

They're a convenient scapegoat. Its easier to lay down the blame on a dozen skinheads (whom everyone hates and is apt to believe anything that they're blamed for) than admit every single policy and the entire ideology behind  it - for god knows how many years was wrong and misguided. 

[obyknven]

Three friends of mine were deported. They all had crap jobs, working 10-12 hour shifts just to be able to live here.

Wonderful example of Stockholm (really colonial) syndrome. They can rioting against oppression and unequality, but instead of this try work harder? They think white master award them? But instead of this he kicked them from Sweden and import new naive idiots. Losers choose their own destiny.

[Labadal]

That's what happens when people stop thinking for themselves and belive whatever propaganda is spread by polititians and media.

[Rostere]

A few remarks, corrections and clarifications by the Obsidian board official representative from Stockholm:

 

I wouldn't call any of this "protest" of "demonstration" in a classical sense. The guys who are out on the street follow no ideology and they don't have any political manifesto. The closest analogy to what is happening was what happened in London last summer. These are neither political anarchists or leftists nor radical Muslims as some people would have you believe.

 

The people who are out on the streets are suburban youth who have nothing to lose. When they throw rocks at the police - yeah, that's just their way of being mischievous kids. They do it BECAUSE THEY CAN. Obviously no sane left-wing political demonstrator would set fire to your neighbour's car when you're living in a poor suburb. The central parts of Stockholm are completely calm, I can tell you. This is just an extreme case of what happens when segregation is allowed to run amok. Because of the combined effect of immigration and widening income gaps, these suburbs have become more and more dominated by poor recent immigrants. If you've ever been there, it's hard to not notice the "us versus them" feeling (82% of all people in Husby were born outside of Sweden). If you live in a tough situation when you're forced to learn a new language and fit into a new country, things will get worse if all you see every day is people in the same awful situation as you. Unlike those immigrants who want to be part of the larger society, the vandals have no ambitions and feel no shame when destroying property. Also note that those responsible for the vandalism is a tiny group of people.

 

The thing which allows this to explode in the press and cause a vicious circle is basically that Sweden currently has a right-wing government. Since 2006, there has been some cuts in welfare but above all a different focus - the focus during the economic downturn has been on companies and not on how the lower-class citizen will get by with his daily life. While Sweden has not been hit particularly hard, what has lifted Sweden's economy a bit has been one-time money from privatization sales, so the "real" economy is bit worse than what the national finances tells us. It's actually true that for a lot of people, things look worse today, but it's nothing dramatic. Unfortunately, most leftist groups and commenters don't talk about segregation and the economy but whine about police violence and even sympathize with the pointless violence of angry kids by labeling it a conscious protest.

 

This all makes it very easy to put the blame on someone. It makes for a great newspaper story. So the news agencies go there and pay the locals for "good pictures" and "good videos" of mayhem and destruction (no metal reference intended), causing more unrest, causing national news, causing the people to see themselves and their deeds on TV, causing even more trouble... If there had been a left-wing government in power, it would have been far harder to achieve the political narrative journalists and readers have been looking for.

 

There is also another part of it: in the last elections in 2010, a nationalist party called Sverigedemokraterna or "Sweden Democrats" entered Swedish parliament for the first time in history. This is a party which gets about 10% of votes in recent polls, but it's hated with an almost undemocratic passion by the other parts of the electorate - it's really hard to find anything comparable in other countries. I guess self-described "socialists" during the McCarthy era in the US would face similar persecution. But they're nothing like other really extreme nationalist parties in Europe, like for example Jobbik in Hungary. If they were in a different country, the Sweden Democrats would fit in perfectly in the conservative part of the Republican party in the US (or with Vladimir Putin in Russia). Every other Swedish party refuses to cooperate with them, and even refuse to vote together with them, effectively denying them any form of political influence. This polarization has led to that issues regarding immigration are completely taboo - if you want to discuss segregation you will risk political suicide. Acknowledging that there are problems in the integration approach has been falsely equated with wanting to restrict immigration. Coupled with the fact that both the largest political parties are the ones losing the most voters to the Sweden Democrats, there is a standstill on all such questions.

 

Since acknowledging that there are problems is necessary to take care of them, problem areas like Husby has been allowed to become worse entirely unchecked. Now as you know, I'm personally very much a fan of multiculturalism and the post-national society, but what is needed in Sweden, and indeed in Britain and in other European countries, is a better way of handling immigration. You can't dump all newcomers in a ghetto and expect it to become a nice place all by itself. It is needed a nationwide re-thinking of how to achieve integration, how to make use of immigrants rather than creating huge lawless refugee camps and waiting for things to sort themselves out. The laissez-faire approach has proven to be too slow to achieve integration, we need active measures to prevent segregation and unemployment/loitering.

[Drowsy Emperor]

^That was helpful, I could have read a dozen articles and I'd still know less about what was going on.

 

The inability of politicians to admit they're wrong will be our undoing.

[Labadal]

Segregation is unfortunately not exclusive to only Sweden. And areas like Husby exsisted long before Moderaterna & Co won the elections back then.

 

I usually group people that live in "gettho" areas in three groups:

 

1. Those that don't give a crap. Turn into criminals or abuse the wellfare system.

2. Those that try but end up with jobs that is usually looked down upon by others.

3. Those that go to school and think about their long term future.

 

Groups 1 & 2 are way bigger than group 3.

[BruceVC]

^That was helpful, I could have read a dozen articles and I'd still know less about what was going on.

 

The inability of politicians to admit they're wrong will be our undoing.

 

I agree that was a very informative post, thanks Rostere