Expanded Journal Content: Bestiaries, Biographies and Big ol' Encyclopedias

[Arsene Lupin]

Note:

 

 

I realize many of us are part of the crowdfunding initiative for both this game, Project Obsidian (which, I'll be honest, I find the most exciting all of the crowdfunded cRPGs) and InXile Entertainment's "Torment: Tides of Numenera." InXile's Torment forums have a very nice set of mechanics in place for contributing game ideas--a mechanic I have made full use of in the past several days. My basic line of thinking was this: What are the things that annoy the hell out of me in isometric RPGs? What are the things that I always want to see an RPGs but never do?

 

That train of thought led me to propose several ideas both mechanical and aesthetic. Because both Torment: Tides of Numenera and Project Eternity are very much being developed in the vein of classic, Infinity Engine cRPGs, I feel that these ideas are applicable--and, to a certain degree, vital--to both titles. As I mentioned, these are things that I believe belong in every RPG of good standing, and while some may read these notions of mine and think, "that's obvious," or, "that's too simple of a thing to bother proposing,"--and while I may agree with those sentiments--I still believe that some things simply need to be said.

 

I will do my best to fully articulate these ideas as best I can--which means I'll be writing as much as I feel necessary to clearly convey both my ideas in specific, as well as their emotional impetus. If you don't have the time or inclination to properly hear me out, please just avoid this thread.

 

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Expanded Journal Content: Bestiaries, Biographies and Big ol' Encyclopedias

Alternate title: Lore, Lore, Lore Galore

 

This idea is very simple, so simple, in fact, that I'm kind of shocked so few Western RPGs have gone with it--what I'm proposing here, after all, is a very common thing in Eastern games. Basically: expand the utility and content and functionality of the journal. In most WRPGs, the journal is simply a document the player can consult to see the progress states of various quests... and that's it. The only Western RPG I can recall that really tried to do anything more with the journal system was Planescape Torment.

 

Essentially, I want to see the "Journal" become a nexus for all kinds of information. All kinds of information. The quest journal is just the bare minimum. I want to see short biographies on all of the party members and prominent NPCs--and I want those biographies to be updated as we learn more about their pasts, and as we see their destinies unfold. I want to see a Bestiary, where I can view models, sprites or concept art of all the strange and wonderful animals, monsters and races in the game--with information about who and what and why and where they are. Final Fantasy XII had a fantastic Bestiary section, where once you killed an enemy it would be added to the Bestiary, and as you killed more and more, additional information would be added to the Bestiary entry--ranging from basic information about where the enemies could be found, to cool little pieces of lore. An in-depth Bestiary is a fantastic way to flesh out all the little details of a setting that simply can't be inserted into a game through narrative or dialog. Hell, I'd even love to see a "Library" style menu, where each time you open up a book in your inventory, the contents of that book are added to the Library menu so you can sell/dump the book, but still access the text. I also want to see detailed encyclopedias of key concepts and terms with regard to the setting, explaining those little details that are important--things that can't easily be addressed with the in-game narrative, yes, but also everything else. The Civpedia in Civilization games? That's what I want.

 

The journal screen should be a massive repository for lore in general. The benefits of fleshing out this system are, I think, obvious. First, it allows all of the crucial information to be located in a single space, which makes things much more accessible; second, it adds a great deal of depth to the setting--which, in turn, heightens the players' sense of immersion; and third, it provides a very important resource for players to remind themselves about information in the case of not being able to play the game for a long span of time. I can't count the number of times I've come back to an RPG I was in the middle of after several months, only to start the game over because I couldn't remember enough about the world, the setting, or the characters.

 

I'm not really sure how much extra effort this kind of expansion would involve. I get the feeling that very little "new" information would have to be created, as when constructing a world, this information about the setting and beings that inhabit it is very necessary. But assembling and organizing all of that information into a single set of menus could be fairly time-consuming. Nonetheless, this is a feature I really enjoy seeing.

 

[Greensleeve]

Well, Dragon Age: Origins had something similar in the Codex, as did Mass Effect.

