Area of Effect

[Osvir]

Read some comments, haven't voted, but I thought of this for some reason (I think it's cinematic but at the same time I don't know).

Regardless, I think it's out of the scope but I would love for it have an effect. Maybe in a 3rd or 4th installment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ivwgE_t8a5s#t=62s

 

EDIT: 1:39 is where the shielding begins.

@Fireball spell, point of impact and then explosion outwards. But yeah it gets complicated. Shouldn't lightning strikes and cloud-likes target those in most metal?

Something I asked up a while ago that I think fits into this thread:

"Paint your AoE?"

- Grease Spell
- TnT barrel
- Enemies next to barrel
- Paint AoE to the barrel
- Light the fuse!
- Boom

Edited May 31, 2013 by Osvir

[Lephys]

For an example of less complexity/options adding to the game, look at Joshs ideas on weapons (that there are no terrible weapon types, e.g. mornstars are not automatly better than maces, daggers are reasonable mid and endgame unlike a lot of similar games)

The fact that one type of weapon isn't always better than another type of weapon isn't really a matter of complexity. The fact that one type of weapon will suck in certain situations and rock in others is a matter of complexity. I see little difference in having fireballs be more effective in some situations and less effective in others, and having weapons do the same. Why would you say that this idea about AOE spells is somehow crap, and point out Josh's weapon system design as not crap, when they're basically the same principle? I'm literally baffled. o_o

 

 

 

If you want more complexity why not model the foot and hand grip. Warriors have a chance of slipping when running due to arbitrary factors x,y, and z. And archers have a chance of dropping their bow if they are too sweaty. Also better cut the hair of all your characters hair short because you want to reduce the chances of hair getting into their eyes, and the range werewolves can smell them from. And your characters have a chance to get a cold or flu the longer they stay in the cold dungeon, and and and.................................................

 

New complexities do not make a better game if they are not well thought out.

Which is exactly why I'm supporting the well-thought-out-ness of complexities,

 

Would it be better to just have 1 AOE spell in the game and call it a day? 'Cause multiple are too complex? Obviously that would be a bit silly. So, they've got multiple in there, and they behave differently. So, why not have them behave like they should? If you try to throw a knife at an enemy who's around a corner, the wall corner blocks the knife from making contact. Same with an arrow fired at an enemy behind a tree. Why, then, would someone standing behind 7 other people take full damage from an exploding fireball on the opposite side of the 7 other people? Just because walls don't die when they stop fireballs and knives doesn't mean people don't have any of the same properties as walls.

 

It's just like what you said about weapons. Why is it stupid to have 17 different types of weapons in the game if 10 of them aren't viable? "Hey, this level 20 dagger only does like 10 damage, but this level 20 greatsword does 700!". That's silly, right? Why? because it's self-defeating. You're saying "Hey, you could use a dagger instead of a greatsword! The dagger is a unique and viable weapon option!" But, it's basically removed as an option when you make it suck in the later portion of the game.

 

Same thing with AOE spells. Why would you use Fireball instead of 1 of 16 other AOE spells when they all just do the same thing and there's never any incentive to use it rather than something else?

 

This suggestion is NO different from the complexity level of having some AOE spells fire in cones, and some fire in a circle, and maybe some even in a line (lightning bolt from some RPGs). If you fire a linear lightning bolt perpendicularly at a row of enemies, you're only going to hit one. If you fire it ALONG the line of enemies, you're going to hit ALL of them, with the same resources used. Boom. You have to make sure you're casting the spell in a tactically effective fashion. If you fire a cone spell at a group of scattered enemies, you're only going to hit a couple. If you use a radial spell, you're going to hit all of them within a 25-foot circle (rather than just one cone/pie-wedge of a circle). Boom. Effectiveness.

 

How is it unreasonably complicated, then, to say "This fireball is exploding outward in this circular targeting area, so if I cast this at a group of decently spread-out enemies, it will work best, and if I cast it at a group of clogged up enemies standing in a line, it won't work as well."?

 

It's as easy as "Hmm, it kinda looks like the front ones would be blocking the rest of them from the blast. Better cast it to the side of the group," or "better use a different spell that doesn't radiate out from the center, and, in stead, rains down from above, or strikes from the ground, or just produces a gas or wave of energy that hits everything in the circle no matter what."

 

No one FORCES you to stand there all day calculating the most effective pixel to click on with the Fireball spell, just like no one forces you to use your dagger instead of a hammer if there are a bunch of heavily-armored enemies about.

 

To make one more example, it's no different from elemental resistance: "Oh, these guys aren't going to be hurt by fire? Well, I shouldn't use Fireball, then. Better use Lightning Orb."

 

The fact that you have to consider what the effects of your choice will be before you finalize it is in NO way a bad thing. And it's not overly complicated, either. If there were 700 different behaviors for spells, that would be one thing. But, this topic is only suggesting adding essentially ONE more factor (that already exists in the rest of the game's mechanics) to spells that often don't pay any attention to it in existing games.

[teknoman2]

good idea. however i would not want it to take away time from more important features, so if they have time and can implement it im all for it, if not i can live without it

[jamoecw]

to keep from cover from being OP you could have things like lightning bolts actually increase the chance to hit when someone is in cover.  after all that big burly fighter in front of you decreases the resistance to the path to you.  then you add in cloud effects that aren't blocked by cover and you have a pseudo rock paper scissors thing going on.  i don't have the time to go into the physics of it, but even plastic can facilitate the flow of high voltages, so having you blockers with high lightning resist wouldn't make them less of a detriment for lightning attacks.

[Lephys]

@jamoecw:

 

You just made me think of awesome combo tactics!

 

That enemy's only wearing cloth and doesn't really have any especially-conducive material on them? Never fear! Have your Rogue friend put a few throwing stars in them! And maybe in several other enemies! Everyone peppered with throwing stars now has welcome signs for your Chain Lightning spell! 8D

 

Or, are those people lined up, maybe in a corridor, so you can't effectively hit more than the front person by chucking an alechemist's fire grenade at them? Never fear! Have your Ranger buddy take aim with Precise Shot at that grenade as it sails above that group, raining alchemist's fire down upon them as it shatters across the tops of their heads! 8D

[Archmage Silver]

Yes, but it's not a priority for me.

[Naurgalen]

I love the idea, even if its not a top priority.