 

I do, however, absolutely agree. FF XII's bestiary was fantastic and I felt it had so much to the game. Finding all that lore was great. So I agree, in-game lore databases are great. I suppose, however, that the campaign almanac is supposed to more or less serve the same purpose. 

 

So the question become: should we include all that information from the campaign almanac in the game as well, thus rendering that reward sort of... Use-impaired? Or is it worthwhile anyway? Personally, I say include it all. The almanac itself will probably feature artwork and such that makes it unique. More lore is never a bad thing. 

[rjshae]

The irritation I usually experience is in trying to find such-and-such a piece of information at a later date. Wouldn't it be nice if all the lore, codices, journal entries, and conversations were wikified and searchable so you can readily locate information. Or it could use pop-ups on mouse-overs.

[Lephys]

The irritation I usually experience is in trying to find such-and-such a piece of information at a later date. Wouldn't it be nice if all the lore, codices, journal entries, and conversations were wikified and searchable so you can readily locate information. Or it could use pop-ups on mouse-overs.

 

That would be pretty... wikid...

[Arsene Lupin]

The irritation I usually experience is in trying to find such-and-such a piece of information at a later date. Wouldn't it be nice if all the lore, codices, journal entries, and conversations were wikified and searchable so you can readily locate information. Or it could use pop-ups on mouse-overs.

 That's why I mentioned the Civpedia. IT really is THE example to go by... fully indexed & searchable, set up just like a wiki so if a term appears in an article that has its own page, it's a link.

[Greensleeve]

 

The irritation I usually experience is in trying to find such-and-such a piece of information at a later date. Wouldn't it be nice if all the lore, codices, journal entries, and conversations were wikified and searchable so you can readily locate information. Or it could use pop-ups on mouse-overs.

 That's why I mentioned the Civpedia. IT really is THE example to go by... fully indexed & searchable, set up just like a wiki so if a term appears in an article that has its own page, it's a link.

 

 

Didn't ToEE have something similar? I didn't manage to play that game for very long due to the ages it took to pick up small quests in Hommlet and actually get started with the game (not to mention the pretty awful balance design in those early stages), but I seem to remember there being something like that in it. 

[JFSOCC]

If learning lore feels like work I won't enjoy it.

 

With this I mean, don't dump a book on me. Instead let me explore an ancient ruins, let the ruins themselves show insights into the society which ones called it home. With the shape and purpose of the buildings, the machinery and what it was used for. Require me to use them to beat a puzzle unrelated to the lore, and if I pay attention it will give me some insight into who lived there first. If I find drawings of bears on the wall, in all sorts of poses, and I come across a throne room, throne has bear skulls underneath it, the walls have rotting bear rugs on them. There's a bear-skull helmet I can find. A mural shows a figure in a powerpose with a bear fighting on his side, enemies failing before him, then I'm pretty sure I'll get a good idea about the people I'm dealing with.

 

If I enter an ancient castle ruins and I see torture devices everywhere, and secret rooms and corridors with spy holes, a dungeon filled with emaciated corpses, but beautiful (now wild) gardens at ground level and at elevation, you'll be pretty sure it was a powerful elite which ruled in a place where there was competition with other noble elites.

 

If I find a clearing in the forest with a stream running through it, and 5 black and 5 white stones crossing it, some of the trees have black bark and some have white bark, I'll know this was a cultivated and ceremonial spot for those who felt the need to be close to nature.

 

You can show a lot of lore without saying a single word.

 

 

tl;dr: Involve me and show me, don't just tell me.

[Arsene Lupin]

Ideally, all forms of storytelling should be in an RPG in equal measure: environmental storytelling (what you described); direct storytelling (the narrative); indirect storytelling (characterization); and peripheral storytelling (extra written lore, books, bestiary stuff, etc.).

 

The point isn't to bombard the player with text and information... it's to allow the player to delve deeper into the setting, to learn things that would not or could not be revealed through other storytelling methods.

[Sensuki]

I liked the Witcher 1's journal system (although I would forego visual quest tracking in game).

[Cultist]

What I HATED in Dragon age: Origins' journal is that it's a wall of...journal topics. Even alphabetical or thematic organizing would make it way better.